Should I raid with a guild that uses Loot Council?

[callipygoustp]

Eh? Such animosity for asking for an opinion. I have never dealt with loot council before and I have no choice IF I want to raid on my server as its the main method for gear distribution on my server. To someone whom has never dealt with this before I am only asking if people have had issues with the Loot council method. Your statement of your guildies not being considered for any loot because your mood is soured by a certain person without cause is were my angst comes from.

I wish I could delete this thread now. I never meant to start a thread that I now can see would easily slide down into troll territory.

Its a shame you and others in this thread are missing the point of the post you quoted. Instead of dismissing it as a "troll" response think about the message.

[antelope591]

Always confuses me why people who join a guild expect same loot rights right away as others who have been there for months or years building it up. If the LC is really corrupt its easy enough to spot after a few raids and move on. In the guild Im currently in I didnt expect to get the best items week 1 but I knew it wouldnt be a problem due to my skill. Lo and behold 6 months later of topping DPS meters and Im part of the core making loot decisions.

[Dsc]

Never.
I've raided with some very high end guilds, we didn't use it. We ran dkp. And even then sometime we would pass over upgrades for the good of the team.

At that level players should know what's best, and choose appropriately. Letting others dictate ones course is not conducive to recruiting, retaining, and developing a true contending team.

[araine]

So you wouldn't take offense at someone, for all intents and purposes, calling you a thief?

All loot systems have pros and cons, but LC gets the most flak due to people not liking the idea of others judging them and giving them loot based off performance.

And a lot of times "performance" will create shitty play just to get that "performance" number up, you know failing to move out of and avoid mechanics you should avoid if you can. but ignoring them gets your "performance" such as DPS look better. It can frequently create a dps at all cost mentality in a raid and trust me that can fuck you so hard you will be cockblocked on a boss you should beat with ease if you just cared less about your "performance" and actually worked on beating the boss instead even if your "performance" took a 15% hit on the epeen meter

[darkwarrior42]

A well run lot council is without question the best loot distribution system for any guild. If you have concerns, have the guild clearly explain the system they will use for assigning gear and handling disputes or situations where more than one person needs the gear. If they can't, that's s bad sign.... Either that they're not going to be fair, or that they haven't thought the system through properly.

I like loot council. I like personal loot or random roll as alternatives for less serious content or for pugs. I would never again use a point/dkp/epgp system; such systems are 100% mercenary, and only work truly well when everyone in the guild agrees to work with that kind of mercenary mindset.

[ItachiZaku]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

lol that already sounds like I wouldn't want to raid with you. Say one little thing that you might not like, and now getting shut out? lol fuck all the way off with your nazi regime shit guild.

[munkeyinorbit]

... My guild uses a round robin to try to even it out. We are not mythic raiders. Even so, Tanks and Healers tend to get loot first but it does mean they get all the loot initially.

That is retarded, why give the gear to the people who don't actually need it that much. Give it to DPS. They are the ones carrying the raid. The more DPS there is, the easier the fights are for the other roles. I've healed/tanked and deepsd. Tanking is a joke, healing is easy. Without good dps, things just go too slow and you can end up behind the 8-ball. Burn those adds down? Better give healers gear. WTF?

[Traveler Voltin]

Yup I am 100 percent aware. And you wouldn't even be thought of for raiding with us. Anyone who cares about gear distribution so much that they can't trust a loot system is not some one I have time for.
99 percent of people who have asked this question to me leave after the first 3 weeks of raiding.

If you dont care then go 6 months of not receiving gear.

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If you are more worried about not getting loot or others getting more loot, then I am thinking maybe loot council is not for you. No matter how fair the loot council.

Loot council, is, in my opinion, on paper, the best loot system to assist in the progression of THE ENTIRE RAID group as a whole. This means people needs to trust the council AND also accept they may not get loot for an extend period.

Ideally, loot is distribute that will benefit the progression the most. If the loot drops benefits a selective few more, particularly BiS, those people will get it. Not you.

My guild uses a round robin to try to even it out. We are not mythic raiders. Even so, Tanks and Healers tend to get loot first but it does mean they get all the loot initially.

How do you progress with low dps?

[Deleted]

I honestly have never had any issues. Always tends to be who performs better with their current gear got it. That being surviving and pulling the best possible numbers for your gear would deserve an upgrade. However I am not really sure how it works as I don't pay attention. I am usually the last to get geared because I have a kind heart and most of all I do not care for loot. Only time I do, is when it starts to get low and I run the risk of being a burden on the raid team.

[Jewsco]

Yup I am 100 percent aware. And you wouldn't even be thought of for raiding with us. Anyone who cares about gear distribution so much that they can't trust a loot system is not some one I have time for.
99 percent of people who have asked this question to me leave after the first 3 weeks of raiding.

Good because I don't raid with people that play the game to lord over people who gets what. I would never ever raid with someone with your attitude. Sad to see some are so desperate that they put up with you. You must be insufferable to raid with. I feel bad for them.

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lol that already sounds like I wouldn't want to raid with you. Say one little thing that you might not like, and now getting shut out? lol fuck all the way off with your nazi regime shit guild.

Exactly and add to it that how the game is nowadays and gear matters way more than skill and one would never get gear as they would be the low dps or heals due to lack of gear. Nice little catch 22 his crap guild made there. Good way to keep people down or have them begging them for gear sounds real fun.

[Deleted]

Yup I am 100 percent aware. And you wouldn't even be thought of for raiding with us. Anyone who cares about gear distribution so much that they can't trust a loot system is not some one I have time for.
99 percent of people who have asked this question to me leave after the first 3 weeks of raiding.

So what is your point exactly? Are you trying to tell the OP it is good or bad by being the person he is afraid of?

[RyanEX]

And a lot of times "performance" will create shitty play just to get that "performance" number up, you know failing to move out of and avoid mechanics you should avoid if you can. but ignoring them gets your "performance" such as DPS look better. It can frequently create a dps at all cost mentality in a raid and trust me that can fuck you so hard you will be cockblocked on a boss you should beat with ease if you just cared less about your "performance" and actually worked on beating the boss instead even if your "performance" took a 15% hit on the epeen meter

Anyone that acts like that isn't "performing".

[runique]

Loot council is the best way to ensure your guild will be successful as fast as possible. Feeding the right gear to the best players will increase the overall damage of the group more than feeding everybody equally, especially considering almost every guild outside of the top 100 (probably top 50) has at least a few players that you have no idea why they are even in the group.

[Jewsco]

A well run lot council is without question the best loot distribution system for any guild. If you have concerns, have the guild clearly explain the system they will use for assigning gear and handling disputes or situations where more than one person needs the gear. If they can't, that's s bad sign.... Either that they're not going to be fair, or that they haven't thought the system through properly.

I like loot council. I like personal loot or random roll as alternatives for less serious content or for pugs. I would never again use a point/dkp/epgp system; such systems are 100% mercenary, and only work truly well when everyone in the guild agrees to work with that kind of mercenary mindset.

In a perfect world but you, me and everyone else knows cliches form in every guild and people will feel others get gear before themselves and leads to loot drama so it isn't the best system. It is like technically communism is the best form of government as everyone has what they need but humans are too greedy and don't want someone they feel or see doing less then them having the same stuff as they do. If you like drama then sure loot council is great.

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So what is your point exactly? Are you trying to tell the OP it is good or bad by being the person he is afraid of?

Either this person is trolling or irony is lost on him.

[RyanEX]

Good because I don't raid with people that play the game to lord over people who gets what. I would never ever raid with someone with your attitude. Sad to see some are so desperate that they put up with you. You must be insufferable to raid with. I feel bad for them.

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Exactly and add to it that how the game is nowadays and gear matters way more than skill and one would never get gear as they would be the low dps or heals due to lack of gear. Nice little catch 22 his crap guild made there. Good way to keep people down or have them begging them for gear sounds real fun.

Or MAYBE...just MAYBE...those that raid with him are in it to kill bosses and the loot is a happy sidenote. Whenever someone new to guild's first question is about your loot system it's an instant flag.

DKP - they'll likely start complaining about how unfair it to compete against others with more points since they've been there longer.

EPGP - they'll probably complain about the extra rules that system uses (such as rank based) and not getting loot for a period of time.

Round robin - they'll likely be at the bottom of the list and, again, not get loot for a long period.

Loot Council - having others judging your performance and giving you gear based off of it (best case) or not getting loot due to a clique (worst case).

[Aurora]

GMs and officers want their guild to succeed more than anything else, it's naive to think they'd be happy with sub-optimal raiding conditions so they can have all the nice gear for themselves. Even the general sentiment would be insulting to most GMs or officers, to put so much time and effort into the group's progression aims only to be accused of profiteering.
I'm sure most recruiters would agree that someone showing more interest in loot than progress is displaying the wrong kind of attitude for mythic raiding.

[ItsTiddles]

Let's be honest, your issue is not knowing whether or not the officers who are in charge of LC are assholes/elitist/whatever you wanna call it. Guess what? This isn't fixed by magically going to personal loot. If they are tyrannical assholes for some reason, they'll probably still try to control loot in PL. Have you not seen the forums of people already complaining about being pressured to trade loot?

On the topic of LC, I, personally, prefer it. The whole reason I raid is for progression and my gear only progresses as fast as my raid does. So yes, I'd prefer my mail gear going towards hunters if they need it just as much as I do. Why? Because we're going to get that loot again and it'll be quicker because our bosses are dying faster. Some people hate that there's a chance that gear is priority for someone over someone else. If you have a shadow priest and a fire mage who both have an 850 chest and an 865 chest drops in heroic that favors one of their stat prios better, guess what? Whichever one it prios better should get it. Even if the other one can /roll 100 or has more dKP (which can be just as biased as LC, based off of how some guilds do it).

[KalaK]

I have been out of the raiding scene for years and from what I am reading personal loot seems like a better overall gearing option for entire guilds but on my servers the only guilds recruiting are all loot council based. I am wondering if the Inner circle buddy system will be prevalent and something I should just walk away from.

I joined this one guild recently since all 5 of the only mythic guilds recruiting all used loot council but has anyone had alot of good experiences with loot council or should I just cut my ties? I did notice that the officers were all grouped together doing mythic modes seeming to exclude other members but that is natural to want to group up with your closer knit friends so that has no bearing on this issue. Just seems ripe for abuse over personal loot or DKP.

Loot council is not bad, but you need to know that probably they will distribute the gear based on many factors: attendance, what the group needs (if they need to gear healers first, or dps, or tanks), etc. I think that in good hands loot council is by far the best choice to get progression, the drama will still be there
For example, i have recently come to be raid leader of a whole group, so after taking everything in consideration i just decided that i will give personal loot a shot (for normal and heroic at least) and then switch to loot council (i have made clear this to everyone, and explained in detail how the system will work). what you should do, if you were a raider of my group, is ask how the loot distribution system works in the group (what theyre taking in consideration). Hope this helps you

[Tiev]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

Oh look! A d-bag! Quick, take pictures!

[Jewsco]

Or MAYBE...just MAYBE...those that raid with him are in it to kill bosses and the loot is a happy sidenote. Whenever someone new to guild's first question is about your loot system it's an instant flag.

DKP - they'll likely start complaining about how unfair it to compete against others with more points since they've been there longer.

EPGP - they'll probably complain about the extra rules that system uses (such as rank based) and not getting loot for a period of time.

Round robin - they'll likely be at the bottom of the list and, again, not get loot for a long period.

Loot Council - having others judging your performance and giving you gear based off of it (best case) or not getting loot due to a clique (worst case).

Guess what I don't care about loot and my gear does pass it around to who needs it most, most of the time but we don't have a few people judging others deciding who gets what. All those systems you described do indeed add unneeded drama to loot as someone will always feel they got robbed in some way. Why the personal loot system is much better. Unless your raid team has been around for years with the same people meaning you are near a world first progression team then yes those other ways work. But for the vast majority of raid teams those loot systems lead to drama and breakups.