Day1 of raid - "know the fights" required

[Queen of Hamsters]

Look at yourself in a mirror.

With how readily available fight mechanics and guides are, you're pulling others down by not at least preparing for tacts by reading the journal in-game.

I learn by doing, but I still make sure to read and look at videos to get a heads up. Challenge should come from executing tactics as a group, not from first having to educate people that cba to be at least aware of mechanics beforehand. That goes double for pug groups, where you're working with strangers.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I don't know about everyone, but I know that learning the fight by actually fighting the boss rather than filling my mind with hours of theory is much more enjoyable.

Raiders who just want the loot are fine, but admitedly they skip a huge chunk of the fun just to stay temporarilly relevant.

[Darkeon]

With the tools available in-game and all the resources available outside of it, only someone who absolutely doesn't give a damn about progressing goes into a raid fight completely unprepared and clueless about tactics.

So I don't agree at all that this is a community issue.

[callipygoustp]

What went wrong with this games community? How can we fix it?

Its up to you decide who you want to raid with. If you don't want to research raids before raiding, make sure you join a raid team with like minded folk. Otherwise, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[Animalhouse]

People used to throw themselves into encounters totally blindfolded before and it turned out fine. When you entered a raid for the first time you were expected to wipe a lot.

So I'll turn that question right back at you. What has happened to this game were people expect to one shot every encounter the first evening?

Having a proper ilvl and looking at a video will only give you a certain amount of information about a fight. Executing it yourself it's a totally different story.

Never said anything about "one shot every encounter". But I did say I don't want to waste everyone's time in a wipe-fest.
Will a group that does BASIC and important steps wipe? YES, is it ok? YES.
How many wipes? Well now, that depends on the group. With a group of familiar people and close friends it is not a huge deal to wipe 10+ times as long as everyone is having a good time. In a group with a lot of new guildies from different progression experiences this number can be a lot lower.
Tensions flair and there is always the odd officer/gm whose temper and frustration can really sour the group. I HATE this and despite how I come off in the forum am a very laid back guy...BUT I want people to have a good time and multiple wipes have never been a good time for most groups I have been in for the last 12 years. Extremely odd that some of you play the same game I do and have had the..*ahem* privilege of ramming your heads in a wall over and over with a bunch of like minded people until you figure the fight out.

I think Chris Rock says it best:
"You can drive a car with your feet if you want to, but it doesn't make it a good f&#king idea!"

[Deleted]

Best part of raiding mythic with a guild, thats been togheter since Vanilla. We dont look up tactics or boss fights. We go in on release and wing it. We scream at eachother for being stupid and have a laugh about it. Wiping on bosses cause of stupid shit is the best part of raiding.
Like wiping on Deconstructor in Ulduar due to the voiceacting.

[analmoose]

To me, most of the thrill of a new raid is learning the encounters. If you research all the bosses then you already know what to expect and it's not new or exciting.

This so much, fuck anyone that thinks you're being lazy or bad or whatever because you don't want to watch videos and read strategies for bosses instead of going in, having fun, and learning / experiencing the dungeon for the first time. If you're a top tier raider sure, don't expect otherwise, but no one else sohuld be expected to know the fights before setting foot into a new raid.

[Murderdoll]

Are you really that fucking lazy that you cannot go and even look at a basic rundown of abilities?

[unfilteredJW]

So you want everyone to play how YOU play instead of just finding a group that plays like you?

Did you choke a little on the irony you just spit out?

[Grym]

Raiders who just want the loot are fine, but admitedly they skip a huge chunk of the fun just to stay temporarilly relevant.

What is fun to you may not be for them (so they didn't miss out), what is fun for them may not be for you.

You may find exploring the fight more fun but they might not think spending a night wiping is very fun.

[Krazzorx]

Because blocking out 3-4 hrs a day for 3-4 days (or more or less) a week for most people is a major commitment. They are giving up something to do this. So most want to use their time as efficiently as possible. It is much easier to take out 15 minutes of your own time whenever to give some slight advantage.

[Grym]

Did you choke a little on the irony you just spit out?

Why is that? He is telling OP to go find like minded people, and form guild that doesn't look up strat and enjoy it all together, instead of being the only one in the group not looking up strat and expect the other 9 people to play like you do.

[unfilteredJW]

Time for me to go home from work and wipe all evening learning boss fights because I'm lazy entitled.

Good luck tonight, all!

[Orange Joe]

Did you choke a little on the irony you just spit out?

What irony? No one is forcing him to watch strats if he doesn't want to. He can find a group that doesn't.


Meanwhile he wants everyone to not watch strats so he doesn't get "spoiled"

[Aori]

Raids used to be learning an encounter and forming your own strategy. Remember when raid leaders actually lead instead of being kick masters? The majority who raid today are nothing but cheaters in my eyes. You need addons and strategy guides.

So if you need to watch a youtube video on how to do the fight, you're the real lazy players.

[Animalhouse]

Are you really that fucking lazy that you cannot go and even look at a basic rundown of abilities?

Sadly enough Murderdoll this is the reality. People in this forum never cease to amaze me. I just have to tell myself that they do not represent the majority, but then I log in...

[unfilteredJW]

Why is that? He is telling OP to go find like minded people, and form guild that doesn't look up strat and enjoy it all together, instead of being the only one in the group not looking up strat and expect the other 9 people to play like you do.

You, too.

/10laughs

[babyback]

It's stupid to expect other people to carry you. If you raid for RPG and fantasy, awesome dude, more power to you, but not everyone is there to sight-see like you. Comparing a raider's preparation to spoiling a movie is out of context. You don't upset a large amount of people when you spoil a movie, you only upset yourself. When you don't prepare for a raid encounter, you DO upset other gamers because you're doing stupid shit that could have easily been avoided. If doing that feels like a chore to you, maybe you shouldn't get loot from those bosses you were carried through.

WoW is not Mario cart. Some people do take this game seriously because we have limited time to play it (kids, jobs, school, etc), and I don't want to waste my time on people like you who claim efficiency is "stupid". Your line of thinking is extremely selfish because you're being inconsiderate of the other players. There ARE guilds who cater to your kind, though, and I'm sure they're full of really smart people.

It totally depends on what level you raid. If you're a flex raider it's totally fine going in blindfolded during normal mode. It's really not that hard and if you've done it on normal you can do it on heroic. If you claim to be a serious raider I assume you're a mythic raider, so am I and there is were the preparation is.

I find this whole argument pretty stupid because those who claim to be serious raiders should be in serious guilds. If you're puging you're not a serious raider, you take it too seriously if you expect people to have done extensive research, but you aren't raiding in any kind of serious environment. In most cases the try hards in pugs are mostly an annoyance. If it's due to time restraints then join a guild that's suitable for you.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

What is fun to you may not be for them (so they didn't miss out), what is fun for them may not be for you.

You may find exploring the fight more fun but they might not think spending a night wiping is very fun.

I'm not saying that it's wrong per say, yet I can't help but feel that figuring things out is half the fun. Nothing beats that feeling you get when you finally find the answer to your problem.

But I have to ask: What's the reward to clear a raid repeatedly if all you really get is loot? What's the incentive? Why do you log every other night to kill the same things over and over?

Understand that I ask this out of curiosity, not judgement.

[Fenixdown]

I'm gonna watch a walkthrough of zelda before I play it.

Some people do that. So...yeah.

However, that being said, Zelda isn't a multi-player game. In any multi-player game, your team is only as strong as your weakest link. I started raiding late in vanilla and the guild I was in had a list of requirements for me to even enter the raid, one of which was at least have some basic understanding of the fights they were doing. And those were fights they certainly didn't need me alive for in order to complete. But, being the newest member, I was the weakest link, and if I single-handedly blew up the raid with the Vael buff (or Geddon debuff, for that matter) or got feared into a whelpling cave or stood too close to chain a giant eyeball laser beam of death to about four healers (and that fight was still a progression fight for them), what were the chances of survival for the team as a whole?

C'mon, man. "This community" has been like this since the first kills in Molten Core. This is not new. Hell, the very website you're posting on has all of the links for the boss strat pages. How long would it take to take a peek at them? Ten minutes?

Don't be the weak link, guy. That's a far greater plague on your team than anything you're spouting.