[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Deleted]

I dont know I just wanted to use the word fool

Word of the day thing.
I dont wear panties good sir
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I wear thongs.

Serious: I do think Carbine can support Wildstar because there other costs seem to be low

They share a studio with BnS.
They have only 50-60 people to pay

I doubt there megaservers are that pricey.

I believe they are working on a nother big content update that will include a new expedition (confirmed) a new dungeon (confirmed) and hardmode Redmoon Terror. As well as have many QoL changes.

I think they are being smart in not releasing much of anything right next to

Legion
Rise of Iron
Gw2 LS 2
FFxiv 3.4

Can the game survive? Yes, if they try hard enough of course it can

They can sustain and support it but the question is, do they want to? Is it bringing them enough to want to invest even further into it?

[Gray_Matter]

Yeah am not getting your signature, the game literally hangs by a thread from what i read almost all servers have been shut down and the very few remaining have been merged.

The switch to a mega-server happened well before the F2P conversion. It's disingenuous to suggest that the changes happened because of the recent drop in numbers such as the Steam concurrent count. Also, not all people play WS through Steam. I don't play it at the moment but there are plenty of problems that they have already. There is no need to lump more, that don't exist, on.

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? As in SWTOR? I'm confused by the comparison here.

I was a bit shocked by that comparison too.

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They can sustain and support it but the question is, do they want to? Is it bringing them enough to want to invest even further into it?

That is the million dollar question. What I don't understand is why they don't go the route of user content. It's a big gamble but if they can pull it off it will be a huge plus. If you can get people to add content and then have Carbine switch to a content vetting organization then they might open a new niche because the one that they have is really small. They would have to build a AI framework and other tools but it's better then sitting and waiting for the end.

[Edge-]

That is the million dollar question. What I don't understand is why they don't go the route of user content. It's a big gamble but if they can pull it off it will be a huge plus. If you can get people to add content and then have Carbine switch to a content vetting organization then they might open a new niche because the one that they have is really small. They would have to build a AI framework and other tools but it's better then sitting and waiting for the end.

They likely don't have the tools to support user generated content, nor the budget/staff to introduce such a system.

And even then, are you talking about users selling stuff in the cash shop a la what Daybreak Games does? Or actual in-game user generated content? Because games continue to poke around in that, with STO/Neverwinter/EQ2 and a few others all having such systems in place in various forms (CoH had one too), but none have really ended up being terribly popular/successful. Good user generated content is pretty damn rare, especially if you don't have a big pool to draw from that comes from a large playerbase.

And even then, none of the developers have really embraced the system and given it the longterm love that it needs. They basically fire it off, throw a bit of support behind it, then largely abandon it. The only way to make it into a successful system is to actively support it on an ongoing basis. That means continually expanding and improving upon the content and tools players have to use, working with the successful content creators to get their content as polished as possible, actively curating it while also providing user curation systems, and more. And given Carbines already thin resources, I can't imagine how they'd be able to justify the budget to implement such a system, much less maintain it, at the moment.

And even then, that type of system needs to exist alongside of a steady stream of content coming from the developers, something that's not even happening now. If you throw the burden of content creation to your users and abandon or barely release any studio content, users will justifiably feel kinda exploited and used.

Seriously though, I'd love to see a MMO really embrace user generated content in this way, but it would need to be a pretty core component of the game from day one, or the central point of a major expansion. It's a huge undertaking.

[ryanmahaffe]

The switch to a mega-server happened well before the F2P conversion. It's disingenuous to suggest that the changes happened because of the recent drop in numbers such as the Steam concurrent count. Also, not all people play WS through Steam. I don't play it at the moment but there are plenty of problems that they have already. There is no need to lump more, that don't exist, on.

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I was a bit shocked by that comparison too.

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That is the million dollar question. What I don't understand is why they don't go the route of user content. It's a big gamble but if they can pull it off it will be a huge plus. If you can get people to add content and then have Carbine switch to a content vetting organization then they might open a new niche because the one that they have is really small. They would have to build a AI framework and other tools but it's better then sitting and waiting for the end.

Personally I think procedural generation would work better than user created.

[Edge-]

Personally I think procedural generation would work better than user created.

...for content in a theme park MMO?...

[ryanmahaffe]

...for content in a theme park MMO?...

Not entire zones or the core of content, but perhaps some instances or a new type of instance like Palace of the dead, I could see WIldstar adding a form of content that spawns random 5 man mobs with random models, and telegraph options

[Edge-]

Not entire zones or the core of content, but perhaps some instances or a new type of instance like Palace of the dead, I could see WIldstar adding a form of content that spawns random 5 man mobs with random models, and telegraph options

There's a reason that most games don't use procedural generation for much, because it's usually absolute rubbish unless you put some strict parameters around it and limit what it's generating (things like maps in an ARPG, being a prime example).

If it was feasible to do in a full fledged theme park MMORPG, developers would have long ago embraced it as it basically nixes a huge chunk of the time and costs associated with content creation after the initial expenditure of creating and implementing the system.

But they haven't, because it's not really feasible. Look at No Man's Sky, for example. While its procedurally generated universe is technically spectacular, there's not really a whole lot of compelling content for most folks. Because procedurally generated content is made with things like "fun" in mind, it's made by an algorithm.

[ryanmahaffe]

There's a reason that most games don't use procedural generation for much, because it's usually absolute rubbish unless you put some strict parameters around it and limit what it's generating (things like maps in an ARPG, being a prime example).

If it was feasible to do in a full fledged theme park MMORPG, developers would have long ago embraced it as it basically nixes a huge chunk of the time and costs associated with content creation after the initial expenditure of creating and implementing the system.

But they haven't, because it's not really feasible. Look at No Man's Sky, for example. While its procedurally generated universe is technically spectacular, there's not really a whole lot of compelling content for most folks. Because procedurally generated content is made with things like "fun" in mind, it's made by an algorithm.

I still think if they did a roguelike style of instance where there are rooms with bosses that get higher health and damage the higher you go, with new random telegraphs.

[StrawberryZebra]

There's a reason that most games don't use procedural generation for much, because it's usually absolute rubbish unless you put some strict parameters around it and limit what it's generating (things like maps in an ARPG, being a prime example).

If it was feasible to do in a full fledged theme park MMORPG, developers would have long ago embraced it as it basically nixes a huge chunk of the time and costs associated with content creation after the initial expenditure of creating and implementing the system.

I don't think it's a case of it not working, I think its more because MMO developers like to tie their quest and dungeon content into their game world as part of the story usually. A zone quest chain that leads up to defeating a boss in a dungeon is still pretty common and a procedural generation would completely remove that story telling option for the devs. It would also remove the option to add in quest content, specially scripted challenges and bosses too, it's very limited in that regard.

There are also lots of problems to tackle before you can add it to an MMO too. For starters it would be pretty jarring if you were in a desert zone when you entered a dungeon, then found yourself in snowy caverns or a jungle. Then you'd need to tightly control the algorithm to make sure that the players are actually capable of moving through the world and not having a boss locked off away separate from the rest of the world, not having 200 spawns of a mob in a single spot and making sure you don't end up with a boss that has a bunch of abilities that make it impossible to beat and all that kind of thing. Realistically speaking, procedural generation for MMOs is almost certainly going to be a lot more hassle than designing one by hand.

But while procedurally generated content never really offers as much as a hand crafted experience, it would do a pretty solid job at filling in the gaps between expansions and such if you used it for Dungeon content exclusively. If nothing else, it's a place where players who've already completed all the raiding content could find something new and interesting to tackle. As an idea, its not without its pros, I just don't think any studio has ever really had a reason to bother with it before because they focus their attention on producing top quality raid content first and foremost usually and getting quality procedural generation up and running is both time consuming and expensive.

[Deleted]

Was just sitting here remembering this game and all the talk on how it's better then WoW and people rushing over totally forgot about this game for almost 2 years, did a little research and it seems the game hangs by a thread it's a centimeter above water doesn't looks like Carbine is gonna do anything to give it a chance seems like there gonna let it keep going the direction it's heading.

The funny thing is...the dungeons are better the raids are better, the combat is better....and housing is just on another level to all other games! Will be a shame if the game ever gets closed down...but life goes on

[Witchblade77]

They likely don't have the tools to support user generated content, nor the budget/staff to introduce such a system.

And even then, are you talking about users selling stuff in the cash shop a la what Daybreak Games does? Or actual in-game user generated content? Because games continue to poke around in that, with STO/Neverwinter/EQ2 and a few others all having such systems in place in various forms (CoH had one too), but none have really ended up being terribly popular/successful. Good user generated content is pretty damn rare, especially if you don't have a big pool to draw from that comes from a large playerbase.

And even then, none of the developers have really embraced the system and given it the longterm love that it needs. They basically fire it off, throw a bit of support behind it, then largely abandon it. The only way to make it into a successful system is to actively support it on an ongoing basis. That means continually expanding and improving upon the content and tools players have to use, working with the successful content creators to get their content as polished as possible, actively curating it while also providing user curation systems, and more. And given Carbines already thin resources, I can't imagine how they'd be able to justify the budget to implement such a system, much less maintain it, at the moment.

And even then, that type of system needs to exist alongside of a steady stream of content coming from the developers, something that's not even happening now. If you throw the burden of content creation to your users and abandon or barely release any studio content, users will justifiably feel kinda exploited and used.

Seriously though, I'd love to see a MMO really embrace user generated content in this way, but it would need to be a pretty core component of the game from day one, or the central point of a major expansion. It's a huge undertaking.

umm... correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't Neverwinter do exactly that? at least in a way I understand Neverwinter Foundry to work.

[Edge-]

umm... correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't Neverwinter do exactly that? at least in a way I understand Neverwinter Foundry to work.

They do, but Cryptic didn't build a brand new system from scratch with limited resources. They expanded upon the foundry tech the introduced in STO and included the user content creation tools into Neverwinter at launch. It's been a while since I did much of a deep dive, but they had some minimal automated featuring support etc. for content that players made. But it wasn't major, and they didn't really actively support it in/out of game for too long.

Most devs have left their UGC alone for the most part, which isn't a great way to grow and sustain a thriving community of content creators who put out good quality content. That's why, for all the promise these systems have had in these games, UGC has continued to fail to achieve the kind of success it has the potential it has.

[bbr]

Summing things up,. after 2750 pages...

Is this game worth playing as a F2P player?
Or, at all for that matter?

It looks good,. but the general stretch of critics claim its way too grindy, you may as well just play wow again rather than try this.
Are they right,. or?

[Kelimbror]

It looks good,. but the general stretch of critics claim its way too grindy, you may as well just play wow again rather than try this.
Are they right,. or?

Oh hell no. If you've never played, you should definitely play. Summary is that content is slow to come out now, so play it for a month or however long it lasts you and put it aside until something new happens. Halloween is a good time to start b/c Shade's Eve is fantastic. There's nothing grindy about this game. There's just not a lot to do.

[Sunseeker]

Summing things up,. after 2750 pages...

Is this game worth playing as a F2P player?
Or, at all for that matter?

It looks good,. but the general stretch of critics claim its way too grindy, you may as well just play wow again rather than try this.
Are they right,. or?

I wouldn't call it grindy, but gameplay wise it did feel like I had just stepped into a sy-fy WoW. BTW: WoW is not grindy, not at alllllllll.

[Deleted]

Summing things up,. after 2750 pages...

Is this game worth playing as a F2P player?
Or, at all for that matter?

It looks good,. but the general stretch of critics claim its way too grindy, you may as well just play wow again rather than try this.
Are they right,. or?

Leveling is a one long and boring grind. It might put you off from playing rest of the game.

[Kokolums]

The funny thing is...the dungeons are better the raids are better, the combat is better....and housing is just on another level to all other games! Will be a shame if the game ever gets closed down...but life goes on

Wildstar is a game that missed the entire point of an MMO.

The #1 priority for an MMO is to build a thriving in-game community. Instead, the Wildstar devs think the core feature should be incredible raids. That is wrong (as surprising as that may be to some people). If you build a game with great raids and no attention paid to the in-game community, the game will die.

MMOs are about people. I've talked to a lot of people who played MMOs. I ask them their fondest memories. And it almost always about the people, the community, how they shared experiences and had fun together.

You need a dev team filled with extroverted people. You could hire the best programmer ever to build the game, but if they hate being in crowded places and want to sit on a lonely beach quietly somewhere, they will fail because they won't understand the human element.

There's a reason a game like Diablo 2 can go 16 years without an xpac and thrive. Its because the game has a strong social element. There a reason why Blizzard can build tons of new features and new worlds for WoW while destroying the in-game community and watch subs fall. Because the most important aspect is the social aspect. Its #1 by a country mile. There should be no compromise. In no way should the social aspect be neglected. but that's what modern MMOs do, Wildstar included.

World of Warcraft can be toppled, but it requires an MMO build around a thriving in-game community which NO GAMING COMPANY is doing. Everyone is trying to provide cool features and great raids and forgetting its about the PEOPLE. its about RELATIONSHIPS. There a HUGE hole for some MMO to break out and take the lead but everyone is missing the target.

[Deleted]

Everyone is trying to provide cool features and great raids and forgetting its about the PEOPLE. its about RELATIONSHIPS. There a HUGE hole for some MMO to break out and take the lead but everyone is missing the target.

It's the same rule for IRL. You don't need war, you don't need birth control, you don't need crossbreeding, multiculturalism, physical migration, you don't need politic anymore, you don't need theology, because now the Pandora box internet is OPEN.... We are all together already, we can learn every langage online easily, talk with billion of peupel.... but still there is some useless violence and stupid shit just to break up the base of the pyramid...

Just because that's how the Deceiver is about: the Ourobouros... It doesn't know, how to do, beside been a fucking useless pedophile moron.

Please post productively and on-topic. Infracted. -Edge

[Deleted]

Wildstar is a game that missed the entire point of an MMO.

The #1 priority for an MMO is to build a thriving in-game community. Instead, the Wildstar devs think the core feature should be incredible raids. That is wrong (as surprising as that may be to some people). If you build a game with great raids and no attention paid to the in-game community, the game will die.

MMOs are about people. I've talked to a lot of people who played MMOs. I ask them their fondest memories. And it almost always about the people, the community, how they shared experiences and had fun together.

You need a dev team filled with extroverted people. You could hire the best programmer ever to build the game, but if they hate being in crowded places and want to sit on a lonely beach quietly somewhere, they will fail because they won't understand the human element.

There's a reason a game like Diablo 2 can go 16 years without an xpac and thrive. Its because the game has a strong social element. There a reason why Blizzard can build tons of new features and new worlds for WoW while destroying the in-game community and watch subs fall. Because the most important aspect is the social aspect. Its #1 by a country mile. There should be no compromise. In no way should the social aspect be neglected. but that's what modern MMOs do, Wildstar included.

World of Warcraft can be toppled, but it requires an MMO build around a thriving in-game community which NO GAMING COMPANY is doing. Everyone is trying to provide cool features and great raids and forgetting its about the PEOPLE. its about RELATIONSHIPS. There a HUGE hole for some MMO to break out and take the lead but everyone is missing the target.

THIS!!! so much this!!!!!
The only MMO that has come close to this for me right now is FFXIV and it is why I play it. I know many people might disagree with me but my server has a very nice and tight community and the community element is very strong and present in this game.

[Kelimbror]

Most people have moved away from social aspects of game being the large draw. Gameplay, design, and rewards structures are what keep people playing games. There are many successful games without social features and no games with amazing social features will thrive without the three elements that actually make it a game. I could go into great detail on this topic, but we've really covered it already.

Social aspects take great games and make them greater, but really when you say 'social' you just need a game to connect you to people easily and with meaning. You don't actually need to have a social drive woven into the game. Requiring you to 'need' people without automatically giving you those people in an instant is abject failure in this era. No games are doing this anymore for the most part.