"Fury takes 30% more damage ! Unplayable !"

[Kelato]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[purebalance]

Do you always start and finish arguments with yourself? Does it get more straw man than not even having an actual person who said what you refute?

I'd love the day when people on these forums would stop using strawman improperly.

[Renixian]

What if they changed Battle Scars to be reduces dmg taken while enraged by 7% per (and round down to 20%) instead of 6% more health. That way with Warpaint we're at 0 sum- could also hit our max HP in addition to this to balance it out. Taking 20% more dmg makes me worry heavily about having a raid DoT+ Raid wide nuke happening at the same time. 30% more health is not comparable in those regards.

[Olrox]

That's actually not true.

See MysticX's response.

I specifically said "arbitrarily" - the Curse of the Dreadblades is not like Enrage, it's like Lifetap - you're using an active ability to pay some health for a temporary benefit, and it's a large benefit for a fairly low health cost, it works.

Enrage is a core, passive, unavoidable mechanic of fury that doesn't give you a choice - it makes you take more damage for a benefit that is assumed present for you to meet your baseline output - your cooldowns and actives are tuned around it.

If you had to pay .5% max HP every time you used Saber Slash once you equipped the Outlaw artifact, then I could see this argument - it would be a meaningless cost. The reason I say enrage's is arbitrary is that it doesn't enhance anything - you don't get a better enrage for paying health or taking more damage, you just get a portion of your core kit and you can't avoid it without actually crippling yourself.

[Tyrathius]

Having Fury Warriors be glass cannons who take extra damage but also deal a shitload might be acceptable if the damage they dealt was high enough to make it worthwhile. But it's not. They're on the middle-low end of the spectrum and are outdone by many specs with no such trade off.

Though I find this to be a pretty common with WoW balance in general. The best specs in WoW usually have great damage, survivability, and mobility while the worse specs are seriously hampered in at least one of those, if not two or three. The trade off sounds good on paper, but ultimately just ends up being a handicap when there are other classes without those weaknesses.

[Uncle]

Fury doing half the damage of Arms? Well, i didn't laught like that since, well, since Wod i guess. You clearly don't know how to play war fury, Arms is FAR under Arms atm, if you think the contrary, it's time to learn to play and take the good talents instead of the "best" traits advised by icy veins and others ignorants.

And winning about Fury viability in Pvp is like, i don't know in fact, Fury had NEVER been viable in Pvp, wake up boys.

[Bloodwinger]

Arms is FAR under Arms atm,

Judging by fair load of shit you said, you wanted to say Arms is far under Fury. Which is a good bait (actually not).

[Deleted]

Fury doing half the damage of Arms? Well, i didn't laught like that since, well, since Wod i guess. You clearly don't know how to play war fury, Arms is FAR under Arms atm, if you think the contrary, it's time to learn to play and take the good talents instead of the "best" traits advised by icy veins and others ignorants.

And winning about Fury viability in Pvp is like, i don't know in fact, Fury had NEVER been viable in Pvp, wake up boys.

[Deleted]

Fury doing half the damage of Arms? Well, i didn't laught like that since, well, since Wod i guess. You clearly don't know how to play war fury, Arms is FAR under Arms atm, if you think the contrary, it's time to learn to play and take the good talents instead of the "best" traits advised by icy veins and others ignorants.

And winning about Fury viability in Pvp is like, i don't know in fact, Fury had NEVER been viable in Pvp, wake up boys.

Lol? Actually fury is not all THAT bad. But come on man, it's nowhere near Arms in ST.

[Holofernes]

Fury doing half the damage of Arms? Well, i didn't laught like that since, well, since Wod i guess. You clearly don't know how to play war fury, Arms is FAR under Arms atm, if you think the contrary, it's time to learn to play and take the good talents instead of the "best" traits advised by icy veins and others ignorants.

And winning about Fury viability in Pvp is like, i don't know in fact, Fury had NEVER been viable in Pvp, wake up boys.

u sir, have no clue. And yep, arms warrior beats fury warriors by about 30-40 % dps wise. at live on legion wow. Only that u have and idea about what game this forum is about.

And about your Fury pvp: I was the worlds highest ranked Fury warrior, Warrior and had a 2vs2 rating of 2350 in S5 for the first month of Wotlk.
Because Fury was op as fuck in pvp, my shaman mate and me could farm every dk /pal combo on our realmpool, only 1 team on the whole pool managed to beat us consistently, it was a feral combo. And classic fury warriors were a thing too, if u had better raidgear (aq40+), u started to become a oneshotting beast with bloodthirst due to insane ap values.
I dont know when u startet playing wow, but u havent learned much about the game since.

[Lady Dragonheart]

The 30% extra damage is a bane for PvP, even without defensive CDs or decent Self-healing (which Fury warriors lack both). In PvE you become a healer's hindrance, specifically because unavoidable damage is almost always worse for a Fury warrior, sometimes dangerous enough to kill them outright. This is all along the fact that it is not a fun gameplay mechanic as most Fury warriors have little to no control over when and where they will take extra damage.

I think it should be removed, or at the very least altered be attached to an activated ability like Battle Cry.

[Zandalariprelate]

How can you be enraged without hitting something?

I will explain a bit more, assume i got the rot debuff after I hit the boss i mean like in the second breath of Nythrenda, i am enraged and that buff is per second damage so at least for 3 seconds i would receive a lot of damage and cant suck it with any defensive, i hope they reduce to 10% with war paint that damage because that would let us to be unpopulars in the pugs

[Supercool]

I feel like Second Wind was misplaced. Fury definitely needed it more than Arms, who already had reliable self-healing in open world content with VR.

Fury with SW would still have problems when that huge unavoidable burst came in while they were going ham, but if played properly wouldn't be quite the mana sponge they are now in a raid environment.

[Ezymode]

It will become far more apparent with the raid mechanics that "require players to be topped off." Just scroll through any raid guide under the 'healer requirements' banner and you will find that almost every boss will have an ability that requires it. Especially if you have taken heavy damage just prior and / or have a debuff that doesn't allow you to get into melee range to help heal yourself. Niche situations but they do come up.

On a side note this made me chuckle. I like your optimism but i think you took the dps thing a liiiitle too far

You guys are so pathetic that so funny, I'll let you know if I'm a burden to heal in my raid team, but yeah continue to be this negative. Oh yeah and I have about 600-1million dps and I always log at the 95 percentile so I know what I'm doing

[Leih]

I mean, personally haven't had any trouble with the 20% more damage taken because my Fury warrior has much more hp than Arms. It's not a non-issue, but so far it's fine. Obviously, when we start thinking about Mythic raids and healer throughput becomes stretched, it may be a deal-breaker.

I also think a lot of people may overlook Furious Charge, especially for soloing and dungeons, thinking Warpaint is completely mandatory. With Furious Charge I can heal half my hitpoints in a couple of charges. One furious charge + enraged regen combo is a serious amount of burst heal when I'm doing world content.

[Krawu]

Fury has a larger buffer in terms of health and can tank a bit more damage up front, but the healer still has to put 20% more healing into a fury warrior to top us off even with the talent, since the healing taken isn't increased.

What is true is that the healing from bloodthirst is way stronger than what people give it credit for - it heals for 100% of your HP roughly every 80 seconds and scales with max hp. Because of this, it'll get even stronger as gear levels increase, because it's a HP percentage based heal. Who else even has something like that? It'll be insanely strong on fights with slow raidwide damage or if the healers are overtaxed for an extended period of time.

[Valech]

You are a bit late with this, OP. That Fury would be playable in regards of the aspect of taking more damage is known since months. Tho the points you are making makes me doubt that again... the specc seems to attract ill informed people.

[Deleted]

because it's a HP percentage based heal. Who else even has something like that?

Which DPS class/spec has a percentage-based heal? Well, hunters (and they're ranged) do, rogues do, WW monks do (plus they can heal at will with energy), mages do via Ice Block although they can't do anything during, but they also have an absorb shield on top of that (and they're ranged), frost and UH DKs do.

Also, retribution paladins can heal through damage done plus with mana, enhancement shaman and feral druids can heal with mana both with instant spells, havoc DH can heal via damage done during metamorphosis and via soul fragments. And that's not even mentioning any of the tank specs.

Bloodthirst heal isn't exactly amazing in comparison to the other classes.

[Bigbazz]

Fury has a larger buffer in terms of health and can tank a bit more damage up front, but the healer still has to put 20% more healing into a fury warrior to top us off even with the talent, since the healing taken isn't increased.

What is true is that the healing from bloodthirst is way stronger than what people give it credit for - it heals for 100% of your HP roughly every 80 seconds and scales with max hp. Because of this, it'll get even stronger as gear levels increase, because it's a HP percentage based heal. Who else even has something like that? It'll be insanely strong on fights with slow raidwide damage or if the healers are overtaxed for an extended period of time.

At a minor expense to DPS a lot of hybrid classes can just heal themselves outright if needed, while requiring less healing to begin with. Rogues with feint are just taking so much less damage, every 30 seconds they can heal themselves for 30% of their health and if they have the Feint Legendary they can heal themselves for 30% of their health over 5 seconds for the entire duration of the fight (aka entirely self sufficient).

Fury doesn't have this minor expense to DPS way of healing, it just has the weak by comparison passive Bloodthirst heal and the big Enraged Regen cooldown, but the other classes require less healing to begin with and also have survival cooldowns so really Fury is not better off. Fury has a big strength on burst healing via ER, but over a sustained situation it's just a burden on the raid when healing is intensive.

I don't think people would mind if Fury was actually bringing serious DPS, honestly though I say the same thing I've said since the start of the alpha, they should scrap this silly idea. If they wanna bring back early alpha levels of self healing then fine, but the self healing is dogshit now compared to then.

[wooters]

Did you know that we have a talent that makes it 20%? Great we can now continue with this number.
Did you know that enrage is not active 100% of the time? Great we actually don't take this extra damage all the time.
Did you know that we have about 30% more hp than everybody? Wow 30 - 20 = 10 ! We are actually tankier than most classes !
Did you know we have a spell called "Commanding shout" ? Wow, we have a raid wide survivability buff !
Did you know that bloodthirst heals you ? That is 4% of your health every 4 seconds and can restore a millions of health during a fight !
Did you know we have "Enraged regeneration" ? Oh I've got an idea ! let's use this + Commanding shout at the same time for crazy damage reduction + then heal back up against an unavoidable burst mechanic !

The only time I died on my warrior is when the whole group died, so if it is unplayable to you, just, learn to play?

perhaps you have good healers then lol. look, if you take more healing then basically everyone else..then you are a liability to the grp. you don`t seem to get this