Page 18 of 20 FirstFirst ...
8
16
17
18
19
20
LastLast
  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Mindark View Post
    ilvl for ilvl, do you think tanks' damage scales equally, more than, or less than dps as they move from 810 to 850?
    Nearly every expansion this seems to happen. Tanks do good damage early on, then get out scales as time goes on.

    However, this is the first time that ive been forced, as a blood dk, to pursue dps stats (str, haste, crit) over defensive to do my job effectively.

    One thing all the dps seem to forget is how their roles and sucess of runs will be affected if tank damage is nerfed way down. Threat will be an issue again (already mechanics which reduce threat on mobs), wipes will occur more often (dps dead = wipe), and gearcheck/speed runs will also be impacted which means tanks may be less likely to gear up and continue running trivial content to help others get geared.



    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    Unsure about DPS, but only the first 34 artifact points will increase damage, with further points only increasing stamina. Our damage output, outside of ilvl (which everyone has), has a fairly early cap. If I recall correctly, DPS will gain flat damage increases for EVERY point invested into their artifact.
    I think non tanks dont realize that most tanks prioritized damage in their artifact trees for leveling and early content wich is likely contributing to our inflated dps right now.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

  3. #343
    Bloodsail Admiral Saybel's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Hospital for Breath Deficiency
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    I've seen for a fact a DH solo the last boss on black rook hold. I have heard from them that it's happened with more.

    I'm sure you have terrible excuses in line, but this simply can't be a thing. And you know what? This small damage nerf isn't going to fix that. So, again, you should be very pleased with this outcome. Move along.
    The boss has a healing increase lol
    RIP Breath of Sindragosa - 23/06/2015 - The day fun died.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    If healers are getting mad about tanks outhealing them, they are a little bit retarded. My self heals are exactly that. SELF heals. And they are not self sustaining like in WoD (and even then, in appropriate gear that wasn't the case).

    The healer has three other people to worry about, three people who are needed because healer mana is not infinite and mobs must die before damage taken > tank health.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Ha ha, you people have clearly never tanked. Good luck taking four tanks into a dungeon when they don't understand AoE and cleave.

    Classic.
    Not self sustaining? Who are you kidding? There's certain fights where some tanks can solo right now on heroic thru the self healing, and with the gear growing thru the xpac that will be even more prominent on more fights.
    4 tanks in a dungeon actually does work, believe it or not. You could 4 tank any dungeon you want with the dps a tank does right now. Kind of why the nerf to their damage is happening and the point of this thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saybel View Post
    The boss has a healing increase lol
    Yeah, the boss has a healing increase, but some other fights this is still possible. I've seen a DH solo a boss from 60% in Arcway as well as another one solo a fight in VoW.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    4 tanks in a dungeon actually does work, believe it or not. You could 4 tank any dungeon you want with the dps a tank does right now. Kind of why the nerf to their damage is happening and the point of this thread.
    What's worrying is that we're using examples of blowing shit up in trivial content as reason to nerf specs. Heroics are way too easy to be the gauge of anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Murder can be justified and to a certain extent I believe genocide can be justified aswell.

  6. #346
    Scarab Lord Lime's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Over There
    Posts
    4,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    So this guy is pretty insane. The simple answer to this is easy: Try beating a guardian druid in any form of aoe battle. They fucking own atm. Too much.
    My Windwalker laughs at anything other than Havoc DHs. But we're getting nerfed too, so I guess it's all in line.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    It was all the way up to Wrath of the Lich King. When they made it so threat was irrelevant, I stopped tanking. I actually liked having to work for my threat. Going in as a Protection Warrior in Pit of Saron with 3 trigger-happy Ret Paladins as the DPS made for a fun 15 minutes. :P
    Yes, I liked tanking on my prot paladin back in the day too. But it was TERRIBLE gameplay for DPS, particularly melee specs without any means to manage their threat like warriors, ret, and enhance. They could have given those specs threat management tools also, and that could have worked too, but they chose to go a different way.

    Ever since then, it's been unclear what tank gameplay is really supposed to be. For awhile it was active mitigation and cooldown use, but that was rendered largely ineffective in Legion to provide healers with strong gameplay.

    For awhile it looked like they were going to allow tanks to trade-off between DPS and mitigation in Legion, but that has largely been abandoned too.

    Today, tanking is just plain trivial-- there are very few real meaningful choices to be made in mechanical gameplay. Tanks are still expected to be leaders, and shoulder responsibility, directing fights. Maybe that's it. That leadership role, external to the mechanics of actually playing the spec, is what they're trying now.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2016-09-20 at 01:25 AM.

  8. #348
    Every tank needs a way to sacrifice mitigation for more DPS, and the DPS numbers should be respectable if they do so.

  9. #349
    Epic! Snuffleupagus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In front of my keyboard.
    Posts
    1,591
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Not self sustaining? Who are you kidding? There's certain fights where some tanks can solo right now on heroic thru the self healing, and with the gear growing thru the xpac that will be even more prominent on more fights.
    4 tanks in a dungeon actually does work, believe it or not. You could 4 tank any dungeon you want with the dps a tank does right now. Kind of why the nerf to their damage is happening and the point of this thread.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, the boss has a healing increase, but some other fights this is still possible. I've seen a DH solo a boss from 60% in Arcway as well as another one solo a fight in VoW.
    How are you people dying so much that your tanks are forced to solo?

    Also lol at Heroic. Heroic is a joke.

    Blizzard can easily restrict the number of tanks in dungeons and raids, so 4 tanking is a non-issue. The average tank can't solo these bosses, and that is where tuning should lie, not blanket nerfs because some players in specific classes can outperform the average player.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    Every tank needs a way to sacrifice mitigation for more DPS, and the DPS numbers should be respectable if they do so.
    Meaningful choice based on gear or skill of healers. I like it.

    Would make tanking at least somewhat interesting again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Yes, I liked tanking on my prot paladin back in the day too. But it was TERRIBLE gameplay for DPS, particularly melee specs without any means to manage their threat like warriors, ret, and enhance. They could have given those specs threat management tools also, and that could have worked too, but they chose to go a different way.

    Ever since then, it's been unclear what tank gameplay is really supposed to be. For awhile it was active mitigation and cooldown use, but that was rendered largely ineffective in Legion to provide healers with strong gameplay.

    For awhile it looked like they were going to allow tanks to trade-off between DPS and mitigation in Legion, but that has largely been abandoned too.

    Today, tanking is just plain trivial-- there are very few real meaningful choices to be made in mechanical gameplay. Tanks are still expected to be leaders, and shoulder responsibility, directing fights. Maybe that's it. That leadership role, external to the mechanics of actually playing the spec, is what they're trying now.
    Threat was trivialised because a lot of potential tanks would avoid tanking due to not being able to manage threat. As easy as it was, it becomes very hard when DPS hit the wrong target or body pull entire packs.

    While I personally do not like the lack of threat mechanics, increasing the pool of tanks to draw from was probably a wise move for the game as a whole.

    The issue now is that tanking has nothing going for it. It's basically gimped DPS with no real challenge.
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Yes, I liked tanking on my prot paladin back in the day too. But it was TERRIBLE gameplay for DPS, particularly melee specs without any means to manage their threat like warriors, ret, and enhance. They could have given those specs threat management tools also, and that could have worked too, but they chose to go a different way.

    Ever since then, it's been unclear what tank gameplay is really supposed to be. For awhile it was active mitigation and cooldown use, but that was rendered largely ineffective in Legion to provide healers with strong gameplay.

    For awhile it looked like they were going to allow tanks to trade-off between DPS and mitigation in Legion, but that has largely been abandoned too.

    Today, tanking is just plain trivial-- there are very few real meaningful choices to be made in mechanical gameplay. Tanks are still expected to be leaders, and shoulder responsibility, directing fights. Maybe that's it. That leadership role, external to the mechanics of actually playing the spec, is what they're trying now.
    See, I would have given all DPS an extra line in all their "minor" 1.5-minute DPS cooldowns: "While [ability] is active, you generate no threat". Also, I would have given DPS specs the same passive threat reduction (30%?) that ranged DPS got back in the day.

    And yeah, I too feel tanking lost something when threat became a non-issue. It was the one mechanic that no other role had influence in (except Hunters and Rogues who cared enough to use Misdirection/Tricks of the Trade). A good tank would not only know when to use their defensive abilities, but also who to target first and how much threat to put on a priority target so the DPS could kill it before risking pulling aggro, before building threat on other things. A good tank could generate enough threat to hold a boss to them like glue through a fight even with DPS going full-blast, without needing to be overgeared compared to said DPS. And if the tank couldn't hold threat, it was the DPS' responsibility to give the tank a breather.

    Nowadays a good tank... does damage and uses their active mitigation/self heals almost rotationally so the healer doesn't run out of mana while the DPS turn it up to 11 at all times? I'm not too sure anymore.

    As for tanks being leaders... I'm not sure either. Okay, they control when and where the pulls happen, but I always thought the responsibility for tracking what was going on in a fight would be better placed on a ranged character. If anything, simply because they'd have a better view of the arena. And either way, that philosophy of the tank being the leader might work in a dungeon, but in a raid it would mean at least one tank would have no purpose other than sit there, soaking and dealing damage. It would be very shortsighted of Blizzard to design tanks for that purpose.
    Last edited by Holtzmann; 2016-09-20 at 02:12 AM.
    Nothing ever bothers Juular.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Mindark View Post
    What's worrying is that we're using examples of blowing shit up in trivial content as reason to nerf specs. Heroics are way too easy to be the gauge of anything.
    Trivial content or not, it still shows the power level inherent in the class. Heroics/Mythics are also technically not trivial until geared to Max ilvl available.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    How are you people dying so much that your tanks are forced to solo?

    Also lol at Heroic. Heroic is a joke.

    Blizzard can easily restrict the number of tanks in dungeons and raids, so 4 tanking is a non-issue. The average tank can't solo these bosses, and that is where tuning should lie, not blanket nerfs because some players in specific classes can outperform the average player.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Meaningful choice based on gear or skill of healers. I like it.

    Would make tanking at least somewhat interesting again.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Threat was trivialised because a lot of potential tanks would avoid tanking due to not being able to manage threat. As easy as it was, it becomes very hard when DPS hit the wrong target or body pull entire packs.

    While I personally do not like the lack of threat mechanics, increasing the pool of tanks to draw from was probably a wise move for the game as a whole.

    The issue now is that tanking has nothing going for it. It's basically gimped DPS with no real challenge.
    Why lol at heroic? Clearly Arcway is a mythic only dungeon, so there's that to consider. Also, we died because we were learning the fights and the healer got stunned on the run back to final boss so we died to AoE. My mistake then, DH solo'd 50% down, not 60%.
    You also go on to say exceptional tanks shouldn't be nerfed because average tanks can't do what they do? It doesn't matter if exceptional or average, tanks are meat shields. You are asking Blizzard to change in game rules to only allow a certain number of tanks so raids can't exploit the fact that a tank can do just as much damage as dps with more survival built in.

  12. #352
    Epic! Snuffleupagus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In front of my keyboard.
    Posts
    1,591
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Trivial content or not, it still shows the power level inherent in the class. Heroics/Mythics are also technically not trivial until geared to Max ilvl available.
    If you are at or above the ilvl of the dungeon rewards, you outgear it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Why lol at heroic? Clearly Arcway is a mythic only dungeon, so there's that to consider. Also, we died because we were learning the fights and the healer got stunned on the run back to final boss so we died to AoE. My mistake then, DH solo'd 50% down, not 60%.
    You also go on to say exceptional tanks shouldn't be nerfed because average tanks can't do what they do? It doesn't matter if exceptional or average, tanks are meat shields. You are asking Blizzard to change in game rules to only allow a certain number of tanks so raids can't exploit the fact that a tank can do just as much damage as dps with more survival built in.
    Average tank players is more what I meant there, I should have been clearer.

    Exceptional players should not be a reason to nerf anything.

    It's also interesting that most people seem to be complaining about Demon Hunters, who are designed around self healing. That fact that their class gains a specific advantage due to dungeon mechanics is not a reason for a nerf. And for the love of god, people need to stop pretending Mythic is anything but a rebadged Heroic. Until you hit Mythic+ and get your first affix, it's not going to challenge many people.

    The fact is that Blizzard have, once again, listened to the vocal minority of bad players and idiots who don't understand scaling or basic game mechanics. I'm 100% certain that they know these nerfs aren't needed, but they have to appease these players because they perceive them as a majority.

    Until raids are cleared by enough people, they have no valuable data to base tuning on.
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

  13. #353
    The logic on this one is strong.

  14. #354
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodroki View Post
    Because Mythic+ optimal comps would have been 4 tanks + 1 heal and aoe like crazy :s
    naa that gona be DPS loss 5 tanks is the optimal

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    Exceptional players should not be a reason to nerf anything.
    Bit of quotemining here, I admit, but that argument is terrible.

    Balance should be maintained at all levels of play. If the average Shadow Priest did only 20.000 DPS and the most exceptional Shadow Priests did 100.000 DPS, with all other damage dealers hovering around 50.000 DPS, then Shadow Priests' upper range should damn well be nerfed and their middle range buffed. If exceptional tanks, healers or DPS are doing things tanks aren't supposed to do by design, then their ability to do so should be removed.

    You don't balance a game based on the average, the worst or the best players. You have to balance it across all ranges of play, otherwise things start breaking down.
    Nothing ever bothers Juular.

  16. #356
    Epic! Snuffleupagus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In front of my keyboard.
    Posts
    1,591
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Bit of quotemining here, I admit, but that argument is terrible.

    Balance should be maintained at all levels of play. If the average Shadow Priest did only 20.000 DPS and the most exceptional Shadow Priests did 100.000 DPS, with all other damage dealers hovering around 50.000 DPS, then Shadow Priests' upper range should damn well be nerfed and their middle range buffed. If exceptional tanks, healers or DPS are doing things tanks aren't supposed to do by design, then their ability to do so should be removed.

    You don't balance a game based on the average, the worst or the best players. You have to balance it across all ranges of play, otherwise things start breaking down.
    To elaborate more on that statement, any DPS class should output (for example) 300k DPS. In the hands of any exceptional player, the numbers should jump. Same goes for healing.

    I am all for balance across roles, but people playing their class well is not a reason for a nerf.
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    To elaborate more on that statement, any DPS class should output (for example) 300k DPS. In the hands of any exceptional player, the numbers should jump. Same goes for healing.

    I am all for balance across roles, but people playing their class well is not a reason for a nerf.
    Sure, but if DPS classes are all meant to output something like 250k DPS at their very top performance and one of has their exceptional players hitting 300k DPS, then that class' upper range should be nerfed.
    (Some people would argue for all other DPS to be brought up to 300k with exceptional players, but then you start running into encounter design issues.)

    I'm not talking numbers in a vacuum here, it's all relative to the overarching design. All roles are meant to have a minimum, an average and a maximum output, relative to player ability and gear. All roles have a minimum and maximum amount of damage they're designed to take and dish out* (with self-healing falling in the category of "taking damage"). Once those values are established, it then becomes a matter of figuring out how to balance each spec's ability to do their job within those parameters. If one of them goes too far beyond the maximum, there's no amount of skill to justify it: the class has either been poorly designed, or poorly-balanced, and that's something that needs to be solved.

    * Yes, I didn't mention healers. Assume "dishing out damage" in their case means healing people.
    Nothing ever bothers Juular.

  18. #358
    Epic! Snuffleupagus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In front of my keyboard.
    Posts
    1,591
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Sure, but if DPS classes are all meant to output something like 250k DPS at their very top performance and one of has their exceptional players hitting 300k DPS, then that class' upper range should be nerfed.
    (Some people would argue for all other DPS to be brought up to 300k with exceptional players, but then you start running into encounter design issues.)

    I'm not talking numbers in a vacuum here, it's all relative to the overarching design. All roles are meant to have a minimum, an average and a maximum output, relative to player ability and gear. All roles have a minimum and maximum amount of damage they're designed to take and dish out* (with self-healing falling in the category of "taking damage"). Once those values are established, it then becomes a matter of figuring out how to balance each spec's ability to do their job within those parameters. If one of them goes too far beyond the maximum, there's no amount of skill to justify it: the class has either been poorly designed, or poorly-balanced, and that's something that needs to be solved.

    * Yes, I didn't mention healers. Assume "dishing out damage" in their case means healing people.
    I'm agreeing with you here.

    If the average Rogue does 300k DPS, then the average Mage should do 300k DPS. And in the hands of a skilled player, both classes should be able to hit (for example) 600k DPS. Fits in nicely with "bring the player, not the class". Same for ST and AoE performance.

    But DPS and Tanks are very different roles, and the only real arguments against Tanks having competitive DPS are either ignorable or solvable.

    - Why bring DPS? Limit Tanks to 2 in raids, 1 in Dungeons (in current content). Blizzard already does this in Overwatch (i.e. no more Winston stacking).

    - DPS feel bad? So what? Tanks have very boring roles at the moment, and poor tank damage has always been inconsistent with the idea of a boss thinking you are the main threat. You can't complain about gameplay for DPS and then relegate tanks to the void of standing there as a meat shield. If we want the trinity to work (and Bluzzard does), then people need to want to tank.

    - Healers don't feel important! In content that you outgear, this is very true. Not so much in fresh content at appropriate ilvl. Regardless, more party damage and/or dispells would help here.

    - Tanks can easily solo world content! Again, who cares? But to extend an olive branch, add a Tank Aura that boosts tank damage when in a party or raid.

    Unless we bring back threat and/or proper active mitigation, tanking is not a role that people jump at now (see: LFD queues). As I explained earlier, threat management scares off bad players, reducing the tanking pool further. And active mitigation seems to run contrary to their design intent for healing.

    I agree that some tank abilities need tuning, but a flat 10% nerf is just lazy and unwarranted.
    Last edited by Snuffleupagus; 2016-09-20 at 04:01 AM.
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    - Why bring DPS? Limit Tanks to 2 in raids, 1 in Dungeons (in current content). Blizzard already does this in Overwatch (i.e. no more Winston stacking).
    Because that's a rather inelegant bandaid for a balance problem. If tanks are doing comparable DPS to actual DPS of similar gear, while having far greater survivability, even if only exceptional players can extract that kind of performance from the class, that is a problem. Capping the amount of tanks in a group does not solve that problem, it simply makes it invisible.

    Overwatch's solution was implemented there because it's a PvP game without any formal structure to the teams, and a single class' abilities often synergized very well with itself. It's a completely different game to WoW's PvE gameplay, and both games require different solutions to their own problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    - DPS feel bad? So what? Tanks have very boring roles at the moment, and poor tank damage has always been inconsistent with the idea of a boss thinking you are the main threat. You can't complain about gameplay for DPS and then relegate tanks to the void of standing there as a meat shield. If we want the trinity to work (and Bluzzard does), then people need to want to tank.
    That's assuming tanks are in it for how well they place in the damage meters, and that's an assumption I would question the validity of. Tanks do have very boring roles at the moment, but giving them more damage does very little to make those roles more interesting. It just gives some people the satisfaction to topping the charts, while annoying at least 3 other people playing with them.

    As for poor tank damage not making sense in regards to keeping the boss' attention... that's a gameplay concern, not a common sense one. If tanks can do damage comparable to a DPS, there is no point in having DPS. Tanks by definition have more mitigation and more health than DPS, which means they are far easier to keep alive than your average DPS. But if you truly need a reason for tanks to have the boss' attention, that's because they're flashy, annoying, and often used attacks that inflicted more pain than actual damage (hi, Sunder Armor!). Warriors taunt enemies towards them, after all. :P

    Mind, I would be okay with more mechanics that involve threat wipes. Just to keep tanks on their toes. In fact, threat really needs to become a thing again (see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    - Healers don't feel important! In content that you outgear, this is very true. Not so much in fresh content at appropriate ilvl. Regardless, more party damage and/or dispells would help here.
    I agree with you partially. It's not so much "feeling important", as "feeling like a healer". I get that Blizzard is trying to push this "healers should deal damage if they have downtime" philosophy pretty hard this time around, but I personally don't like it. If I have so little to do that I can spend a good 25% of the fight DPSing, it means there's not enough unavoidable damage or dispels to go around. Just like threat should be important, so should healing. I've made a mistake in the Odyn fight yesterday that killed me with the boss at about half health (give or take, since he doesn't really reach 0 health). The rest of the group beat the boss without a single extra heal, and while that's indeed rather skillful of them (and dumb of me for getting killed), I personally don't think it's good design.

    Any situation in which a group can complete a fight they are not overgeared for from 30+% to 0 missing a role entirely is a problem to me. If they can do it missing a tank, a healer, or all 3 DPS, that means that either the fight is tuned wrong, or the roles left are so powerful as to render another role meaningless. I experienced a bit of that in late Wrath of the Lich King, actually. We had a Blood DK who (with the help of some hefty Vengeance stacks) sometimes brought a raid boss from 20% to 0 with all healers dead. Without denying his skill, the fact that he could do that at all revealed an unbalance in the spec itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    - Tanks can easily solo world content! Again, who cares? But to extend an olive branch, add a Tank Aura that boosts tank damage when in a party or raid.
    Nope, no need. Tanks have traditionally been good solo specs, just let them have that. Hell, make it so there's no one ultra-amazing tank spec for soloing like Blood DK was in previous expansions. All tanks should be reasonably close to one another in soloing potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    Unless we bring back threat and/or proper active mitigation, tanking is not a role that people jump at now (see: LFD queues). As I explained earlier, threat management scares off bad players, reducing the tanking pool further. And active mitigation seems to run contrary to their design intent for healing.
    Tanking has never been a role that people jumped at. Even back when LFD was new, in Wrath of the Lich King, queues for DPS were fairly similar to the ones we have now. It wasn't just threat or active mitigation or DPS that made people always avoid playing tanks, it was the responsibility the role entailed. Being a tank requires more knowledge of the dungeon/raid than being a DPS, because in many times you have to be proactive in positioning the mobs or setting up the pulls. Same with being a healer: sure, you can often just power on through any kind of damage your party/raid takes, but in a lot of times you're required to be proactive and know what's coming to be able to prepare for it.

    I'm pretty sure the bottleneck for LFD nowadays switches between tanks and healers depending on the time of day. Just ask whoever got an instant queue whenever you get into a dungeon. Either way, as a healer I'd much rather the bad players didn't even try being tanks. If I have to heal through another Demon Hunter who flat-out refuses to use his self-healing, I'm going to start dropping out of groups and just taking the 15-minute penalty.

    Also, I want threat to be a thing again. Threat didn't go away because people were afraid of playing tanks, it stopped being a thing because Blizzard can't seem to do scaling right. Threat was originally made trivial because DPS damage scaled with gear far, far better than tank damage, to the point even competent tanks in full raid gear were having trouble holding threat against them. Increasing the threat modifiers was out of the question, since that would unbalance threat for all gear levels below the very top. So first came the Vengeance system, and everybody complained that tanks suddenly did more damage than everybody combined. Then that system got tweaked a bunch of times, until Blizzard gave up on it and decided to just give tanks a ridiculous threat multiplier (I think it's something like 900% for Warriors now?). I'm hoping they have a better grip on scaling now, so they can dial back those threat multipliers and Make Threat Great Again. Or some other current meme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    I agree that some tank abilities need tuning, but a flat 10% nerf is just lazy and unwarranted.
    Lazy? Sure. Unwarranted? Not quite, but maybe not for the reasons most people are giving.

    The flat nerf was a bandaid solution to placate public perception of the issue before they can sort it out for real. Simply knowing tanks were nerfed would get some people to stop complaining, and a 10% nerf isn't enough to make or break any of the tanking classes at the moment. Expect large balance changes coming in the near future.
    Nothing ever bothers Juular.

  20. #360
    Epic! Snuffleupagus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In front of my keyboard.
    Posts
    1,591
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    snip
    I appreciate the response you've taken the time to write out, and will properly respond when I am in front of a keyboard and not on my phone.
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •