The DK class story makes no sense *spoilers*

[Loot]

Time travel 8 years ago, Arthas and his death knights get destroyed by the Argent Dawn+Ashbringer at LHC. Present day, the DKs think its a good idea to invade LHC again, but this time its not just the AD, its all the paladin orders united under the Silver Hand. Granted most of the paladins are off at Netherlight Temple at this time, but Arthas (and by extension, now Mograine) knew LHC was holy ground and that they could not win a battle at it.

How does it make any sense at all for DKs to even think about bringing Tirion back given past events at the LHC?

[Wishblade]

I guess they thought themselves more powerful than Arthas, considering their Deathlord at least was probably part of the group of Adventurers who fought him back in Wrath.

But you do have a point, maybe not the best decision in the world.

[Deleted]

Well, it IS why they got wrecked in the end despite all that were left behind are Liadrin and Maxwell, and the fodder newbie paladins. It's BECAUSE of what you mentioned in the OP.

So yes, your conclusion was spot on; they were idiots.

edit - To add to that, my personal interpretation of that scene where you get to raise Darion as one of the Four Horsemen was that he got punished for his arrogance, or to be more mild, miscalculation. In a way, that is a much more fitting ending to me than "you are so strong Darion!!!1! Serve me in your second undeath cycle!!"

[Onvious]

Well, it IS why they got wrecked in the end despite all that were left behind are Liadrin and Maxwell, and the fodder newbie paladins. It's BECAUSE of what you mentioned in the OP.

So yes, your conclusion was spot on; they were idiots.

edit - To add to that, my personal interpretation of that scene where you get to raise Darion as one of the Four Horsemen was that he got punished for his arrogance, or to be more mild, miscalculation. In a way, that is a much more fitting ending to me than "you are so strong Darion!!!1! Serve me in your second undeath cycle!!"

darion didnt want to attack chopel, when you speak with him, he simply obeyed to Deathlord , so Darion wasnt a idiot, the idiot one is PC

[Highwhale]

In the end of questline u understand what attack was just a test. Bolvar test EB - how far they ready to go to save the world. Since the beginning LK planned Darion as 4th Horsemen. Darion says it after resurrection. Also attack was made to make EB more pariah in Azeroth - to make LK+EB bond more powerful.

Pitty what many players don't understood it and called LK/Darion/PC stupid.

[Deleted]

Confidence and desperation, They mustve considered the options and came to the conclusion that raising tirion outweighed the possible failure.

(i like that better than blizzard just writing it in because they thought it was cool)

[Deleted]

darion didnt want to attack chopel, when you speak with him, he simply obeyed to Deathlord , so Darion wasnt a idiot, the idiot one is PC

I thought it was the other way around, actually. I am yet to level my death knight, so I admit I had a misunderstanding there.

Also, I was under the impression that the PC Death Knight become the Deathlord at the conclusion of the Death Knight Order Hall Campaign, with Darion acting as the Leader before he dies. I forgot that you actually used to get the title alongside your Artifact back in Beta.

Despite that, it doesn't change what the TC said - the Death Knight Order Hall acted idiotic, and they got wrecked as a result. Now that changes the bit about the Lich King granting Darion a spot into the Four Horsemen, and if anything, it makes me sad for Darion now.

[Factoral]

There are a few questions than need to be answered.

Are the EB stronger than the DKs etc. from the last time?

Did the EB know, that all the paladin groups were together? Do we assume that everyone knew everything about each faction? Or do we assume that these things happened somewhat simultaneously, so the EB would not know that the paladins were together.

If EB are stronger than they were, and they didn't know the paladins had banded together, then tactically it was a sound decision.

If the EB are stronger, and they did know. Did they think that the reward was greater than the risk?

If the EB are weaker in any context, then was this just bad leadership?

[OneTripleZero]

The PC DK becomes the Deathlord once you get the first artifact and meet with Bolvar. You just get the in-game title at the end of the campaign.

The idea to attack Light's Hope to take Tirion is Bolvar's. The PC DK goes along with it because they're following orders. Darion does the same because shit rolls downhill. Nobody is particularly stoked about the idea despite seeing its merits.

During the assault, Darion is killed while holding a Death Gate open so the PC and the other Horsemen can escape. You take his body back to Acherus, where Bolvar decides instead that Darion should be the leader. It's not explicitly stated that it was the idea the whole time, or that it was a set up. Darion states he feels as though he knew it was to be him all along.

[Deleted]

The PC DK becomes the Deathlord once you get the first artifact and meet with Bolvar. You just get the in-game title at the end of the campaign.

The idea to attack Light's Hope to take Tirion is Bolvar's. The PC DK goes along with it because they're following orders. Darion does the same because shit rolls downhill. Nobody is particularly stoked about the idea despite seeing its merits.

During the assault, Darion is killed while holding a Death Gate open so the PC and the other Horsemen can escape. You take his body back to Acherus, where Bolvar decides instead that Darion should be the leader. It's not explicitly stated that it was the idea the whole time, or that it was a set up. Darion states he feels as though he knew it was to be him all along.

Actually, this interpretation is very interesting to me because my paladin (who I roleplay as) is now losing her shit over what happened while she was aiding the Highlord and the rest of the force at the Netherlight Temple; she has death knight friends since the Northrend Campaign, and things got sore between them now from her end for what she thinks is a personal betrayal.

Maybe if they explained it to her in character some day, she might mellow.

[FertsBlert]

Personally I think they should have let us raise Tirion enough to talk to him, he likely would have been onboard with the idea, fighting evil is kinda his thing.

[OneTripleZero]

Actually, this interpretation is very interesting to me because my paladin (who I roleplay as) is now losing her shit over what happened while she was aiding the Highlord and the rest of the force at the Netherlight Temple; she has death knight friends since the Northrend Campaign, and things got sore between them now from her end for what she thinks is a personal betrayal.

Maybe if they explained it to her in character some day, she might mellow.

I think it's an interesting development because Tirion almost became the new Lich King until Bolvar intervened. I myself have no doubt Tirion would have accepted becoming a Death Knight because he would see the importance of the mission over everything else.

Bolvar wasn't doing it out of malice for the light, he made the decision because Tirion was a) the best leader Azeroth had known, and b) was dead. The fact that c) he almost put the helmet on himself probably made some large part of the decision as well.

[Deleted]

Does anyone know for definite who is actually in control? Bolvar isnt even a paladin is he? and LK(nerzhul) broke arthas to his will so what is special about bolvar?

[rarhyx]

I think there are two options:

1) they wanted to get Tirion for the greater good of azeroth(and by extension the whole universe), so i.e. they maybe thought that they had no real ill intentions and that the light woudln't harm them

2) LK knew it all along, maybe Darion had to die to "open" his eyes (as he says after you rise him)
2a) blizz wants to extend the class hall quests and this event may lead to either Tirion becoming eventaully the fifth horsemen (or atleast be raised as a dk) or his spirit will play a role for the paladins

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Does anyone know for definite who is actually in control? Bolvar isnt even a paladin is he? and LK(nerzhul) broke arthas to his will so what is special about bolvar?

bolvar was a paladin and according to the rise of the lich king, arthas killed nerzhul's spirit, so arthas is also dead now and bolvar is not controlled (for now atleast... we may never know. maybe nerzhul didn't die and he controls bolvar now. only time will tell)

[caervek]

Time travel 8 years ago, Arthas and his death knights get destroyed by the Argent Dawn+Ashbringer at LHC. Present day, the DKs think its a good idea to invade LHC again, but this time its not just the AD, its all the paladin orders united under the Silver Hand. Granted most of the paladins are off at Netherlight Temple at this time, but Arthas (and by extension, now Mograine) knew LHC was holy ground and that they could not win a battle at it.

How does it make any sense at all for DKs to even think about bringing Tirion back given past events at the LHC?

It's actually a sound plan.

Arthas was going to rekt Tirion and the entire Argent Dawn until Mograine chucked him the Ashbringer, as the current wielder of the Ashbringer is off defending Netherlight Temple the KotEB know it basically leaves LHC pretty defenceless from a full scale attack (If you class the named/unnamed Pala/DK NPCs as about even then the DK player tips the scales in the KotEB's favour, in theory).

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Bolvar isnt even a paladin is he?

Yes, or at least he was, it's unknown if he can still wield the light in death like Sir Zeliek did.

[Abysthor]

Bolvar wasn't doing it out of malice for the light, he made the decision because Tirion was a) the best leader Azeroth had known, and b) was dead. The fact that c) he almost put the helmet on himself probably made some large part of the decision as well.

Personally as a Death Knight this whole campaign has made me become wary of Bolvar. A lot of it has to do with the risen horseman. They all struck me as surprising accepting of undeath. Nazgrim pops out of the grave and doesn't bat an eye and is like lets do this. It just felt reminiscent of undead bound to the previous Lich King's will. But I thought maybe I'm thinking about it too much. But then there was Darion. Through the whole campaign he expresses feelings of doubt for our actions but is willing to follow the Deathlord's commands. Then when it came time to raise Tirion, and Darion was horrified.

"The Lich King demands too much!"

"Tirion Fordring deserves more than a life of anguish and undeath!"

"The path to the Fourth Horseman will be soaked in righteous blood! Blood that will stain our hands forever."

"Know this, Deathlord...I will obey your will, but there will be no redemption for what we are about to do."

He was clearly against it but was willing to follow commands as a loyal knight. But after he was killed and raised yet again he shows that same cold emotionless will that I feel is so reminiscent of undead bound to the Lich King.

"I see now what I did not see before. My destiny was written long ago."

That line really struck me. The Darion who second guessed this entire campaign is suddenly so accepting of what has been done. Is this truly his will? Or this the will of Bolvar? Is the new Lich King tightening his grip over the Ebon Blade? If so for what purpose? Is he only focused on the threat of the Legion? What comes now after the Legion is defeated?

Maybe I'm overthinking this all, but I now feel suspicious of Bolvar and am interested in seeing how the rest of this story plays out through Legion. I'm either going to be wrong or we're seeing the seeds of a future villain being planted.

[Deleted]

It has been already largely discussed in another thread.
At the end of the campaign, there are strong hints that Bolvar wanted Darion has the fourth horsemen from the beginning, and the whole attack on LHC was merely a test for him and the PC. A theory is also supported by which Bolvar made the EB attack LHC to also futher bind the dks and the Lich King togheter.

A particular tinfoil hat theory wants the PC to be already under Bolvar control after receiving the mark, and the whole raising horsemen around the world (including Darion) is actually a way to resurrect them under the LK control and slowly take over Acherus.

I guess in future patches we might get a more certain answer.

[Shibito]

Gonna be interesting to see what happens between the ebon blade and the silver hand now.

[Deleted]

Based on the speech the Lich king gives you after the event, the whole thing was just a plot to get Darion (who was questioning the LK) killed and raise him as the 4th horsemen.

[Raetary]

Does anyone know for definite who is actually in control? Bolvar isnt even a paladin is he? and LK(nerzhul) broke arthas to his will so what is special about bolvar?

Bolvar was a paladin before his "death".
And bolvar is in control, arthas never was under someones control, he killed ner'zhul and took over, both are dead now.

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