Momentum Up-Time and Paired Skill Usage

[Restitution]

Momentum is a fantastic buff to our damage but it comes with up-time requirements. I was curious of how others are using this talent in their rotation/play style. For example, do you use FR and then squeeze in as many skills as you can during momentum. Once the buff has fallen off, cast VR and begin the button smash again until it falls off. Then finish with FR and spam some more.

Another example would be to pair FR with VR so that you reduce downtime from the boss running back after VR. I feel this play style falls short due to throw glaive, fel barrage, and glide. The downtime after VR can be filled with damage range abilities and glide to get back quickly. Since the momentum buff doesn't stack, you end up losing up-time using this method.

I am not stating what rotation or play style is the correct way, just curious to see how others are maintaining this buff.

[Shirofune]

Outside of the opener (you've no fury there) it's like this:

Generaty Fury up to 70~ -> Enter Momentum -> Unload Hell (3 skills usually) -> Generate Fury -> Repeat

[ufta]

Outside of the opener (you've no fury there) it's like this:

Generaty Fury up to 70~ -> Enter Momentum -> Unload Hell (3 skills usually) -> Generate Fury -> Repeat

That is counter to what @Vanyali advises.
Basically, the rule is this: "Momentum uptime > everything else"

If you are delaying a Momentum window while you are generating fury, then you are losing Momentum uptime and you are ultimately doing less damage.
The key implication here that a lot of people have a hard time accepting is that sacrificing Momentum uptime is worse than going into a Momentum window with no fury.

[Deleted]

Honestly I hope they give Havocs a good alternative to Momentum dps wise.

[Deleted]

Honestly I hope they give Havocs a good alternative to Momentum dps wise.

There is. "Nemesis" or "Chaos Blades"

[Vanos27]

There is. "Nemesis" or "Chaos Blades"

For single target maybe. For 2+ they fall way short.

[Bloodwinger]

You forgot one part. You can optimally mix up both advices, since charges on Fel Rush allow you to stagger their usage, getting both of both worlds. Prepared on CD, since it generates Fury over time and has no charges. Fel Rush only when 70+ Fury or nearing 2 stacks.

[Lucrece]

That is counter to what @Vanyali advises.
Basically, the rule is this: "Momentum uptime > everything else"

If you are delaying a Momentum window while you are generating fury, then you are losing Momentum uptime and you are ultimately doing less damage.
The key implication here that a lot of people have a hard time accepting is that sacrificing Momentum uptime is worse than going into a Momentum window with no fury.

That only applies if you're letting fel rush charges or VR cap. You can have rolling fel rush charges to dump fury on momentum windows since you're losing virtually nothing since as long as you have a rolling fel rush recharge you aren't wasting any meaningful momentum uptime.

[Shirofune]

That is counter to what @Vanyali advises.
Basically, the rule is this: "Momentum uptime > everything else"

If you are delaying a Momentum window while you are generating fury, then you are losing Momentum uptime and you are ultimately doing less damage.
The key implication here that a lot of people have a hard time accepting is that sacrificing Momentum uptime is worse than going into a Momentum window with no fury.

I guess those are different playstyles. I just don't see the point of spamming FR/VR with no Fury if you don't have Demon Blades.

As someone said above me, if you're not sitting on 2 charges of FR and VR is in CD, you're not losing uptime, and even if you lose, I still don't understand what's the point of doing Demon's bite in a Momentum window.

[Deleted]

Basically, never sit on 2 charges of FR and keep VR rolling. Build fury outside momentum. If done right u never build fury inside momentum. The time you build fury inside momentum you are doing something wrong. VR is outside gcd so use CR, TG, EB or FR so u keep hitting something. Havoc is a really ACTIVE spec, you should always be smashing buttons!
NEVER EVER pair VR and FR! U are wasting momentum buff that u could use on something else, you should have something else for getting back in range like running and TG.

[Restitution]

Basically, never sit on 2 charges of FR and keep VR rolling. Build fury outside momentum. If done right u never build fury inside momentum. The time you build fury inside momentum you are doing something wrong. VR is outside gcd so use CR, TG, EB or FR so u keep hitting something. Havoc is a really ACTIVE spec, you should always be smashing buttons!
NEVER EVER pair VR and FR! U are wasting momentum buff that u could use on something else, you should have something else for getting back in range like running and TG.

If i were to bet my pennies, this guy has it pretty much right. I personally use this playstyle and it serves well. So much button smashing, a keyboard replacement will be needed soon lol. I have tried a few different ways of using momentum and simply keeping charges rolling and momentum will be maintained for you. It synergies rather well in terms of rolling charges and uptime. Focus on rolling charges and the rest falls into place

[Tundera]

That is counter to what @Vanyali advises.
Basically, the rule is this: "Momentum uptime > everything else"

If you are delaying a Momentum window while you are generating fury, then you are losing Momentum uptime and you are ultimately doing less damage.
The key implication here that a lot of people have a hard time accepting is that sacrificing Momentum uptime is worse than going into a Momentum window with no fury.

Yeah no. Maximum uptime on momentum is around 67% I believe. The point of havoc is to have fury going into each momentum cycle. You're not sacrificing any momentum uptime as long as VR and one charge of FR is on cooldown at all times. That means that you have a pretty lenient window (33%) to build fury without needing to press a momentum button. It is NOT worth it to cast FR if you are at zero to 50 fury, have VR on CD and have 1 FR charge on cd. Now if you're at say 50 fury and you're about to have your second charge come back up, yes absolutely FR. You'll have enough fury for 2 CB's anyway and you would be just wasting a gcd with 2 FR charges ready to go, but otherwise no it's not worthwhile to waste a momentum window if you're doing your rotation correctly.

[Hawthorne Wipes]

I main Vengeance, so I'm not really used to playing Momentum, but when I switch, usually what I do it's to pair my FR and VR with Throw Glaive and another spender; then build fury up until the seconds before TG is about to expire, and repeate again.

[ufta]

Yeah no. Maximum uptime on momentum is around 67% I believe. The point of havoc is to have fury going into each momentum cycle. You're not sacrificing any momentum uptime as long as VR and one charge of FR is on cooldown at all times. That means that you have a pretty lenient window (33%) to build fury without needing to press a momentum button. It is NOT worth it to cast FR if you are at zero to 50 fury, have VR on CD and have 1 FR charge on cd. Now if you're at say 50 fury and you're about to have your second charge come back up, yes absolutely FR. You'll have enough fury for 2 CB's anyway and you would be just wasting a gcd with 2 FR charges ready to go, but otherwise no it's not worthwhile to waste a momentum window if you're doing your rotation correctly.

Ok so evidently reading comprehension is difficult for some people here. Please re-read what I said. I'll quote it again for you:
"If you are delaying a Momentum window while you are generating fury, then you are losing Momentum uptime and you are ultimately doing less damage."
"If you are delaying a Momentum window"

Clearly, if FR, VR, and Blur are all on cooldown, then you are not "delaying a Momentum window". I thought that much was obvious so I didnt spell it out. If any of those abilities are not on cooldown and you're sitting there building fury, then you ARE delaying Momentum and you are losing damage.

[Deleted]

Ok so evidently reading comprehension is difficult for some people here. Please re-read what I said. I'll quote it again for you:
"If you are delaying a Momentum window while you are generating fury, then you are losing Momentum uptime and you are ultimately doing less damage."
"If you are delaying a Momentum window"

Clearly, if FR, VR, and Blur are all on cooldown, then you are not "delaying a Momentum window". I thought that much was obvious so I didnt spell it out. If any of those abilities are not on cooldown and you're sitting there building fury, then you ARE delaying Momentum and you are losing damage.

Evidently people have different ideas of what delaying mean.
Using something later than it could have been used, is what I would consider delaying it.
I do however understand your point after your clarification; but I also understand how people would misunderstand you.