The George Lucas versions of Episodes VII-IX we will never get to see

[Tijuana]

So as the story goes George Lucas handed over a fully completed script for Episode VII as well as at least a direction for VIII & IX.

It really sucks that was included in the sale. Because now they can bastardize it and use it as source material, and it can be and will be so far from its original inception.

Personally I really didn't like Episode VII. I hated it when I first saw it, saw it a few more times, liked it for a while, and now its probably on the same rotation as the made for TV Ewok movies, ya I'll fire it up every now and again, but it definitely won't be my go to for my Star Wars fix.

I would just really love to see what George's original vision was.

ACT 1: Pointless back story that has nothing to do with anything. Also has an annoying muppet.
ACT 2: Spoil every coming thing called Star Wars and ruin the biggest surprise in movie history.
ACT 3: Something something political intrigue with no clear reason for the evil doer to be evil.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't like star wars at all until the force awakens. Does that make me a bad person?

It probably just means you are one of those weird people who like there to be good acting in movies.

[Deleted]

I don't get how you can be a fan of the original trilogy and not like Episode 7. They managed to make a George Lucas film better than George Lucas can himself, I guess the fanboys are just wetting their knickers over that fact.

[Tijuana]

I don't get how you can be a fan of the original trilogy and not like Episode 7. They managed to make a George Lucas film better than George Lucas can himself, I guess the fanboys are just wetting their knickers over that fact.

So, you are a fan of every remake in movie history? Because, they tend to bomb pretty big, or at best not be taken seriously.

I actually like TFA. But, the criticisms of it being a remake are pretty valid.

[Damajin]

None of the Star Wars movies relied on merch sales. This is just some very strange logic you're trying to apply to it. The Star Wars merchandise is a whole franchise on its own. It's not that the films are bad, it's that they've inspired generations of children, every time a new trilogy is released. They've influenced game and toy purchases forever.

Force Awakens, Phantom Menace and A New Hope are 3 of the highest grossing movies of all time. I believe all 3 are in the top 10 highest domestic grossing movies of all time, still (not so sure on adjusted, as that's a difficult barometer to judge, but all 3 of the prequel movies make the top 100, only A New Hope does on adjusted from the original trilogy).





Pick one.



Wasn't that your whole reasoning around them not being kids films because you didn't like them?



That's my freaking point. They're clearly aimed at kids, because they were designed for kids.



I guess it's just a coincidence that the majority of critics at the time compared the movie directly to the likes of Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and even The Wizard of Oz. These are all shows/films/stories for children. Most people can recognise this fact.



I don't think he's actually had to 'redeclare' anything at all. He's revised his own works for absolutely banal reasons, to try and add to the entertainment factor for kids, but he's never changed what he was originally aiming to do.

Fact - Star Wars: A New Hope was originally going to be a 'G' rated movie. Lucas added two brief scenes of violence to the film to guarantee a 'PG' rating, as they didn't want to lose the teen demographic with a movie that was out and out for kids.

George Lucas interview, 1977:

The prequels are bad, under both subjective and objective analysis. To quote you for a moment here:

fact.

Really, none of the prequels relied on merch sales to keep them going? Phantom Menace was so bad and was taking so much flack outside of the paid endorsement/review world that if it wasn't cranking out merch and grocery promos then it would have died off in the first few weeks of release. As someone whose sales job at the time involved doing buy ins at local and national chains for Phantom Menace themed displays among other promos my company had contracts for we were flat out told that our success was helping sustain the movie itself. That's why you see an escalation in crossover products between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones which they obviously never broke away from because we saw it in Sith and we saw it go into overdrive for Force Awakens.

All those movies were marketed extensively and the merch for them was insane but with how bad Menace was there was a definite shift to using the merch to propel and sustain ticket sales that flat out wasn't necessary with the original trilogy which was so damn good that they were able to release it in about 5000 different box sets and collectors sets in the time between Jedi and Menace and have it keep steady and reliably good numbers. The worst hit the original trilogy took was due to the Ewoks and that was a small one, and completely negligible due to their small role in Jedi, otherwise you didn't hear bad shit about them except from the diehard Trekkies who didn't like the competition Star Wars brought.

Of course it was compared to Buck Rogers and the like, those were the adventure serials that Lucas has flat out admitted were the major inspiration for Star Wars and has been adamant in citing since the beginning, that's writers simply sourcing the direct statements of the creator. Your statement here is flat out irrelevant, as I said that it's no surprise to anyone that when you make a traditional action adventure movie that it's going to have as a default a strong appeal to children, that's what you naturally expect from the simple bread and butter of the genre.

He's had to redeclare plenty over the years, as his tinkerings in the special editions created a ton of controversy that he's felt compelled to skewer in his own way, incidentally enough ending up debunked by actors with the original scripts posting excerpts on social media and the like. Greedo shot first, is that what you're saying George? Nah. Thanks twitter and actors who kept those scripts to shoot that stupid statement down, among others.

Of course he added stuff to bump up the rating to not lose that demographic, he's primarily a businessman and gets pissed off when he misses out on avenues to increase the business side of things. There's 30 years of interviews with him that show that rather than being some artistic genius he's a businessman with a good head for a story and world creation but when it comes to the social and spiritual side of his creations he is a total deadpan and unable to approach it the right way, aka all the flat and lifeless dialogue and character interactions we get in the prequels.

[eschatological]

The Ewoks are cute and furry, but at least they did something. They expressed a belief system, thinking C3PO was a god, they were good scouts, and they fought hard and lost their own in battle. Their primitive weapons ultimately prevailed in their heavily wooded planet where Imperial Walkers had trouble navigating the terrain. It was a little ridiculous that any number of them could outdo a Stormtrooper with a blaster, but that's more a testament to how ridiculously incompetent Stormtroopers were in the original trilogy. They were integral in winning the fight on Endor.

Compare that to Jar Jar and the Gungans. Jar Jar was despised and ridiculed as a fool even in his own society. IIRC, he was exiled, even. His comic relief wasn't from the iconic culture clash between space-dwelling humans and a primitive bear species, but prat falls and gibberish. Then, he goes with the Jedi to try and convince the Gungans to go to war. He fails at this. Qui Gon has to actually use the Jedi Mind Trick to convince a whole race of people to go to war.....and then what was the war for? The war was between disposable droids who didn't even bother to land near the city, they were, afaik, across the planet (since the Jedi had to travel THROUGH the core to get to Amidala's city). Why the war was taking place there is beyond me. Why they even needed a distraction is beyond me, since there were still Trade Federation troops in the city, and the troops in the war were landing so far away for.......what reason? It's not like the Gungans forced them into a fight before they could get to the city, that's where the army was encamped. And then ultimately, the Gungans are led to the slaughter, only to win by Jar Jar's sheer incompetence and a prat fall into a Rube Goldberg-esque chain of events.

That's why Jar Jar was worse than Ewoks.

[A dot Ham]

I don't get how you can be a fan of the original trilogy and not like Episode 7. They managed to make a George Lucas film better than George Lucas can himself, I guess the fanboys are just wetting their knickers over that fact.

It's definitely one of my least favorites.

I would have preferred a weak plot, cheesy dialogue, and poor acting... as long as it was something we hadn't seen before.

It definitely doesn't have re-run potential.

What it really boils down to is that George Lucas's vision was missing from TFA.

Say what you want about his abilities to write and direct... but he created and envisioned a world, a fantasy, that we can't get enough of. We want to keep coming back to it and it doesn't matter if we are annoyed by the other stuff... as long as we are back in it.

Now granted a lot of what was originally created was because of the vision of Ralph McQuarrie, how much of that was influenced by George Lucas's writing? Who knows. Perhaps George Lucas's real talent is in art direction and talent acquisition?

While it was great to see some nods to original Ralph McQuarrie concept art (quite a few actually) I very much doubt that had the man been alive and still working... he would have drawn what we saw in TFA.

Its really hard to express SPECIFICALLY what it is. It like taking a picture with a 1MP camera vs a 20 MP camera... does one image look better? Undeniably yes. But its still the same image.

If I had to put my finger on it, knowing what I know about the making of TFA and the special features on the blu-ray it just seems like there were far too many cooks in the kitchen. Ultimately the product that was produced was Disney's flagship of Star Wars... look this is how WE do Star Wars, and it looks good. But I'm pretty sure I've seen that before.

I look forward to the other products Disney will offer us from the Star Wars universe... but TFA fell a little flat. It joins episode II on my shuffle... a handful of scenes worth watching... and then meh.

[Kokolums]

That's part of the problem. Star Wars was never a kid's movie. Just like Ghostbusters was not a kid's movie. Yet kids still liked them both. You don't need to make movies specifically directed at children for them to be successful with children lol. But when you do, you also alienate adult fans.

Spielberg released a similar film this year called the BFG. It was aimed at little kids. The difference was Star Wars has a large adult following. If the BFG somehow had a huge adult following, Spielberg would have been skewered eternally for it.

[eschatological]

-snip-

I'm sorry, what? It has quite a bit of re-run ability. I've already watched it 3 times myself, twice since it came out on DVD.

It has the emotion, the sense of adventure, the largeness of the Force surrounding everyone, some goofy antics, and the struggle of family and finding one's own identity. It's classic Star Wars. The plot elements echoed all three of the original movies, yes, and they did that specifically because it was a reintroduction to the universe. I don't think many franchises completely re-invent the wheel when they're supposedly picking up a story some 30 years (in universe) later.

[A dot Ham]

I'm sorry, what? It has quite a bit of re-run ability. I've already watched it 3 times myself, twice since it came out on DVD.

It has the emotion, the sense of adventure, the largeness of the Force surrounding everyone, some goofy antics, and the struggle of family and finding one's own identity. It's classic Star Wars. The plot elements echoed all three of the original movies, yes, and they did that specifically because it was a reintroduction to the universe. I don't think many franchises completely re-invent the wheel when they're supposedly picking up a story some 30 years (in universe) later.

BOLD:
Could this movie stand alone and in and of itself enthrall a new generation of Star Wars fans... WITHOUT the previous existence of the franchise and all that has been done since 1977?

Honestly, I don't think so.

UNDERLINED:
Did we need a reintroduction? No.

The reason it did so well in the box office was not because it was some amazing stand alone film. Its because of the existing fan base. I know 1 person that went and saw this movie without seeing the other 6. Now granted my social circle has dramatically decreased now that I am 30 and married with 2 kids. But this "new crowd" that the movie is supposed to target and enchant... is rather small, and likely would have seen it whether or not they specifically targeted them with a reboot/remake/"reintroduction".

If you were trying to defend it week one and tried to convince me it echoed the original trilogy. I might be inclined to listen. But the movie has been out now for quite some time... filming for episode VIII ended in July... point is whether you are a jaded fan, or seeing episode 7, and watching 1-6 for the first time. You can spot the many parallels specifically between 4 and 7. If you're okay with that fine... for me and many others its irksome.

[Shinzai]

The prequels are bad, under both subjective and objective analysis. To quote you for a moment here:

Really, none of the prequels relied on merch sales to keep them going? Phantom Menace was so bad and was taking so much flack outside of the paid endorsement/review world that if it wasn't cranking out merch and grocery promos then it would have died off in the first few weeks of release. As someone whose sales job at the time involved doing buy ins at local and national chains for Phantom Menace themed displays among other promos my company had contracts for we were flat out told that our success was helping sustain the movie itself. That's why you see an escalation in crossover products between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones which they obviously never broke away from because we saw it in Sith and we saw it go into overdrive for Force Awakens.

All those movies were marketed extensively and the merch for them was insane but with how bad Menace was there was a definite shift to using the merch to propel and sustain ticket sales that flat out wasn't necessary with the original trilogy which was so damn good that they were able to release it in about 5000 different box sets and collectors sets in the time between Jedi and Menace and have it keep steady and reliably good numbers. The worst hit the original trilogy took was due to the Ewoks and that was a small one, and completely negligible due to their small role in Jedi, otherwise you didn't hear bad shit about them except from the diehard Trekkies who didn't like the competition Star Wars brought.

The Phantom Menace took over a billion dollars in box office revenue worldwide. It's still one of the highest grossing films of all time.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm

[eschatological]

The Phantom Menace took over a billion dollars in box office revenue worldwide. It's still one of the highest grossing films of all time.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm

Oh man, and the Transformers movies have made a billion dollars too, so what? By that standard, TFA did even better, so it must be a better movie just because of that, right?

- - - Updated - - -

BOLD:
Could this movie stand alone and in and of itself enthrall a new generation of Star Wars fans... WITHOUT the previous existence of the franchise and all that has been done since 1977?

Honestly, I don't think so.

UNDERLINED:
Did we need a reintroduction? No.

The reason it did so well in the box office was not because it was some amazing stand alone film. Its because of the existing fan base. I know 1 person that went and saw this movie without seeing the other 6. Now granted my social circle has dramatically decreased now that I am 30 and married with 2 kids. But this "new crowd" that the movie is supposed to target and enchant... is rather small, and likely would have seen it whether or not they specifically targeted them with a reboot/remake/"reintroduction".

If you were trying to defend it week one and tried to convince me it echoed the original trilogy. I might be inclined to listen. But the movie has been out now for quite some time... filming for episode VIII ended in July... point is whether you are a jaded fan, or seeing episode 7, and watching 1-6 for the first time. You can spot the many parallels specifically between 4 and 7. If you're okay with that fine... for me and many others its irksome.

Again, you're speaking nonsense. It was definitely a reintroduction, and a needed re-assurance after the prequels took a radically different approach (if you want to be generous, most people would have called them disastrous derailments of the Star Wars franchise).

Is it supposed to stand alone? Of course not. It's literally searching for the last Jedi from RotJ, and figuring out why the "win" hasn't felt like much of a win. You saying "no" to whether we need a reintroduction is subjective, at best. From both a financial, and artistic viewpoint, Abrams set out to reintroduce the franchise. Every piece of media before the release of TFA stressed how they were going away from CGI as much as possible, and emphasizing practical effects. That coverage was very specific in its purpose.

You know only one person who hadn't seen Star Wars because that's how fucking ubiquitous these movies are. My mother has seen Star Wars, and she's a 60 year old Indian woman whose never seen anything else even approaching sci-fi in her life.

[Shinzai]

Oh man, and the Transformers movies have made a billion dollars too, so what? By that standard, TFA did even better, so it must be a better movie just because of that, right?

Wow, what a cool and snarky comment. Consider me burned, but first point out any place where I said it was a good film, or the figure was indicative of that?

Now, explain what demographic you think actually fills out the majority of ticket purchases for these films, who do you feel these movies are aimed at? I would simply suggest that these films are incredibly popular with children, who in turn generate the largest amount of ticket sales.

Transformers movies do amazingly well with kids. They do not rate well or generate interest with most adults and after the first one, most fans of the original series no longer had any interest in them.

The Force Awakens on the other hand, has generated twice the box office of any the compared films. It scores well with adults and kids. It was pretty much the best possible restart for the series and has much wider appeal than the prequels.

[bloodmoth13]

Having nods to episode IV is fine, mimicking its plot though on the other hand is a crime.

id rate it below average to be frank. main character was horrible, main villain was horrible, side kick was useless, plot was a copy pasta, phasma was about as impressive as your run of the mill stormtrooper, i didnt care for a single planet they were on... trying to think of an alien character in the movie that wasnt the grose dwarf or general ackbar... nope dont care about any of that... jakku may as well have been tatooine (honestly thought it was for a while there), would have been an anchor between both trilogies that 2 separate generations grew up with, but instead its jakku, and there wasnt really any reason to feel invested in the rebels, like, why the fuck were they rebels? against what? the other rebel faction that intends to overthrow the new governmental system that arose after episode 6? the 'rebels' were only rebels in name, they intended to enforce the government not fight them.

the more i analyze the movie the less i like about it, they dropped the ball on so many things, the plot was so lazy they even made a joke about it in the movie, the space pirates and the han introduction was just embarrassing, they introduced space pirates and did nothing with them! SPACE PIRATES!!! why would you just toss them away like that? that whole arc was a waste, they could have done some amazing world building and introduce some important secondary characters and set up some extra side plots which would have built up so much more for han. hell they could have just escaped the space pirates and had kylo hire them in the next episode and trigger an emotional response knowing that they were hunting his father and having to deal with a desire to punish them for wanting to attack his family then having to face the fact that he killed his father...

ughghgh...

[Super Kami Dende]

Eps 7 was a pile of shit. Rogue One looks to be taking the same direction. I just wanted a Thrawn Movie trilogy T____T

[caervek]

So as the story goes George Lucas handed over a fully completed script for Episode VII as well as at least a direction for VIII & IX.

It really sucks that was included in the sale. Because now they can bastardize it and use it as source material, and it can be and will be so far from its original inception.

In Lucas original draft of Star Wars Han Solo looked like Greedo, Yoda was a giant, it was Starkiller not Skywallker and Leia was the main charecter (that last one isn't really a terirble idea). The original trilogy showed that Lucas worked best when controlled by the studio (or at least reigned in), the prequel trilogy showed what happens when he has full creative control.

Episode 7 was designed to be a "safe" film. Its goal was to recoup the cost of buying the Star Wars franchise from Lucas, which it accomplished by taking as little risks as possible. It was a rehash on purpose, built to discern what aspects of the lore fans were most interested in seeing.

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who though this, IMO 7 will age worse than Phantom Menace did because it's basically just a fan service film with no real depth.

[Lupinemancer]

Jar Jar Binks is a perfect example. Little kids thought he was an awesome character, but adults hated him.

I'll never understand this hate. Besides, it's a lie. I'm not a kid, but I like Jar Jar, always did. I think he is funny as hell and I don't get why some idiots hate him. Do you really hate humor so much? That's just sad!

[Kraenen]

At least we're getting more Star Wars, even if it's mediocre.

Feels like we haven't gotten more Star Wars, yet.

[Annesh]

Lucas said he literally designed the films for kids. He aimed at the age 10-15 bracket. That was his core audience with Star Wars.

Right, and it was a huge mistake on his part, for many reasons.

[A dot Ham]

Oh man, and the Transformers movies have made a billion dollars too, so what? By that standard, TFA did even better, so it must be a better movie just because of that, right?

- - - Updated - - -



Again, you're speaking nonsense. It was definitely a reintroduction, and a needed re-assurance after the prequels took a radically different approach (if you want to be generous, most people would have called them disastrous derailments of the Star Wars franchise).

Is it supposed to stand alone? Of course not. It's literally searching for the last Jedi from RotJ, and figuring out why the "win" hasn't felt like much of a win. You saying "no" to whether we need a reintroduction is subjective, at best. From both a financial, and artistic viewpoint, Abrams set out to reintroduce the franchise. Every piece of media before the release of TFA stressed how they were going away from CGI as much as possible, and emphasizing practical effects. That coverage was very specific in its purpose.

You know only one person who hadn't seen Star Wars because that's how fucking ubiquitous these movies are. My mother has seen Star Wars, and she's a 60 year old Indian woman whose never seen anything else even approaching sci-fi in her life.

Nonsense because the great moderator deems it so.

Even if these movies had shaped up to mirror the quality of work present in the prequels it would have still been a success, and just like the prequels even if it was/is truly trash. People would still be singing its praises just as they did when Episode I-III came out.

Years later... lots of hate. In the moment everyone... EVERYONE ate that shit up.

What you call "classic star wars" is nothing more than taking a formula from someone else and updating it.

Is this what star wars has become? A formulaic money maker? A four chord pop song? Same recycled shit?

Abrams did amazing things for the Star Trek reboot. For Star Wars... not so much.


You also make it sound like everyone is in agreement that:
(1) George Lucas sucks
(2) The prequels were trash

That isn't true. I don't have to lie to myself and others. I liked the prequels back then (as did everyone else) and I still like them today. I also recognize the pure irony and stupidity in hating the man that created the franchise to begin with.

Given all the nods to Ralph McQuarrie and his original concept art... how stupid would it be NOT to consult him had he been alive during its production? Likewise how stupid is it to completely turn your back on the man that started this to begin with.

You want to know what classic star wars is? Its no name actors, its goofy dialogue, and budget effects. THAT is "classic Star Wars". I have no delusions about what Star Wars really is/was a high budget B movie. NO ONE thought the movie would do well.

Hellooooooo "I have a bad feeling about this..." I mean come on, high quality stuff amirite? Yet THAT is the Star Wars that started it... that we fell in love with.

I could nitpick all the movies and tear them apart. Including TFA. But you want to give the gold medal to Abrams Star Wars... silver to the original, and bronze to the prequels... Its not a fair assessment. I think TFA is completely disqualified simply because of lack of originality.

I actually would have liked TFA better if they simply remade episode IV, because its basically what they did anyway.

Watch any of the lego star wars, family guy, robot chicken... all the parodies, and they all make fun of the fact that in RotJ the grand scheme is to simply recreate an already proven FAILED project. Yet when it comes time to finally make an actual sequel... what do we do? Create another deathstar... the whole thing from top to bottom was irritating.

The thing is... they knew. They KNEW! They knew they could shit in a bag and slap a Star Wars logo on it and we would buy it. So they figured... fuck it... lets just copy it and wipe the slate clean. The more I talk about it... the more I hate it. Give me Jar Jar, give me Hayden Christensen. It beats formulaic recycled trash.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who though this, IMO 7 will age worse than Phantom Menace did because it's basically just a fan service film with no real depth.

Exactly. It doesn't have the re-watchability (ya I make up words deal with it) that the other 6 have.

[eschatological]

By that anecdotal evidence, I've never re-watched any of the prequels except for a mashup Machete order of 1-6, and I've re-watched 7 twice after the theatrical viewing.

1) When you read what Lucas's original ideas for Star Wars was (Luke being in his 60s, etc), and realize how he was reigned in, I think you do recognize that he's not necessarily a creative genius. He is certainly a technical/effects genius, and did groundbreaking work in that area, and he also brought science-fiction back into the American mainstream, even though Star Wars is fantasy. Shatner said last year that the only reason Star Trek was renewed was because of Star Wars success. For that, I give him credit
.
2) The prequels WERE trash, from almost every film-making perspectives. The only bright spot is the costuming and the music. If you want to associate creative genius with Star Wars, that genius is John Williams. The prequels will be studied in film school as negative examples for what not to do in terms of direction, writing, storyboarding, etc.

Is 7 a great film? Is it Citizen Kane? Nope. Is it even the first Matrix movie? Not really. It's an above-average space adventure film continuing a groundbreaking series from the early 80s. It didn't push any boundaries, for sure. It is, hopefully, A New Hope of the new trilogy (IE, the "worst", not bad, but not as good as what follows). Both the director and the studio thought it necessary to ground that movie in re-introducing the universe with things that echoed the original. That was a sound decision, imo, and leaves them to do whatever the fuck they want going forward. I'll say right now: if 8 again echoes the originals, then you'll have a point. Having 7 do it just makes sense.