Britain will veto EU army, says Defence Secretary

[Azadina]

Thankfully the EU isn't run by petulant children

I'm not sure I understand why you feel like the UK should be allowed to be dicks on purpose, and get away with it?

[willtron]

I'm not sure I understand why you feel like the UK should be allowed to be dicks on purpose, and get away with it?

Because it's well within our rights to do so. Plus I'm sure there's more political things that we do know about at play here.

[Wyrt]

I think you're still getting my point, though.

Austria doesn't need protection from Russia.

[Deletedaccount1]

The first is idiocy.

Why do you think that exactly?

[Azadina]

Because it's well within our rights to do so. Plus I'm sure there's more political things that we do know about at play here.

And it's well within the rights of EU to give you a crappy trade deal in return for your kindness. That's justice.

[willtron]

And it's well within the rights of EU to give you a crappy trade deal in return for your kindness. That's justice.

It's within their rights, but not in their interest. Plus we won't be fully reliant on the EU for trade. It's no justice, it's idiocy.

Furthermore, one more big country leaves the EU, and Germany will be left like a single mother with ten young kids, and all this rhetoric about an EU Army will be dead.

[Slant]

In the hypothetical being described above both Germany and Greece both decided to leave the Euro.

In this case, the Greeks would be better able to pay their debts, because their economy, using a greatly devalued currency (Drachma) would get a significant boost. (This boost would still happen if only Germany decided to leave the Euro (and not Greece), because without Germany the Euro would still devalue.)

For Germany, they too would get a boost in their ability to pay debts owed in Euros, because their new currency would be more highly valued against the Euro.

In this hypothetical, Greek debt is devalued because the currency it is owed in, Euros, is now worth less against their Drachma. Germany gains in its own direct ability to pay debts in Euros, and loses indirectly by now being owed less from Greece.

You somehow seem to think when someone leaves a currency it'll happen on a 1:1 rate... if Greece left the Euro, they'd still have to pay the same amount in Euros. Their currency would devalue like a fuckton of bricks on a neutron star but they'd still have to pay the same equivalent of debt. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here...

Only thing I can think of is Greece being able to directly devalue their own currency. But the exchange rate to Euros isn't set by them alone, so this is a bargain that wouldn't help their debt situation half as much as you seem to think it would.

[Stormdash]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7313081.html

We need this army badly. Good thing they are leaving soon.

The EU doesn't need a standing army at all. Awful idea. Of course, so was dabbling in political sovereignty for the EU at all beyond the common market.

[Kalis]

Britain no longer has a say in the EU, fudge off.

Article 50 isn't due to be invoked until early next year, after which will come two years before the UK formally leaves the EU. Your post is roughly two-and-a-half years premature.

[Slant]

Austria doesn't need protection from Russia.

Well, not until Hungary and the Czech Republic fall, they don't. You're right. Are you seriously not getting my point? It's not that complicated...

[willtron]

The EU doesn't need a standing army at all. Awful idea. Of course, so was dabbling in political sovereignty for the EU at all beyond the common market.

I'd also be curious to see which countries favour a United States of Europe more. I have a feeling the trend might favour more eastern countries.

[Slant]

Why do you think that exactly?

Just to make it clear, you suggest Europe should just leave the floodgates open indefinitely? Ankh-Morporkian diplomacy style?

It may work in fiction books, but not in the real world...

[willtron]

Well, not until Hungary and the Czech Republic fall, they don't. You're right. Are you seriously not getting my point? It's not that complicated...

If Russia gets as far as invading Hungary and the Czech Republic, do you really think:

a) A united European Army would stop that monster war machine?

b) NATO and the US wouldn't already be heavily involved already?

[psyquest]

Amen to that

Quite right, since the UK left or is in the process of leaving their opinion is irrelevant.

as in TOTALLY irrelevant.

[willtron]

Quite right, since the UK left or is in the process of leaving their opinion is irrelevant.

as in TOTALLY irrelevant.

Not at all. We still have a seat at the table, until Article 50 is enacted, we can say and veto whatever we damn well please, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Slant]

It's within their rights, but not in their interest. Plus we won't be fully reliant on the EU for trade. It's no justice, it's idiocy.

Furthermore, one more big country leaves the EU, and Germany will be left like a single mother with ten young kids, and all this rhetoric about an EU Army will be dead.

Um... reality check here: The EU giving the UK a crappy deal is absolutely in the interest of the EU. With "crappy deal" translating to basically "Shittong of money for the EU and alms for the UK" that's the textbook definition of "being in their interest".

Anything not being a crappy deal would not be, in the strictest sense, in our interest.

Also, since it's Germany and France doing the decisions on the EU Army, I think it looks unlikely that France is going to pussy out like the UK did anytime soon.

[Kalis]

Quite right, since the UK left or is in the process of leaving their opinion is irrelevant.

as in TOTALLY irrelevant.

Does that mean we no longer have to pay our membership fee then?

[Slant]

If Russia gets as far as invading Hungary and the Czech Republic, do you really think:

a) A united European Army would stop that monster war machine?

b) NATO and the US wouldn't already be heavily involved already?

The entire point is that the EU Army stops any foreign threat at the border, successfully. Ideally without the US having to step in. We are relying on a foreign country that is heading into a presidency of either a chronically unfit person or Hitler reborn... those are not good candidates for us. We should not rely on the US any longer. We should make sure that we can rely on ourselves. This doesn't mean we should be aggressively pushing the militaristic route. But it means we could perhaps have a coordinated army that works as a deterrent instead of the token toys of defense ministers.

[TwistedSkull]

Even though i agree that the UK has no say in the matter we don't need an EU army we have Nato.

[Slant]

I think the situation I describe above is hypothetical, so one can go back and forward with it all the time. It also presupposes certain political arrangements, like the debt in Euros not being increased proportional to the Euro devaluation, holds. As you point out, there is no guarantee of this. But then it’s also not guaranteed that the Greeks would have to pay this proportional increase either. Given the political uncertainty and the direct, significant impact of those political decisions, (known unknowns), it seems we may well be at an impasse. Either way, in the situation I describe above, the Greek debt would be devalued.

That would be a tough sell in Germany. Political suicide, almost.