Worst ret world

[Mr Rannik]

I'm doing fine at 842 compared to other similarly geared DPS, even before the 67K reset.

[Wikiy]

Don't let yourself be convinced by all the "ret is at a disadvantage" talk into playing bad. The disadvantage is marginal at worst. I've got 840 atm, with Ashbringer at 858, and I've been either outdpsing or doing as much dps as other classes, and I usually check these people near me for their gear, they tend to be full with 840-850 hear, a 870+ artifact and two good trinkets, while I haven't even got Faulty Countermeasure or Horn of Valor, either of which could boost my dps greatly since a large part of it comes from my active Crusade times, so yeah...

[Deleted]

Don't let yourself be convinced by all the "ret is at a disadvantage" talk into playing bad. The disadvantage is marginal at worst. I've got 840 atm, with Ashbringer at 858, and I've been either outdpsing or doing as much dps as other classes, and I usually check these people near me for their gear, they tend to be full with 840-850 hear, a 870+ artifact and two good trinkets, while I haven't even got Faulty Countermeasure or Horn of Valor, either of which could boost my dps greatly since a large part of it comes from my active Crusade times, so yeah...

Cmon... this is laughable evidence. It's your personal experience and it's fine. But lets not extrapolate more than that.

I will give my advice here. I think we can do ok maybe now that monks and DH's and tanks are getting nerfed. I still think we are underpowered because we have to play at our best on what is a complex set of rotation conditions to compete.

But one thing is true, the artifact sucks. We got too much of our potencial hidden behind it. So, until you can unlock the long route, things won't get any better.
I personally use FV, Greater judgment, Divine hammer and DP for dungeons. On my own experience i have been able to perform to decent degree, but nothing spectacular.
I am going to reach echo of the highlord in the next 2 days. At that point i am switching to crusade, BoW and fires. But i expect my AoE to take a serious dip. 35% of the damage on DS is still locked even after getting echo, and that definitly ampers us.
For example a Fury warrior has unlocked all his DPS traits by that same point bar that valajar proc wich doesn't make a huge difference. This is what i don't like about artifacts. They are responsible for much of the unbalance in the early game.

In the EN raid is where we will see who bites the bullet, but due to the artifact it has been difficult to judge in how much of a bad situation we are. I think crusade may be limping us, wich is not an ideal place to be in. But, i don't expect good overall results. Wich is good, cause then we may see a buff.

[Deleted]

Looks like people are finally realizing that it's true: They wasted Ashbringer on the worst iteration of ret that has ever been. And the only remedy is Crusade which they're also redesigning in 7.1, AMAZING what happens to Ret whenever Kaplan comes back to work on WoW, isn't it?


In any case, reroll, there is nothing for ret in this expansion, I mean just look at your utility... What utility? Exactly

[Deleted]

I will give my advice here. I think we can do ok maybe now that monks and DH's and tanks are getting nerfed. I still think we are underpowered because we have to play at our best on what is a complex set of rotation conditions to compete.

They won´t get nerfed in a way that let us shine more. what they do is to cut off the excessive aoe but this won´t touch the issue of us not being competitive dps wise while being on target. If we take target switching and or movement into account things look a tab bit worse...

But one thing is true, the artifact sucks. We got too much of our potencial hidden behind it. So, until you can unlock the long route, things won't get any better.
I personally use FV, Greater judgment, Divine hammer and DP for dungeons. On my own experience i have been able to perform to decent degree, but nothing spectacular.
I am going to reach echo of the highlord in the next 2 days. At that point i am switching to crusade, BoW and fires. But i expect my AoE to take a serious dip. 35% of the damage on DS is still locked even after getting echo, and that definitly ampers us.
For example a Fury warrior has unlocked all his DPS traits by that same point bar that valajar proc wich doesn't make a huge difference. This is what i don't like about artifacts. They are responsible for much of the unbalance in the early game.

this is something I pointed out during beta already but got told things won´t be that bad. rets game was the early progress for a couple of addons before becoming out scaled by other classes how actually having a decent scaling. We are still in the same position if we don´t take the artifact into account. We are still very good with early gear. We can reach our critical breakpoints rather easily or at least get close to it where other classes have issues getting theirs.
Now looking at our artifact we notice that according to it ret gets strong in late game whereas other classes who were traditionally in a disadvantage early one do get an artifact that gives them the most power in early game.

In the EN raid is where we will see who bites the bullet, but due to the artifact it has been difficult to judge in how much of a bad situation we are. I think crusade may be limping us, wich is not an ideal place to be in. But, i don't expect good overall results. Wich is good, cause then we may see a buff.

we are and will most properly ever be wings reliant. They tried to get us away from it but gave up on this so they again push us into the 30s good 90s bad niece.

[Morally Grey Storm]

45% damage increase to DS, locked beyond Artifact.
Why? Oh I don't know, maybe these guys know what they're doing. I'm just a regular Retboy, I wouldn't know feth.

I am aghast at it.

[Deleted]

45% damage increase to DS, locked beyond Artifact.
Why? Oh I don't know, maybe these guys know what they're doing. I'm just a regular Retboy, I wouldn't know feth.

I am aghast at it.

I personally think they wanted to give us a feeling of progression. Since we won´t scale like other classes (due to a lack of any significant mechanical interactions with stats) they at least want to give us the illusion of progress. "Yeah, yeah we know you don´t scale good, we all know that you will get your obligatory flat percentage buff like always, to keep you silent in the meantime you can progress over the next few month into your AE dmg."

[Wikiy]

Cmon... this is laughable evidence. It's your personal experience and it's fine. But lets not extrapolate more than that.

Sorry, but all throughout the dozen years that I've played WoW, whenever holy or ret was supposed to have been in a bad place, my experience (and some of it is in mythic or ex-mythic (i.e., what used to be heroic) raids, point being that I've played with non-shitty people, people who know what they're doing) has told me that it's all bollocks. I was never near the bottom at either spec. At worst, I was near the middle. It's all statistical statements regarding idealized situations which almost never manifest themselves in virtuality, all of this whining.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Sorry, but all throughout the dozen years that I've played WoW, whenever holy or ret was supposed to have been in a bad place, my experience (and some of it is in mythic or ex-mythic (i.e., what used to be heroic) raids, point being that I've played with non-shitty people, people who know what they're doing) has told me that it's all bollocks. I was never near the bottom at either spec. At worst, I was near the middle. It's all statistical statements regarding idealized situations which almost never manifest themselves in virtuality, all of this whining.

Would you, as a Raid Leader, pick Ret for WFirsts? For Progress raiding?
Y/N and why?

[Deleted]

just watched the fatboss xavius vid. maybe not 100% acurate quote but:

"So the strategy is to let the sleeping tank tank the add away from the raid and let only sleeping dps or mobile dps burn it down. It would be best advised to leave classes like ret paladins ion the boss."

ret = disqualified for xavius mythic

[Deleted]

just watched the fatboss xavius vid. maybe not 100% acurate quote but:

"So the strategy is to let the sleeping tank tank the add away from the raid and let only sleeping dps or mobile dps burn it down. It would be best advised to leave classes like ret paladins ion the boss."

ret = disqualified for xavius mythic

To be honest, only DHs, Monks and maybe Warriors move fast enough to regularly avoid the blast from the big add and then rush back in.

I figure it's something that is mostly going to be dealt with by the ranged, and melee will be the ones soaking most of the pools left by Horrors (because Horrors will move into melee anyway and because melee won't get as fucked by having to move around a bit from having 66+ corruption).

[Vuagnon]

In my last normal dungeon's final boss, I pulled 180k dps with 789 ilvl. A mage had 340k dps but he had way better ilvl than me. He must have 820+ ilvl at least. I still can't feel much hopeful though, there is so much negativity going on about Ret right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Would you, as a Raid Leader, pick Ret for WFirsts? For Progress raiding?
Y/N and why?

Well, you need someone who can kneel in quiet contemplation to ponder the nature of the Light after a world first. Ret is best for that.

[HPLathus]

Well they probably both have 50 Ilvls higher gear then you so... that's probably why.

Either way, yes ret is low dps right now.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well, you need someone who can kneel in quiet contemplation to ponder the nature of the Light after a world first. Ret is best for that.

Also Rets are quite skilled at contemplating the nature of the bench.
Especially during WFirsts.

[Deleted]

Yeap lets all meet in our order halls and grab a seat on a bench looking at all these iconic figures of wow universe and contemplate in seer constipation while our guildies participate in mythic encounters.

[drakonblayde]

I'm at 846 ilvl, ashbringer up to 867, and I find I can compete single target pretty well (depends on fight). AoE is shit, I've just accepted it.

So on boss fights, I don't even bother with adds unless they have an effect that has to be handled and no one else is doing it (Mythic Odyn, Mythic Hadron, etc). I figured out that the best contribution I can make during boss kills is to hit one thing as hard as I can as often as I can, and no one's given me shit about it.

My concerns are whether or not the lack of AoE is going to make me a red headed step child for Mythic+. It will largely depend on how generous the timer is.

The other thing I've noticed is that I simply cannot go haste to the exception of all else. I've got to keep crit up there as well. I was doing worse damage with 29% haste and 13% crit than I was with 23% haste and 22% crit (which is where I'm sitting now). Below 20% haste though, I hate playing the spec, way too slow and clunky.

[Splatter]

The other thing I've noticed is that I simply cannot go haste to the exception of all else. I've got to keep crit up there as well. I was doing worse damage with 29% haste and 13% crit than I was with 23% haste and 22% crit (which is where I'm sitting now). Below 20% haste though, I hate playing the spec, way too slow and clunky.

I've had the same experience you have had. Mixing gear around to try get to 30% haste generally resulted in lower dps. I'm currently sitting on 26% haste, 21% crit, 27% mastery and can burst to 450k fairly comfortably, stabilising around 240-50k over 5 minutes. Most dungeon encounters finish quite quickly with me on 300-350k dps. Thats at i848.

*edit* what really annoys me is people claiming they "have been doing fine out dpsing everyone in dungeons" without providing and sort of numbers or situations for their damage. On bosses I am on par with most of our guilds other raiders in terms of single target. Trash or a little bit of AoE and I may as well just afk or off heal. Competent classes of similar ilevel leave me for dead and saying you are doing fine in dungeons means nothing when you are running normals or even heroics with brainless window lickers who don't even know what half of their spells do.

[Haram]

45% damage increase to DS, locked beyond Artifact.
Why? Oh I don't know, maybe these guys know what they're doing. I'm just a regular Retboy, I wouldn't know feth.

I am aghast at it.

100% Agreed. So much of our AoE and cleave potential is locked behind a terribly designed artifact weapon. We have so many "dead" talents in our artifact weapon, and 2 out of 3 of our golden traits are stuck in a corner where you have no choice but to pick up 6 points worth of trash to get. And what a surprise, both buff Divine Storm. After playing a DH to 110, a hunter to 110, a ret to 110 and now leveling an Arms warrior, I can confidently say that the Hashbringer is absolutely terribly designed as an artifact talent system and easily the worst of the 4.

- - - Updated - - -

I've had the same experience you have had. Mixing gear around to try get to 30% haste generally resulted in lower dps. I'm currently sitting on 26% haste, 21% crit, 27% mastery and can burst to 450k fairly comfortably, stabilising around 240-50k over 5 minutes. Most dungeon encounters finish quite quickly with me on 300-350k dps. Thats at i848.

*edit* what really annoys me is people claiming they "have been doing fine out dpsing everyone in dungeons" without providing and sort of numbers or situations for their damage. On bosses I am on par with most of our guilds other raiders in terms of single target. Trash or a little bit of AoE and I may as well just afk or off heal. Competent classes of similar ilevel leave me for dead and saying you are doing fine in dungeons means nothing when you are running normals or even heroics with brainless window lickers who don't even know what half of their spells do.

Do not follow the general priorities laid out in the guide. Always always ALWAYS sim your character and find out your personal stat weights based on gear and AP spent. Even at around 20% haste, people have seen Vers or Crit take priority based on stat values. The 30% haste and then Vers=Crit > Mastery is just a generic idea of stat weights, but none of it matters when it comes to your personal gear.

Edit: Our subpar AoE is primarily due to a lot of our Divine Storm buffs being locked away in our artifact. 10% increase damage with Echo, which you get at 22 bloody trait points, the third one (i forgot what its called) which buffs DS damage by 20% locked at 26 trait points, and then we get our 3 points buffed into Divine Storm directly at 27, 28, 29. This is of course assuming you took the "long way" around for A2A. It is abysmal.

[Deleted]

Do not follow the general priorities laid out in the guide. Always always ALWAYS sim your character and find out your personal stat weights based on gear and AP spent. Even at around 20% haste, people have seen Vers or Crit take priority based on stat values. The 30% haste and then Vers=Crit > Mastery is just a generic idea of stat weights, but none of it matters when it comes to your personal gear.

only thing yo can be sure about is if it has mastery it is properly not an upgrade if not +5ilvl and more

Edit: Our subpar AoE is primarily due to a lot of our Divine Storm buffs being locked away in our artifact. 10% increase damage with Echo, which you get at 22 bloody trait points, the third one (i forgot what its called) which buffs DS damage by 20% locked at 26 trait points, and then we get our 3 points buffed into Divine Storm directly at 27, 28, 29. This is of course assuming you took the "long way" around for A2A. It is abysmal.

it´s divine tempest. Ret is one of the classes who has to have almost all points spend to get all dmg traits whereas other classes can get 2 major traits with as few as 16 points..

[Doomchicken]

The worst ret in the world goes to the ret from my VH heroic run yesterday whom proceeded to do a top of 30k dps. I should of logged to see if he was doing something other than auto attack.