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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    If every raid took those guides as the absolute only way to do a fight no one would progress. They are there to give you a basic understanding of the fight.

    You use the guide to understand, asses your raid makeup and then try what you think will work best. That's why we'll have threads here soon saying the Fatboss guide is stupid as hell and you should do it this way.
    Fatboss is arguably the best when it comes to guides imo. Doesn't tell you exactly how to do it but recommends instead along with "this is what we did" to help you if you want to do a similar tactic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I see no reason why lots of wipes and learning would piss people off, unless ofc they shared your view that bosses should be killed asap and playing the game wasn't very interesting.

    Personally I do the guides and watch vids etc but I can see how people who did it the other way have lost something they liked.
    A lot of wipes piss any sane person off after a while. Especially if like I said that 1 person was wiping to the same thing consistently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    As someone who's been playing since vanilla I'd say you learn a fight faster coming up with your own guild strat other than going after an already made strat. That's how we did it back then kids. Don't get me wrong I also think you should know the basics of a fight before going in. But by doing it as Fatboss does for example makes it very unintuitive for a player and it might be harder to pull off.

    That's why I think the PTR is important. It doesn't matter what skill or goals you have as guild, you should always try and get a few people trying fights out on the PTR. Because it's there you really learn how a fight work and you come up with your own way to do it.
    This. Own strats are fine. But I do believe guides are fine. But more so used as a stepping stone as well and not an actual way to do a fight.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Telomerase View Post
    This is a stupid expectation that kills RPG and fantasy. It's like watching all the spoilers you can about a movie you really want to see before going to see it: pointless.

    WoW is a game not a freaking second job.
    It's a game, and some people have more fun in the game when they successfully complete their goal

  3. #103
    treat it like a resume. they just say shit to weed out the bads who get easily intimidated. ie. 15 years of experience required. but they will hire you for 5 if youre a baller.
    The most trusted and reliable mainstream republican website: http://Dailystormer.com

  4. #104
    WoW players tend to be the sort of folks you used to see leaving Gamestop with a new title and the strategy guide in the same bag. You shouldn't be surprised at pug expectations.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    WoW players tend to be the sort of folks you used to see leaving Gamestop with a new title and the strategy guide in the same bag. You shouldn't be surprised at pug expectations.
    That was ONE time and I just bought Cata when I was still a baby to WoW

  6. #106
    Pit Lord Fallen Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    Then why do we play WoW this way?
    Because it's not just your subscription. It's yours and the other people you are playing with. If the groups' expectations are to know fights, know them, lie, or find another group. Just because you find the discovery of an encounter's mechanics fun, does not mean everyone in your group should.

    And yes, there are people who try and optimize single player games. Speed running is a thing and they spend extraordinary amounts of time and effort sharing strats and pathing. It doesn't mean they are doing it wrong, they are doing it in the way they enjoy.

  7. #107
    Bloodsail Admiral Animalhouse's Avatar
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    Join a group where 10+ people need to COORDINATE in order to overcome multiple objectives and people are wondering if they need to know what is going on...

    Are people really asking this question? Arguing about it?
    Of f&$king course you need to know what is going on and read up/watch each boss you will be doing before you join a raid.

    I was actually pulled aside by our GM because I asked that guildies have 830+ item level, 16 artifact point and use DBM + GTFO.
    That is not asking a lot and if I am leading the damn raid last thing I want to deal with is a wipe-fest and ruin moral and waste everyone's time.

    What has happened to this game?! Even if you tank an LFR you better damn well study encounter mechanics.
    “We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.”

  8. #108
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    What went wrong with this games community? How can we fix it?
    ? With so many videos and strats out there how can you expect to raid and not know the fights?

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Animalhouse View Post
    Join a group where 10+ people need to COORDINATE in order to overcome multiple objectives and people are wondering if they need to know what is going on...

    Are people really asking this question? Arguing about it?
    Of f&$king course you need to know what is going on and read up/watch each boss you will be doing before you join a raid.

    I was actually pulled aside by our GM because I asked that guildies have 830+ item level, 16 artifact point and use DBM + GTFO.
    That is not asking a lot and if I am leading the damn raid last thing I want to deal with is a wipe-fest and ruin moral and waste everyone's time.

    What has happened to this game?! Even if you tank an LFR you better damn well study encounter mechanics.
    LFR has mechanics?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Animalhouse View Post
    Join a group where 10+ people need to COORDINATE in order to overcome multiple objectives and people are wondering if they need to know what is going on...

    Are people really asking this question? Arguing about it?
    Of f&$king course you need to know what is going on and read up/watch each boss you will be doing before you join a raid.

    I was actually pulled aside by our GM because I asked that guildies have 830+ item level, 16 artifact point and use DBM + GTFO.
    That is not asking a lot and if I am leading the damn raid last thing I want to deal with is a wipe-fest and ruin moral and waste everyone's time.

    What has happened to this game?! Even if you tank an LFR you better damn well study encounter mechanics.
    We don't. Haven't since MoP.

    But yeah, it's impossible.

  11. #111
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    I'm gonna watch a walkthrough of zelda before I play it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    Yeah let me look up a walkthrough of mega man before I play the game!

    If you don't want to die that is a good option. If you don't care about dying, maybe you should find a raid group that doesn't care.

  12. #112
    Scarab Lord Tyrgannus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    To me, most of the thrill of a new raid is learning the encounters. If you research all the bosses then you already know what to expect and it's not new or exciting.
    This. So much this. OP is asserting that the game is more than gear collection and perfect execution.

    This game is a game and as such is meant to be played. Learning is a very fun part of games for me. I've raided in every age of this game, and I don't like the concept of having to know fights the day it's released. Completely spoils it. When I bought a PS1 game back in the day, it was the stuff I didn't know and expect that was the most memorable for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    I do not have enough hands to apply enough palms to my face.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrgannus View Post
    This. So much this. OP is asserting that the game is more than gear collection and perfect execution.

    This game is a game and as such is meant to be played. Learning is a very fun part of games for me. I've raided in every age of this game, and I don't like the concept of having to know fights the day it's released. Completely spoils it. When I bought a PS1 game back in the day, it was the stuff I didn't know and expect that was the most memorable for me.
    That's all well and good. However, op shouldn't be crying about people who don't share their ideals either. My fun is killing bosses and progressing. I don't expect you to have to know the encounter unless you join my group. If you don't like that I'm sure you can find a group sharing your thoughts on not knowing mechanics.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Animalhouse View Post
    Join a group where 10+ people need to COORDINATE in order to overcome multiple objectives and people are wondering if they need to know what is going on...

    Are people really asking this question? Arguing about it?
    Of f&$king course you need to know what is going on and read up/watch each boss you will be doing before you join a raid.

    I was actually pulled aside by our GM because I asked that guildies have 830+ item level, 16 artifact point and use DBM + GTFO.
    That is not asking a lot and if I am leading the damn raid last thing I want to deal with is a wipe-fest and ruin moral and waste everyone's time.

    What has happened to this game?! Even if you tank an LFR you better damn well study encounter mechanics.
    People used to throw themselves into encounters totally blindfolded before and it turned out fine. When you entered a raid for the first time you were expected to wipe a lot.

    So I'll turn that question right back at you. What has happened to this game were people expect to one shot every encounter the first evening?

    Having a proper ilvl and looking at a video will only give you a certain amount of information about a fight. Executing it yourself it's a totally different story.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    Hm. People complain about the game being "easy" and "no sense of discovery" that "gear is handled on a plate". Yet people expects others to already know what the boss will do, how to counter its ability. Move to A. Interrupt B. Watch for C. Pick up D etc.

    Are we playing a game or simply following a "How to kill boss blah in 10 easy steps" instruction video?

    Would we play a single player video game this way? Read all there is know about the game, the most optimal way to get the gear? No? Then why do we play WoW this way?
    People complain the game is not challenging enough, and at the same time expect everyone to have mastered and over-geared encounters before even attempting them.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by grandgato View Post
    People complain the game is not challenging enough, and at the same time expect everyone to have mastered and over-geared encounters before even attempting them.
    Well they just want 'smooth runs'

  17. #117
    Week 1 Mythic Violet hold group asked if I had experience. Week 1, and VH. Good lord.

  18. #118
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrgannus View Post
    This. So much this. OP is asserting that the game is more than gear collection and perfect execution.

    This game is a game and as such is meant to be played. Learning is a very fun part of games for me. I've raided in every age of this game, and I don't like the concept of having to know fights the day it's released. Completely spoils it. When I bought a PS1 game back in the day, it was the stuff I didn't know and expect that was the most memorable for me.

    So you want everyone to play how YOU play instead of just finding a group that plays like you?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    What went wrong with this games community? How can we fix it?
    open public beta happened no need to discuss it - you want slow learning fights ? then blizzard need to make closed non disclosure beta simple.

  20. #120
    Im sure there is a youtube video or atleast some sort of information about the fight you can look up......

    Your just somebody who expects people to carry you it sounds like.

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