Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

so from what i have read up on dk tanking, most guides or recomanded talents say that tremble before me is a bad talent choice, yet tightening grasp doesnt really add much if you are already able to control the mobs and place yourself correctly. does tremble not work on trash mobs in mythics? at current they seem to do the most unavoidable damage for tanks in general and as such if it does work doesnt that make it better?

[Philondra]

Tremble Before Me is unreliable and breaks on virtually everything. If mythic damage is threatening enough that you need a breather, you're better off picking Tightening Grasp and kiting the mobs through Death and Decay.

[Nnyco]

the 70% slow makes it a great tool for kiting

[Snuffleupagus]

so from what i have read up on dk tanking, most guides or recomanded talents say that tremble before me is a bad talent choice, yet tightening grasp doesnt really add much if you are already able to control the mobs and place yourself correctly. does tremble not work on trash mobs in mythics? at current they seem to do the most unavoidable damage for tanks in general and as such if it does work doesnt that make it better?

The fear is too unreliable to be good, although I don't see it as harmful if:

1. You don't need Gorefiends as often.
2. You don't need to slow mobs.

As it stands, a minor chance to interrupt and stop some damage isn't worth losing a slow that allows for much easier kiting as well as Gorefiends more often. For me, anyway.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

makes sense, thusfar i havnt needed to kite mobs but i have been using tremble more for the caster mobs than the melee ones as the fear still interrupts spells if i get lucky procs while my other abilities to prevent casting are on cd

[Felstone]

so from what i have read up on dk tanking, most guides or recomanded talents say that tremble before me is a bad talent choice, yet tightening grasp doesnt really add much if you are already able to control the mobs and place yourself correctly. does tremble not work on trash mobs in mythics? at current they seem to do the most unavoidable damage for tanks in general and as such if it does work doesnt that make it better?

Tremble Before Me is unreliable and breaks on virtually everything. If mythic damage is threatening enough that you need a breather, you're better off picking Tightening Grasp and kiting the mobs through Death and Decay.

Yes the fear breaks easily but unless things have changed dramatically it also interrupts spell casts and more importantly swing timers. The other talent choices seem situational at best when you consider more classes now have access to Gorefiend's Grasp style abilities.

[Deleted]

Tremble Before Me is unreliable and breaks on virtually everything. If mythic damage is threatening enough that you need a breather, you're better off picking Tightening Grasp and kiting the mobs through Death and Decay.

Dont underestimate all the random interrupts it can do on mobs who cast or channel, where there are loads of.

[Snuffleupagus]

Dont underestimate all the random interrupts it can do on mobs who cast or channel, where there are loads of.

Random chance is always going to be second best to control over your fight. The slow should not be underestimated, which a lot of people seem to be doing. And the 10 second ICD is quite bad.

I often find it more beneficial to slow and run when mobs are ~10% and move to the next pack.

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Yes the fear breaks easily but unless things have changed dramatically it also interrupts spell casts and more importantly swing timers. The other talent choices seem situational at best when you consider more classes now have access to Gorefiend's Grasp style abilities.

You mean just Demon Hunters? With a reduced range?

The interrupt is RNG, and there is no guarantee it working as you want. It was handy on beta, not so much on live.

[Tojara]

Depends on the instance honestly. Some instances you aren't going to do big pulls, nor are you going to need gorefiends for. A lot of them a simple and easy LoS is going to suffice.

That said I think a lot of people forget that the grip talent snares by 70% which is absolutely massive. Given the CD and how often it refreshes, it's very easy to maintain high DPS while kiting and taking zero damage (dipping in with VB, and/or dumping resources with stuns going out).

Tremble before me isn't bad and it's fairly consistent when it does proc (usually about half way through DnD duration, whereas before it was just a couple seconds in it seemed). Some of the instances have a shit load of things you can interrupt, and a lot of casts can't even be interrupt by a traditional silence which tremble is good for.

I'll still take grip reduction talent 95% of the time though. Having a large AoE 70% snare is just too good. I still grumble that gorefiends is 3 minutes base though, it really should be 2, and 1 with the talent. I'm talking mostly about dungeons and more importantly mythic+. Obviously in raids depending on encounter you would take whatever. Yeah, you will probably be kiting a decent amount in mythic+.

[Philondra]

The problem with Tremble Before Me's interrupt is that it doesn't count as a traditional interrupt, so it doesn't put mob spells on cooldown. This can be a problem if someone uses an interrupt right when Tremble Before Me procs and the spell doesn't get properly interrupted, causing the mob to cast it again several seconds later.

This might not necessarily be a problem, depending on the instance, but I worry about the trash before Helya in Maw of Souls and the fear cast going off, pulling the next pack and leading into a chain of uninterruptable heals.

[Felstone]

You mean just Demon Hunters? With a reduced range?

I thought Druids & Warriors also had something similar as well, i must be mistaken.

Having a large AoE 70% snare is just too good. I still grumble that gorefiends is 3 minutes base though, it really should be 2, and 1 with the talent. I'm talking mostly about dungeons and more importantly mythic+. Obviously in raids depending on encounter you would take whatever. Yeah, you will probably be kiting a decent amount in mythic+.

You raise a good point, i saw beta footage of Blood tanking Mythic+10 and this might be the best option, i'll give it a shot this week.

[Deleted]

The problem with Tremble Before Me's interrupt is that it doesn't count as a traditional interrupt, so it doesn't put mob spells on cooldown. This can be a problem if someone uses an interrupt right when Tremble Before Me procs and the spell doesn't get properly interrupted, causing the mob to cast it again several seconds later.

This might not necessarily be a problem, depending on the instance, but I worry about the trash before Helya in Maw of Souls and the fear cast going off, pulling the next pack and leading into a chain of uninterruptable heals.

Stuns and fears never put spells on cooldown. An ill-placed stun can completely mess up your group's interrupt-rotation.

[Cirayne24]

I thought Druids & Warriors also had something similar as well, i must be mistaken.

Ursol's Vortex was moved to Resto only. Not sure what you though warriors had.

[Deleted]

[...] yet tightening grasp doesnt really add much if you are already able to control the mobs and place yourself correctly

I don't understand your point. Gorefiends grasp is incredibly handy and the increased cd is really annoying. Xhul'Horac and the imps to name one encounter where GG can come in very handy. Having trash packs with lots of casters (that will not run towards you) is also something you can't avoid by "placing yourself correctly". Sure, it helps, but you make it sound like GG is superfluous.

Also, given our lack of defensive cooldowns now, having the kite option to allow the healer to heal you up/vampiric blood come off cd/else is very useful

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

talking dungeons not raids man, most rooms in dungeons arnt hard to bring everything together without needing the shorter cd on grasp

[derycksan]

I don't understand your point. Gorefiends grasp is incredibly handy and the increased cd is really annoying. Xhul'Horac and the imps to name one encounter where GG can come in very handy. Having trash packs with lots of casters (that will not run towards you) is also something you can't avoid by "placing yourself correctly". Sure, it helps, but you make it sound like GG is superfluous.

Also, given our lack of defensive cooldowns now, having the kite option to allow the healer to heal you up/vampiric blood come off cd/else is very useful

Its a toss up in my experience, kiting hasnt been too useful since we move so damn slow and the mobs that really hurt are usually ranged or use an ae effect anyways so kiting to reduce damage isnt great for reducing incoming damage especially if it means you run the risk of aggroing another group or positioning the mobs where they are more of a danger to the group.

Tremble has been more useful in my experience as has more utility.
Tremble has saved me numerous times as it stops damage for that second im waiting for gcd to finish before i can consume or deathstrike. Also i get more rp as im able to heartstrike more mobs (cant really do that while kiting).

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[Deleted]

Has anyone tested Cenarius as BDK on beta? Do we have to take Rune Tap for the spear in P2? It's our only % DR and if we just eat the hit with nothing up we kill the raid.

[Baddok21]

Has anyone tested Cenarius as BDK on beta? Do we have to take Rune Tap for the spear in P2? It's our only % DR and if we just eat the hit with nothing up we kill the raid.

its like they learned nothing from BDK on garaj the spirit binder in MSV (first fight BDKs were straight out sat on)

[ShiyoKozuki]

so from what i have read up on dk tanking, most guides or recomanded talents say that tremble before me is a bad talent choice, yet tightening grasp doesnt really add much if you are already able to control the mobs and place yourself correctly. does tremble not work on trash mobs in mythics? at current they seem to do the most unavoidable damage for tanks in general and as such if it does work doesnt that make it better?

All three talents in that row do nothing basically but tremble before me is by far the best in 5 mans because it randomly interrupts spell casts.

[Monteverdi]

Has anyone tested Cenarius as BDK on beta? Do we have to take Rune Tap for the spear in P2? It's our only % DR and if we just eat the hit with nothing up we kill the raid.

Not having tested it, there are a few things to consider:

• Damage from the ability is physical damage, meaning it should be mitigated by armor, blood shield, and bone shield. It's a big number, but after mitigation it's much more manageable.
• Rune tap is, at the least, worth considering. Sure, you're gonna lose out on that sweet sweet HP from Foul Bulwark, but rune tap is made for times high damage that can be readily anticipated.
• Blood Mirror, too, may also be of worth, as it is (effectively) another 20% straight up damage reduction. That said, using it loses you Purgatory so you have to weigh the benefit of the 20% reduction cooldown (which can help minimize a raid-wriping mechanic) against the wipe-prevention usefulness of Purgatory.
• Trinkets are a big deal on this fight. A tank with Shard of Rokmora and Impenetrable Nerubian Husk, for instance, will be much better than a tank with WQ trinkets. That said, I see no trinkets that drop from the raid that will be of any help on this fight, so you might want to try to farm up the good dungeon trinkets in mythic+