Let's talk about Il'gynoth and his whispers (various spoilers)

[Theoris]

Amazing discussion. I have nothing new to add to the theories as they seem to be all well founded, for the most part. However, there is something here that I don't understand.

1) "Your coming was foretold in the rings. The long circle is nearly complete."

What rings? Is it referring to the rings of the World Tree? The long circle seems to be the end of imprisonment of the Old Gods.

2) Il'gynoth seems to be a weird sort of collective consciousness - note how he/she says "I" sometimes and "we" some other times.

"Come, little ones, savor your fear as we feast upon it!"

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it."

"Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path."

"Aaarg! Every blow struck at our heart will be repaid a thousand-fold!"

"N'Zoth... I journey... to Ny'alotha..."

The Old Gods like to be cryptic. Until whatever these things refer to (at least the less obvious ones) are revealed speculation and theory are all we have, so it's anyone's guess what it all actually means.

The thing is though, it says "we" throughout the fight from start to near finish, except at the end where it says "I". What is Il'gynoth actually?

Il'gynoth is a "manifestation of the horrors that lie at the heart of the Nightmare", meaning it's a part of N'zoth. Same deal as with Xal'atath (although we don't know which Old God it came from).

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, an in game book in the warlock order hall says that during the wota when the well collapsed, sargeras for a moment stood in front of azeroth and she opened one eye, sargeras basically "fell in love with her" and wants to have some sexy titan time while corrupting her.

.....Neat.

[Onvious]

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it."
why lot of ppl thinks its Jaina? clearly this sentence for Azeroth.

[Raetary]

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it."
why lot of ppl thinks its Jaina? clearly this sentence for Azeroth.

It refers to a broken heart, when the hell did someone break the heart of azeroth?
Jaina is in general hellish broken.

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[Aeula]

Third one is Jaina. That's for sure.

[willtron]

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it."
why lot of ppl thinks its Jaina? clearly this sentence for Azeroth.

Because Theramore. I agree, I think it's Azeroth, I think it's bigger than Jaina.

[Okacz]

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it."
why lot of ppl thinks its Jaina? clearly this sentence for Azeroth.

Yeah, that one is intriguing. It indeed seems to be about Azeroth.

So the chances are, when Aman'Thul dude killed Y'Shaajr by ripping it off the planet, he has damaged it even more than he thought. He left a huge wound, which was exploited by N'Zoth, who filled it with Old God stuff (eww), and basically corrupted Azeroth. So now, the dormant titan we have inside our planet is already corrupted, and the only one who knows about it is Sargeras himself - which is why he is this desperate about destroying Azeroth. It's not about his fear that Azeroth will become a void titan, she already IS one, but hasn't woken up yet like other titans.

Magni as a "Diamond King" is talking not to Azeroth as he thinks he is, but rather to N'Zoth himself. He is the pawn. What he wants us to achieve actually serves the Old Gods. And he wants us to get the Pillars of Creation - probably the Five Keys mentioned.

Since Pillars are artifacts of great power and titanic origins, they might be used as the key of awaking Azeroth. Queen Azshara posessed one, and she is rather on Old Gods side - maybe she was told to give Tidestone to mortals, and she masked it as a challenge for us. Another hint might be the "Circle of Stars" - this might refer to Nightwell powered by the most powerful Pillar - Eye of Aman'Thul.

"The lord of ravens will turn the key." - we were wondering how Karazhan is supposed to fit into the mix. Perhaps the power of the Guardian is the only thing that can use the power of the Pillars to free Azeroth. And why is Legion trying to take over Karazhan anyway? Maybe to destroy the last remaining echoes and power of Medivh lingering there, to ensure no one would be able to.

The only thing that seems kinda off is Boy-King and his lies. Sounds like Anduin. Is he posessed by the Old Gods? Will he be? Stormwind Church of Light should be destroyed, this is like the 3rd this this happens. Gotta watch out for what this guy says.

So the expansion will continue with a twist. We would have been played for fools for collecting Pillars, Old God powers would start emerging around the whole Azeroth, and newly resurrected Medivh would start the ritual to awaken Azeroth. This would cause us to team up with Sargeras and his Legion, who through the ages has attempted to destroy obviously doomed Azeroth, with us constantly interfering, halting him from saving the universe. Illidan fits into the mix as the leader of the resistance against Old Gods, a being who is partially demon, able to command both us and the Legion on Azeroth.

Or, you know. Il'gynoth is just messing with us, the usual Old God way.

[Deleted]

Or, you know. Il'gynoth is just messing with us, the usual Old God way.

Half-truths are far more potent than outright lies when the Old Gods do their shit talking and corruption. They allow for some amount of bragging when their plans finally come to fruition.

[Deleted]

I had a quote in raid today that I haven't seen anyone else post:

"At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming"

Not quite sure what to make of it.... who do we know has 'died' two times so far, either figuratively or literally?

This is a reference to Sylvanas. Her first death was when Arthas killed her, her second death was when she threw herself off of the Icecrown Citadel after Arthas' death. I can only imagine that she'll be resurrected again by her Valkyr, or something goes terribly wrong after what she pulled in Stormheim...

"The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies he will offer you."

I believe this refers to Wrathion. One, Anduin so far has not yet lied, painstakingly sticking to the truth even when it would serve him better to lie. Two, since he already claimed himself to be Prince, and now with Deathwing dead it's not unthinkable to see him as the 'king' of the Black Dragonflight (even if it's being king of an empty hall). Furthermore we KNOW he lied to us in the past already, seen in the Pandaria legendary cloak chain (him striking deals with both the Alliance and Horde while telling either sides he's only loyal to them), and it's not unimaginable to see him lie again to further his own/Azeroth's goals in the bigger scheme of things.

Fourth, I don't think it's weird that the Old Gods would see Wrathion as just another pawn, seeing as they already got their fleshy hooks into Deathwing before.

[mingarrubia]

The boy-king could also be Moira's son.

[Deleted]

The boy-king could also be Moira's son.

Wouldn't, technically speaking, Moira's son be a boy-emperor?

[mingarrubia]

Wouldn't, technically speaking, Moira's son be a boy-emperor?

King of Ironforge, Emperor of Blackrock.

[Deleted]

The Old gods rarely outright lied to us actually. Most of Yogg Saron puzzle box and the Yogg Saron's visions have already proven to be relevant.

Sentences like "Your friends will betray you" or "you will die alone" are just generic threats, not specific informations.

[Gallahadd]

Damn, this is some straight up Lovecraft level fuckery.

So are we thinking final/penultimate raid will be us accidentally popping open N'zoths prison and ruining everything for everyone?

Because I would be OK with that.

[Okacz]

This is a reference to Sylvanas. Her first death was when Arthas killed her, her second death was when she threw herself off of the Icecrown Citadel after Arthas' death. I can only imagine that she'll be resurrected again by her Valkyr, or something goes terribly wrong after what she pulled in Stormheim...

Sylvanas died 3 times already. You missed the one at Gilneas, when Godfrey killed her. So it's probably not about her.

[Deleted]

I disagree, the heart is not Jaina but Azeroth. All the whispers have a red thread common and that is the "core" of the world.

The boy king is most likely Wrathion, aka The black Prince, and not Andiun. Wrathions first lie was in MoP , second one beginning of WoD when he assisted the escape of Garrosh into AU universe. Third one is yet to be seen.

[Al Gorefiend]

All lies. When have Old Gods ever been direct and truthful?

And HER is Azeroth, the planet. Get off the Jaina circlejerk. Why would Old Gods fill Jaina's crater heart?

[Rafoel]

Interesting... here is my interpretation:

1) The king of diamonds has been made a pawn - obvious one, Magni isn't actually serving Azeroth, he servers uknowingly something else... N'zoth
2) Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path. - reference to Pillars of Creation, are they actually the keys to N'zoth's prison? Is it actually explained WHY exactly pillars exist?
3) To find him, drown yourself in a circle of stars - drown... water... well... stars... night... Nightwell! N'zoth is trapped beneath the Nightwell?
4) The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies he will offer you. - this one I have no idea. Boy-king is probably Anduin, but three lies? Maybe it's a reference to events in future patch?
5) Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it. - I see obvious reference... Azshara Crater was a thing... Azshara could also be descrived as having literally a crater instead of heart... Old Gods transformed and possesed her, that's known. Azshara will appear and make a mess in our plans.
6) The lord of ravens will turn the key. - that must be Khadgar... he constantly transforms into raven, and he is the one gathering the Pillars exactly to "turn the key" and close the portal.
7) Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator. - Curse of Flesh. N'zoth

[Deleted]

All lies. When have Old Gods ever been direct and truthful?

Yogg-Saron's visions?

Yogg-Saron puzzle box?

[Aucald]

2) Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path. - reference to Pillars of Creation, are they actually the keys to N'zoth's prison? Is it actually explained WHY exactly pillars exist?

The Pillars were implements gifted by the Titans to the Keepers to assist them with their job of Ordering Azeroth, at least based on what we've been told by Alodi's spirit in the vignette before Dalaran was teleported to the Broken Isles. I think the Pillars are exactly what they say on the tin, but they can obviously be used for other things (which is also why Azshara herself was after the Tidestone), and N'Zoth believes that they can be used to free him completely from his prison.

[Deleted]

Regarding Wrathions lies. "I do not share my father's madness". "Let's just say, I am... unaffiliated. And I am always on the lookout for like-minded heroes" (Kairoz)

Also was it not Magni that told Khadgar to find the 5 pillar keys. He also refers himself as a key.