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  1. #1

    [Guardian] Exact Stat Weights / Pawn String??

    I haven't seen it anywhere, so I was hoping someone could help me out with this.

    I have a lot of differences in gear, but I'm trying to abide by the stat priority as set by other, more knowledgeable bears, while still going with what I think works well for me personally... but I know the Pawn string I got for my Balance spec has been SUPER useful, and I feel like the default Guardian Pawn string is off... can anyone help me out with either exact weights I should be using OR a Pawn String I can import?

  2. #2
    I still cant find this anywhere... Anyone?

  3. #3
    Well with all the testing i've done, i am personally going a haste>mastery=vers build, works really well and helps keep your self-healing and mitigations rolling constantly
    Last edited by Brolee; 2016-09-19 at 07:20 AM.

  4. #4
    stat priority is vers>mast>>>>haste>>>crit for survival, crit>vers>mast>haste for dps, add infinite ">"s between mastery and haste the more you bearcat/catweav

  5. #5
    To expand on the idea Dreyen is talking about, you want to follow the priority right now. The weights change based on the fight type and talents/gear you have, and what assignment you might have on a specific encounter. If you follow the priority however you will have the best all around gear according to the sims and testing. Get yourself used to your priority on stats and your playstyle and make educated guesses on upgrades.

  6. #6
    Currently, armor is the most important stat, and by a huge margin. When all other stats are between 2.4-3.0, armor is over 40. So ilvl > all in items that have armor value.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyttis View Post
    Currently, armor is the most important stat, and by a huge margin. When all other stats are between 2.4-3.0, armor is over 40. So ilvl > all in items that have armor value.
    That's really interesting, I had no idea!

    What about Stamina? I haven't seen Stamina listed anywhere in our stat priority. Do we not worry about it since we are stacking Vers/Mast?

  8. #8
    I simmed it out about a week ago and this is what I got:

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Oh sure

    Stam: 1
    Agility: 0.18
    Armor: 3.92
    Crit: 0.12
    Haste: 0.21
    Mastery: 0.28
    Vers: 0.26

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    I simmed it out about a week ago and this is what I got:
    how is agility higher than crit? agility only provides attack power, crit provides dodge.

    imo
    stam : 1
    mastery: 0.8
    versatility: 0.8
    haste: 0.75
    crit: 0.4
    bonus armor: ??? i found the darkmoon trinket to be lacking, average 5% physical reduction, and a ton of agi that's useless, vs stuff like 900 mastery+900k absorb,(arcway trinket) or 1.4k stam + low health buff (parjesh medallaion)
    yet to find an bonus armor item that wasn't acompanied by trash secondaries.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaykay View Post
    bonus armor: ??? i found the darkmoon trinket to be lacking, average 5% physical reduction, and a ton of agi that's useless, vs stuff like 900 mastery+900k absorb,(arcway trinket) or 1.4k stam + low health buff (parjesh medallaion)
    yet to find an bonus armor item that wasn't acompanied by trash secondaries.
    At the weights listed by Arlee, a 900-Armor buff would be worth fourteen 900-Mastery buffs.

    Blizzard: Bosses now also have a chance to drop ponies! A pony makes your character better.
    Players: AAARGH ponies are RNG!
    Now it's even harder to be perfect. /unsub
    They should just make ponies baseline.
    LOL @ World of Ponycraft.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    stat priority is vers>mast>>>>haste>>>crit for survival
    Mastery is ahead of versatility for survival. Did the math on it, versatility becomes better than mastery if you have above 10200 more versatility rating than mastery rating (this is assuming you are being healed. The effective damage reduction through mastery is a healing received buff. No heals, versatility wins). That said, I think versatility gives you more damage as it is a straight dps multiplier, as opposed to the attack power multiplier from mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaykay View Post
    how is agility higher than crit? agility only provides attack power, crit provides dodge.
    Agility also provides dodge.
    Last edited by mmoc047bb4337b; 2016-09-20 at 11:26 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by murosfw View Post
    The effective damage reduction through mastery is a healing received buff.
    I'm slightly confused here (playing heal), but isn't the survivability bonus solely coming from the increased healthpool, and whence only kicks in, if the healthpool paired with other forms of survivability (vers/armor) allows you to take a higher amount of hits when compared to other tanks?

    Because, all the increased healing does, is keep heals proportional to increased hp pool, and whence a guardian form turning into a mana sponge.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    I'm slightly confused here (playing heal), but isn't the survivability bonus solely coming from the increased healthpool, and whence only kicks in, if the healthpool paired with other forms of survivability (vers/armor) allows you to take a higher amount of hits when compared to other tanks?
    Its a combination of more health and more healing received. With 10% more health, you can take 10% more damage before death, and with the appropriate healing bonus on top, the healers won't notice the difference. So effectively, you "mitigate" 10% of the damage due to buffering it into your life pool and the healing bonus evening it out again.

    Comparing it to other tanks is of course never easy, as every tank has its own kind of mitigation.
    But comparing versa vs. mastery is a bit complex - yes mastery requires healing to get its full potential, because its a two-fold stat, but in raids or dungeons, you are typically getting healed anyway. With versatility your life only lasts until you're dead either.

    Could you last longer with fully stacked versa and no healing? Probably. Is that a likely scenario in raids? Probably not.

    Versatility is still mathematically better once you reach around ~7200 rating or so.
    There was a post analyzing the behavior of Mastery vs. Versa here:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42231364

    7200 rating of both combined is not hard to reach however, and as such Versa should be preferred.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2016-09-20 at 11:14 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaykay View Post
    how is agility higher than crit? agility only provides attack power, crit provides dodge.
    Agi gives dodge too and its way more powerful at increasing dps.

    And yea, vers gets better beyond 10k rating of both combined, it's been incredibly detailed out in a previous post 2-3 pages ago. I'm already at 13k~ of both so it's already better for me.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    Versatility is still mathematically better once you reach around ~7200 rating or so.
    There was a post analyzing the behavior of Mastery vs. Versa here:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42231364

    7200 rating of both combined is not hard to reach however, and as such Versa should be preferred.
    Thanks for the link, it pointed out my math mistake, forgot to add & invert instead of subtracting for the healing. Re-did it, and came to same conclusion as that. Versatility is better than mastery if the ratings added are more than 9999 (if the rating needed for 1% are correct, and they are about right from what i saw in testing last night)

    mathy bits: a = versatility damage reduction amount per point, 1/80000. b= self healing from mastery, 1/70000. x = current versatility, y = current mastery.

    Healing required = (1 -ax)/(1 + by)

    so for versatility to be better than mastery, you want (1 -a(x +1))/(1 +by) < (1 -ax)/(1 +b(y+1))
    (1 -ax -a)(1 +by +b) < (1 -ax)(1 +by)
    1 -ax -a +by -abxy -aby +b -abx -ab < 1 -ax +by -abxy
    -a +b -ab < ab(x + y)
    1/a -1/b -1 < x +y
    80000 - 70000 -1 <x +y
    9999 < x + y
    Last edited by mmoc047bb4337b; 2016-09-20 at 01:37 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Agi gives dodge too and its way more powerful at increasing dps.

    And yea, vers gets better beyond 10k rating of both combined, it's been incredibly detailed out in a previous post 2-3 pages ago. I'm already at 13k~ of both so it's already better for me.
    It's also worth noting a difference of 0.06 is barely a difference at all, from the results I posted crit and agility are essentially the same... but it doesn't matter too much b/c you don't really ever have choice between crit and agility when it comes to gearing. Agility is going to be on most things anyway and the choices are really between Vers, Mast, crit, and haste... and honestly you shouldn't be choosing crit if you have the options of two of the other three instead. It's value is honestly negligible.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sounder View Post
    At the weights listed by Arlee, a 900-Armor buff would be worth fourteen 900-Mastery buffs.
    This is one of the most important things to realize. The Darkmoon Trinket is BiS as a result.

    The main reason for this is that Ironfur works as a percentage of your armor including this bonus armor, so if you're running 2-3 stacks of ironfur frequently, you're getting 3-4 times the stated benefit of the Trinket.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by murosfw View Post
    Mastery is ahead of versatility for survival. Did the math on it, versatility becomes better than mastery if you have above 10200 more versatility rating than mastery rating (this is assuming you are being healed. The effective damage reduction through mastery is a healing received buff. No heals, versatility wins). That said, I think versatility gives you more damage as it is a straight dps multiplier, as opposed to the attack power multiplier from mastery.



    Agility also provides dodge.
    Agility does not give you dodge anymore. Crit does.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by violintides View Post
    Agility does not give you dodge anymore. Crit does.
    Actually, both do. About ~2000 Agility is 1% Dodge.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    Actually, both do. About ~2000 Agility is 1% Dodge.
    Weird, I find it hard to believe since I was swappin' some trinkets around and my dodge didn't change at all between my straight versatility trinket and the straight agi trinket. Not even a tiny .00% percentage. And that agi trinket had 775 agility on it.

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