New Races: Ogre (H) and Vrykul (A) - All the reasons why this should happen!

[Lane]

I tend to agree, especially since they basically cast the humans out for being the runts and unworthy. Why would they then side with them?

According to events in Howling Fjord that wasn't a globally accepted policy. There were vrykul couples who had to abandon their children or else they'd be slain. Also, a big theme among the vrykul culture is proving ones worth, which the humans have consistently done. Story-wise, I don't see how Horde has a greater claim on vrykul than Alliance does.

I'm not sure why more Hordies aren't on board with Kvaldir, who I've loved since I first saw them in Borean Tundra. Given that they're essentially undead vrykul they would fit perfectly as the counterpart while still offering all of the vrykul awesomeness.

While Ogres would be cool, I think the next step is to add more customization to the current races in terms of sub-races.

Agreed! Also, frankly, Worgen & Goblins need their model revamp, especially the former if Greymane is going to be a story focus. I like the idea of Vrykul/Kvaldir because most of the work's been done already, but when it comes to new races please fix the old ones first. Sadly, I don't think Blizzard considers additional character options a good use of their resources. :\

I think it would be super cool to have Dryads (A) and Centaurs (H) as playable races.

That's been on my wish list for years. Unfortunately, Cataclysm seems to have all but wiped out centaurs.

I don't understand why people want vrykul for the Alliance. I mean, the Alliance is quite boring as it is, with only night elf, draenei and pandaren moving from the human, small human, smaller human, human werewolf theme.

Vrykul are so much more badass looking, especially the females. This is even more true after the model update where all the human females were given the same 'pleasant' Stepford face. Even just giving the Vrykul hairstyles to players would be a nice addition. As for the worgen, they were rushed badly. The males are okay, I guess, but the females have always looked terrible. I don't know how many people get "badass" from female worgen, but I sure don't. :P

My biggest complaint about Alliance these days is lack of or rapidly diminishing badassness, in all things, but that's another topic.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

When only 1 of 7 possible races is aesthetically appealing to more than half the playerbase, Blizzard fucked up somewhere. The Alliance has more diversity amongst the races. Goblin and Panda are both less than 3% of Horde players. Tauren and Troll are at like.. 10% each, Orc and Undead usually drift around 15% each. That leaves 47% of the remaining players as BE. As in, there are -almost- as many Blood Elves as every other Horde race combined.

Realmpop.com isn't displaying Demon Hunters properly yet, but prior to DH BE were still like 30%-35% depending on server, and over 50% on RP realms. If the other races are so absolutely terrible to play as that BEs are the only race holding the Horde together Blizzard needs to reinvent these races stat - I think unhunched variants and better looking females would do wonders. If it weren't for Druid Tauren and Troll would be less than 5% of the playerbase as well.

A good-looking, lore-spoiled, humanoid race like the Vrykul would do wonders for the Horde.

"Diversity among the races" isn't a real issue.

[Thimagryn]

The only race I see being added to the game is Naga, remade in some playable form that makes sense (mounts, pants variations etc).

A new race has to be very different from existing archetypes. Vrykul and Ogres might be cool lore races, but they're not very different from races we already have. It'd have to be something unique and flavourful, and I think the Naga are the only ones that really fit the bill for that.

[Syegfryed]

like, if blizz add another pretty little purple race like belves again on the horde, It would be more harmful than beneficial, factions are already balanced, if you add another elf be like( aka pretty sexy kawai whatever), the balance goes to space if people start to move to horde to play then, and if not, lets be honest, people will not sto play Blood elves, and like @Lemonpartyfan said, balance between races isnt a issue

also thank god blizz dont care about this shit of pretty races or if they will not be popular, so we have goblins, you playing then or not

The only race I see being added to the game is Naga, remade in some playable form that makes sense (mounts, pants variations etc).

A new race has to be very different from existing archetypes. Vrykul and Ogres might be cool lore races, but they're not very different from races we already have. It'd have to be something unique and flavourful, and I think the Naga are the only ones that really fit the bill for that.

Naga replacing vrkul on the alliance side could work, i see they and the night elf making peace, but ogres are very different from orcs, i dont know why people think this, first they are not green and they could have two mother foking heads

[Pony Soldier]

Vrykuls won't work for Alliance for a couple of reasons in my opinion. First they are savage, uncivilized vikings. I just can't see them walking/sitting around in a place like Stormwind. I mean I'm sure Blizzard could make up something so that it'll make sense but then it'll undermine them and make them look weaker and softer when they shouldn't and also since it's not their style. Second, I'm pretty sure they HATE humans with a passion. Humans are like mutant midget babies to them. In Howling Fjord I remember there being a quest where it showed one of the Vrykuls having a "defected" baby which turned out to be one of the first or THE first human to be born. The mother was basically exiled (I can't remember exactly) for it and I think they wanted to kill the baby but I think it somehow was able to escape with the help of someone. So with that said Vrykuls would be better suited for the Horde. I think they'd be best buds with the orcs.

For Alliance (people will probably strongly disagree with me) I say it should be the Tuskaar race. Not only do I think they are awesome but I think they would fit the Alliance very well. Just their culture and lifestyle I think would mesh very well with the various cultures of the Alliance. Not only that but it's time for the Alliance to get some non-human/elf race for once and give the Horde some more normal looking ones.

[Sentynel]

Both should be Neutral.

[Syegfryed]

Vrykuls won't work for Alliance for a couple of reasons in my opinion. First they are savage, uncivilized vikings. I just can't see them walking/sitting around in a place like Stormwind. I mean I'm sure Blizzard could make up something so that it'll make sense but then it'll undermine them and make them look weaker and softer when they shouldn't and also since it's not their style. Second, I'm pretty sure they HATE humans with a passion. Humans are like mutant midget babies to them. In Howling Fjord I remember there being a quest where it showed one of the Vrykuls having a "defected" baby which turned out to be one of the first or THE first human to be born. The mother was basically exiled (I can't remember exactly) for it and I think they wanted to kill the baby but I think it somehow was able to escape with the help of someone. So with that said Vrykuls would be better suited for the Horde. I think they'd be best buds with the orcs.

For Alliance (people will probably strongly disagree with me) I say it should be the Tuskaar race. Not only do I think they are awesome but I think they would fit the Alliance very well. Just their culture and lifestyle I think would mesh very well with the various cultures of the Alliance. Not only that but it's time for the Alliance to get some non-human/elf race for once and give the Horde some more normal looking ones.

tuskar cant leave nortrend cause they cant live without the cold, they die

and, yes, vrkul are savage uncivilized vikings, this could be great for the alliance lore, so they stop looking like white knight of light and morality, diversity friend, worgens do that but only a bit, they are more civlized gilnean humans than wolves

and worgens are only crazy savage werewolves, who act like animals pior to cataclysm, and now they are some fucking awesome playable race, blizz can make work.

and not all vrykul want kill they children, many of then goes away because they dont want to do, also, much time has pass, the baby killers died, and many of then dont even know that anymore

[Thimagryn]

Naga replacing vrkul on the alliance side could work, i see they and the night elf making peace, but ogres are very different from orcs, i dont know why people think this, first they are not green and they could have two mother foking heads

Even as an expansion feature, Ogre race doesn't really sound that glorious.

Like others have said about the Blood Elf pretty race thing, Ogres would be one of the least picked races for that same reasoning. I can't even see them having a decent looking female model at this point, even with all the chances they got to expand the Ogres in Draenor. Ogres are different, but they lack a cool aesthetic to be chosen as a playable race. They're great in a supplementary sense, much like how Gnomes add flavour to the Alliance. But I doubt that they would go the route of adding in lore races for the sake of it. The lore was already set up to add High Elves to the Alliance and Ogres for the Horde, but that never really happened for various game design reasons.

[Syegfryed]

Even as an expansion feature, Ogre race doesn't really sound that glorious.

Like others have said about the Blood Elf pretty race thing, Ogres would be one of the least picked races for that same reasoning. I can't even see them having a decent looking female model at this point, even with all the chances they got to expand the Ogres in Draenor. Ogres are different, but they lack a cool aesthetic to be chosen as a playable race. They're great in a supplementary sense, much like how Gnomes add flavour to the Alliance. But I doubt that they would go the route of adding in lore races for the sake of it. The lore was already set up to add High Elves to the Alliance and Ogres for the Horde, but that never really happened for various game design reasons.

but rly, whats the matter if they will not be playable like blood elves? who cares? no other race could ever be much playable like then, so we will never add more races due the fact they are not pretty like blood elves? if we think this way we would never get goblins, and look how the lore of the horde grow, even if many people dont play, that only a option, we are not forced to roll one

and like i said on the other topic to make they popular is easy, just give a new option of class, like paladins or even druids

and game designers almost add ogres on cataclysm, but they chose goblins in the end, so its still a possibility

[mizeri]

if A gets vrykuls (just big humans) the H should get Rexxars race (just big brown orcs)

[Syegfryed]

if A gets vrykuls (just big humans) the H should get Rexxars race (just big brown orcs)

its not exaclty a race, yet, there are to few to be playable, the clan moknothal who have the half breeds are on ountlad, and are to few, many of then are just orcs or ogres lore-wise, and the rest half breed( and they are not brown, they are? rexxar isnt) overall, its better go for ogres with rexxar for racial leader for a bit

[mizeri]

its not exaclty a race, yet, there are to few to be playable, the clan moknothal who have the half breeds are on ountlad, and are to few, many of then are just orcs or ogres lore-wise, and the rest half breed( and they are not brown, they are? rexxar isnt) overall, its better go for ogres with rexxar for racial leader for a bit

well lorewise they can say you are the chosen one that left outland to help the horde, or you broke away from them to seek adventure.

[Thimagryn]

True, anything is a possibility. Despite what anyone would have thought or predicted, we had yet another leather melee DPS/Tank class added to the game.

I'm basing my own opinions on my interpretation of Blizzard's design choices for races.

Originally we had Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves for Alliance; Orcs, Tauren and Forsaken for Horde. These are the original 6 races announced pre-alpha, and further indicated by each of the major cities in the game.

Why these races? Why not High Elves instead of Night Elves and Forsaken instead of Trolls like in Warcraft 3? If I were to guess, it's because Night Elves and Forsaken add a completely different flavour to the Alliance and Horde as we knew it. Night Elves bring in an entire culture, while Forsaken explores a different aspect of the Undead that wasn't as simple as the hive-minded Scourge.

Gnomes and Trolls were added soon after, later in the alpha. Why these two races? Why not High Elves and Ogres? Why not Gnomes and Goblins? My interpretation of their design is that they chose these races to fill the gaps of the initial 3. Humans and Orcs are the faction staples; well rounded starters. Tauren and Dwarves represent strength. Night Elves are an agile race, while Forsaken are magical in nature. Unlike High Elves, Gnomes bring an intelligent, magical element without overlap. Trolls bring in the agile race component to the Horde. Ogres would only compete with the large Tauren race.

Further down the line, they added Blood Elves to the Horde to add a pretty race for them. Goblins were added as a diminutive, whimsical race, which the Horde was lacking. For the Alliance, they were given the large-framed blue-skinned Draenei (as opposed to a monstrous Broken Draenei that we only knew of). The Worgen later added a monstrous component to the Alliance, somewhat as a response to Horde having a pretty race.

Part of understanding why these races were added is also asking why other races weren't. There were many chances for us to get a new or unique race in every expansion. Why not Furbolgs for Alliance as the 'monstrous' race? Why not Hozen as a comical race? And there's really no right and wrong reason to any of them. But if we were to apply some of these design reasons to potential races like the Ogres and Vrykul, there's simply better choices out there to expand what we know of the Alliance and Horde through a radical new race (like Naga) then something we would already expect and are comfortably familiar with.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Even as an expansion feature, Ogre race doesn't really sound that glorious.

Like others have said about the Blood Elf pretty race thing, Ogres would be one of the least picked races for that same reasoning. I can't even see them having a decent looking female model at this point, even with all the chances they got to expand the Ogres in Draenor. Ogres are different, but they lack a cool aesthetic to be chosen as a playable race. They're great in a supplementary sense, much like how Gnomes add flavour to the Alliance. But I doubt that they would go the route of adding in lore races for the sake of it. The lore was already set up to add High Elves to the Alliance and Ogres for the Horde, but that never really happened for various game design reasons.

I'd roll Ogres. If you forego the whole new starting area thing.. I doubt it'd take too much development time to be honest.

[Thimagryn]

As explained above, race decisions come from game design necessities. Development time isn't really an issue, considering Draenei and Worgen we know today are completely revamped from their NPCs counterparts, in both lore and visual design. Blizzard isn't one to pick the easy route and add a race for the sake of fan service. They want the addition of a race to be a full blown feature that will draw attention from the entire audience.

[Syegfryed]

Why these races? Why not High Elves instead of Night Elves and Forsaken instead of Trolls like in Warcraft 3? If I were to guess, it's because Night Elves and Forsaken add a completely different flavour to the Alliance and Horde as we knew it. Night Elves bring in an entire culture, while Forsaken explores a different aspect of the Undead that wasn't as simple as the hive-minded Scourge.

thats not that hard to understand, everything who happens on vanilla happened after warcraft 3, night elves, undeads, the horde and the alliance are the 4 forces you control on war3, so those races needs to be in the spot first, taurens have more lore related already, with mulgore caerne and the tribes, trolls did not have that, even vol'jin was not so explored, so thats why they came before

and thats gradual, they need to do things first than others, there is no conspiracy behind

but if we were to apply some of these design reasons to potential races like the Ogres and Vrykul, there's simply better choices out there to expand what we know of the Alliance and Horde through a radical new race (like Naga) then something we would already expect and are comfortably familiar with.

what, but, what make a more radical new race, and could expand more the lore of the alliance than vrykul? ( apart from nagas sure) they are totally diferent than humans, they could bring salvagery and a viking like theme to a faction of "knights of the light and morality" its like water to wine, alliance could grow in lore with this heavly, even i would make a alliance

and im sorry but i cant see no other race as a better choice for the horde than ogres, maybe is biased i dunno, but the only ones i think maybe could, are the quilboar, but meeh, not seem so good to the overall

Gnomes and Trolls were added soon after, later in the alpha. Why these two races? Why not High Elves and Ogres? Why not Gnomes and Goblins? My interpretation of their design is that they chose these races to fill the gaps of the initial 3. Humans and Orcs are the faction staples; well rounded starters. Tauren and Dwarves represent strength. Night Elves are an agile race, while Forsaken are magical in nature. Unlike High Elves, Gnomes bring an intelligent, magical element without overlap. Trolls bring in the agile race component to the Horde. Ogres would only compete with the large Tauren race.

the high elves flee to outland and many of then left alliance, ogres did not have to much lore like trolls and taurens, goblins after war 2 become neutral, so something needs to happens, there is always reasons for then not be playable in that time, its not like "we dont want ogres", again metzen and other devs said they want nagas and ogres be playable someday, and since they talk this about goblins too, there is a possibility

yes sometimes they prefer another race instead, like in cataclysm, but they are not totally scraped

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Blizzard isn't one to pick the easy route and add a race for the sake of fan service. They want the addition of a race to be a full blown feature that will draw attention from the entire audience.

well, thats happens with belves worgens and goblins, and if i remember well people ask for draeneis too

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

As explained above, race decisions come from game design necessities. Development time isn't really an issue, considering Draenei and Worgen we know today are completely revamped from their NPCs counterparts, in both lore and visual design. Blizzard isn't one to pick the easy route and add a race for the sake of fan service. They want the addition of a race to be a full blown feature that will draw attention from the entire audience.

Not really sure why you think Ogres wouldn't, especially since many of the WoW players probably played WC the RTS.

Not only that, I can't think of many races that could be a 'full blown feature that will draw the attention of the entire audience" anyway. Any of the options listed in this thread would be about as likely to be interesting to players as Ogres. What makes any of the others better options? Nagas? "Eww, weird fish people with no legs" 'Eww, not pretty enough" .. basically the same possibilities Ogres would bring. But;

Ogres are already in the Horde.
Ogres fit culturally and thematically.
Ogres have already existed in the game since WC2, as being associated with the Horde.

Most/all of the other options wouldn't compete with Ogres on most of the levels. It'd just be preference after that. Some people want Nagas, which isn't a "bad" choice, but Nagas certainly don't make MORE sense than Ogres. And neither would crazier ideas like Dryads or Centaur. (Dryads, being forest creatures that likely NEED to live there, and Centaur being the mortal enemy of Tauren for so long...)

[Rhlor]

very few people playing with ogres because they are ugly and stupid. Nagas are more interesting

[Traveler Voltin]

As explained above, race decisions come from game design necessities. Development time isn't really an issue, considering Draenei and Worgen we know today are completely revamped from their NPCs counterparts, in both lore and visual design. Blizzard isn't one to pick the easy route and add a race for the sake of fan service. They want the addition of a race to be a full blown feature that will draw attention from the entire audience.

goblins would like to say hi

[Syegfryed]

very few people playing with ogres because they are ugly and stupid. Nagas are more interesting

very few people playing with nagas because they are ugly and fish stupid like creatures, Ogres are more interesting

see? both can play this game