Getting kicked because playing marksmanship

[Deleted]

Today with the new Mythic+ I am encountering some issues

Group leaders ask me about my spec, when I say marksmanship I get insta declined / kicked

I think that marksmanship performs good in mythic+. Do you think the difference between BM and MM is that big that people don't want to play with MM hunters even when I am a decent mythic raider? I think that marksmanship do enough DPS, but I would like to receive some insight

If more experienced hunters here say that the declines are justified I will think to switch to BM for mythic+

Cheers

[Arcanines]

The leader doesn't want to lose his keystone, why he pugs M+ is over my head. But his reason is that BM is better than MM, in most of the cases in dungeons, and therefor he doesn't want to have a guy playing a suboptimal spec, even if its only a few % of dmg.

[Charge me Doctor]

It was a dude who pugged for M+, that's your answer. You shouldn't switch to BM for M+, you should look for (it's a hard way by the way) a group to fit it, or create your own (it's an easy way by the way).

[ReVnX]

And this is one of the reasons I won't be setting a foot in Mythic+. It will be full of pretentious wannabe hardcores that don't give a single fuck about actual skill

[Deleted]

The leader doesn't want to lose his keystone, why he pugs M+ is over my head. But his reason is that BM is better than MM, in most of the cases in dungeons, and therefor he doesn't want to have a guy playing a suboptimal spec, even if its only a few % of dmg.

Yeah, of course, it is his group so his rules, but I don't see the difference between BM and MM relevant

You say MM is suboptimal, but this is taking into account the player has the same skill in both specs, this is not the case for 90% of players including myself

Even with optimal play, BM doing 5-10k more dps than MM thats not relevant in a dungeon

Knowing the mechanics is

Not dying is

However I post his so maybe people read it and the madness doesn't grow

It was a dude who pugged for M+, that's your answer. You shouldn't switch to BM for M+, you should look for (it's a hard way by the way) a group to fit it, or create your own (it's an easy way by the way).

And this is one of the reasons I won't be setting a foot in Mythic+. It will be full of pretentious wannabe hardcores that don't give a single fuck about actual skill

Thank you, I hope I can do mythic+ with my guildies, but today is the 1st day and guild groups are still not formed

[K4sk]

My issue with MM in dungeons is that Sidewinder (last talent row) often pulls adds. I feel like it's WAY worse than Barrage.. It also hits shit in the air. I remember doing the achievement "Stag Party" near Fenryr in Halls of Valor. When trying to kill the drake my Sidewinder would pull dragons from the air which almost fucked it up.

BM is just super consistent and strong aoe. No real risk of pulling either since you generally use Volley.

Mythic+ is basically like Greater Rifts in Diablo 3. The majority of players always demanded the cookie cutter setup, I'd expect nothing less from the WoW community. If BM hunter is deemed the best AoE ranged class/spec, I'd assume nobody would want a survival or MM hunter.

[Charge me Doctor]

My issue with MM in dungeons is that Sidewinder (last talent row) often pulls adds. I feel like it's WAY worse than Barrage.. It also hits shit in the air. I remember doing the achievement "Stag Party" near Fenryr in Halls of Valor. When trying to kill the drake my Sidewinder would pull dragons from the air which almost fucked it up.

BM is just super consistent and strong aoe. No real risk of pulling either since you generally use Volley.

Mythic+ is basically like Greater Rifts in Diablo 3. The majority of players always demanded the cookie cutter setup, I'd expect nothing less from the WoW community. If BM hunter is deemed the best AoE ranged class/spec, I'd assume nobody would want a survival or MM hunter.

I've been kicked of several mythic (the ones that are heroics in disguise, not mythic+) groups for speccing into cinderstorm. Like, what the fuck?

[pmkaboo]

maybe the group needed a melee?

[Charge me Doctor]

maybe the group needed a melee?

Nah, that would be too reasonable for pugs

[Okacz]

I've been kicked of several mythic (the ones that are heroics in disguise, not mythic+) groups for speccing into cinderstorm. Like, what the fuck?

That's messed up, nobody has yet kicked me for being SV. Hell, sometimes I'd kick myself for being SV.

Isn't Conderstorm a good pick for AoE tho? What's up with that, I keep seeing Fire Mages playing it in Mythics, thought it's a go to talent.

[Flurryfang]

Today with the new Mythic+ I am encountering some issues

Group leaders ask me about my spec, when I say marksmanship I get insta declined / kicked

I think that marksmanship performs good in mythic+. Do you think the difference between BM and MM is that big that people don't want to play with MM hunters even when I am a decent mythic raider? I think that marksmanship do enough DPS, but I would like to receive some insight

If more experienced hunters here say that the declines are justified I will think to switch to BM for mythic+

Cheers

Don't pug Mythic+ in the first 3 weeks, there is your answer. The group finder is full of elitist jerks atm, since many hardcore raiders, who have insane standards, are out there atm. Just do mythic+ with a guild or a friend group undtil mythic Nightmare is cleared. Then people should be a little less extreme when it comes to this.

[Deleted]

Don't pug Mythic+ in the first 3 weeks, there is your answer. The group finder is full of elitist jerks atm, since many hardcore raiders, who have insane standards, are out there atm. Just do mythic+ with a guild or a friend group undtil mythic Nightmare is cleared. Then people should be a little less extreme when it comes to this.

Yeah, I won't pug anymore for Mythic+ that's for sure

Now my question is: How much better is BM than MM for mythic+?

[Deleted]

He could have asked you for your opinion on lasagna. If he didn't like the answer he was in his full right to kick you. And no, he was not a douchebag for doing so. Why you might ask? Well, sit down Timmy and let me explain. It was his group. You don't have any kind of right to be in it. End of story.

If the "I got kicked from X because of X" and "I won't get invited because of X" people started their own groups, allowing everyone and anyone in, the "problem" would be solved.

What baffles my mind is that it literally takes more effort/time to come to these forums and write a post/thread about it than it takes to actually start a group.

[Flurryfang]

Yeah, I won't pug anymore for Mythic+ that's for sure

Now my question is: How much better is BM than MM for mythic+?

In some situations, quite alot But overall, not very much You should on average see BM hunters be both worse and better then you in dps overall If you look at high % of optimization, then you will see the difference, but very few people go up there. On normal single target fights, most classes are not insanely far apart in dps

- - - Updated - - -

He could have asked you for your opinion on lasagna. If he didn't like the answer he was in his full right to kick you. And no, he was not a douchebag for doing so. Why you might ask? Well, sit down Timmy and let me explain. It was his group. You don't have any kind of right to be in it. End of story.

If the "I got kicked from X because of X" and "I won't get invited because of X" people started their own groups, allowing everyone and anyone in, the "problem" would be solved.

What baffles my mind is that it literally takes more effort/time to come to these forums and write a post/thread about it than it takes to actually start a group.

This thread is all about talking about the requirements which other players put up for content, which normally would not require the specific thing. This is just like the thread about players asking 850+ for court of stars mythic. Sure, people can ask for whatever they want, when it comes to their own groups, but it is an unhealthy evolution if people require these things for trivial content.

[Deleted]

comparing bm to mm in m+ is like comparing ferrari with opel

end of discussion

[supertigerlamp]

I won't condone that kind of behavior, and I'm a big proponent of playing the spec you prefer for pretty much any content (as long as it's competitive), but I'll have to admit Marks Hunters are not the first place I'd look for Ranged DPS in M+. That's not a commentary on the performance of the spec, Hunters in general, or the people playing Hunters, it's a commentary on how problematic their abilities can be, and how little discipline a lot of Hunters seem to have in the use of said abilities.

Between Sidewinders and Barrage, the potential for unwanted adds, particularly in heavily congested and/or tight quarters like the table room in Halls of Valor is way too high. Other classes have similar issues with "wandering" dots, like Fire Mages and Unholy DKs, but those two generally only become an issue if a mob bounces too close to other mobs, and rarely do they have the potential of mass pulling. You can probably recover from a single extra pack. An entire room and your run might be fubar.

I certainly wouldn't deny a Marks Hunter if I knew the player to be solid, but I think you'd have to make certain to be mindful of their potential to be accidentally problematic, and probably gameplan around it in some situations. It's unfortunate that for such a quintessential class Blizzard can't get the design on Hunter abilities just right.

[Charge me Doctor]

That's messed up, nobody has yet kicked me for being SV. Hell, sometimes I'd kick myself for being SV.

Isn't Conderstorm a good pick for AoE tho? What's up with that, I keep seeing Fire Mages playing it in Mythics, thought it's a go to talent.

Exactly. Probably because people see the huge visual effect on cinderstorm and think that it pulls mobs all the way. The real missile that actually does damage is way shorter in length than the one thats visible

[Deleted]

Or the fact that EVERY SINGLE mm hunter ive seen so far in eye of azhara pulls every possible snail/seagul/blobb on the whole continent.

[Hellspawn]

MM with sidewinders and/or barrage just works very poorly with a lot of neutral mobs around. In some cases its just impossible to not pull extra mobs. Other situations are manageable with enough distance or positioning.
You can play Eye of Azshara without pulling, but the extra cautiousness will cost you some of your dps for sure (but not on the bosses).

BM may be more boring but at least you don't get in these situation and you are extremely mobile.

[Deleted]

He could have asked you for your opinion on lasagna. If he didn't like the answer he was in his full right to kick you. And no, he was not a douchebag for doing so. Why you might ask? Well, sit down Timmy and let me explain. It was his group. You don't have any kind of right to be in it. End of story.

If the "I got kicked from X because of X" and "I won't get invited because of X" people started their own groups, allowing everyone and anyone in, the "problem" would be solved.

What baffles my mind is that it literally takes more effort/time to come to these forums and write a post/thread about it than it takes to actually start a group.

Yes, it is his group so he has his criteria, no problem with that, that's obvious and there is no need to mention it as I said it clear in my previous post (don't know if you read it).

My question is: Is he right? Is playing BM a requirement for mythic+? I don't know, that's why i asked here, it seems that you are butthurt, I don't know why.

I am making an effort in order to ask more experienced hunters if the difference between MM and BM is so huge that is worth changing everything for mythic+ because I want to make the best decisions for my performance.

In some situations, quite alot But overall, not very much You should on average see BM hunters be both worse and better then you in dps overall If you look at high % of optimization, then you will see the difference, but very few people go up there. On normal single target fights, most classes are not insanely far apart in dps

This is the answer I was looking for, a constructive answer that solve my doubt. Thank you, hopefully other users in this thread learn from you.

I won't condone that kind of behavior, and I'm a big proponent of playing the spec you prefer for pretty much any content (as long as it's competitive), but I'll have to admit Marks Hunters are not the first place I'd look for Ranged DPS in M+. That's not a commentary on the performance of the spec, Hunters in general, or the people playing Hunters, it's a commentary on how problematic their abilities can be, and how little discipline a lot of Hunters seem to have in the use of said abilities.

Between Sidewinders and Barrage, the potential for unwanted adds, particularly in heavily congested and/or tight quarters like the table room in Halls of Valor is way too high. Other classes have similar issues with "wandering" dots, like Fire Mages and Unholy DKs, but those two generally only become an issue if a mob bounces too close to other mobs, and rarely do they have the potential of mass pulling. You can probably recover from a single extra pack. An entire room and your run might be fubar.

I certainly wouldn't deny a Marks Hunter if I knew the player to be solid, but I think you'd have to make certain to be mindful of their potential to be accidentally problematic, and probably gameplan around it in some situations. It's unfortunate that for such a quintessential class Blizzard can't get the design on Hunter abilities just right.

MM with sidewinders and/or barrage just works very poorly with a lot of neutral mobs around. In some cases its just impossible to not pull extra mobs. Other situations are manageable with enough distance or positioning.
You can play Eye of Azshara without pulling, but the extra cautiousness will cost you some of your dps for sure (but not on the bosses).

BM may be more boring but at least you don't get in these situation and you are extremely mobile.

Thank you, I understand that pulling adds due to marksmanship mechanics is a downside. I agree with you.