Political Violence on the rise in Germany

[Ravenblade]

Where did you get this number? 100 million dead... That's more than the total casualties (civilian and military) during WW2.
And if you're talking about China you have to consider the total population of that country and calling China a communist system is a euphemism. It's just another authoritarian dictatorship (and probably one of the most capitalist countries). Maybe you should read some Marx before spreading bullsh*t like this.

He liberally decided to reduce the number of casualties to the number of Jews who died in WW2 only and then went on to summarize all the estimated deaths during all communist regimes - even though they didn't all follow Marx' idea through and often relied on derived ideas consequently being altered, re-designed or created to fit the particular nations' cultural background - and put them against eachother. He forgets that exact numbers alone can be estimates and especially when it comes to human victims don't really qualify as severity scales. The reasons and circumstances have to be regarded as well which is why 67-80 million estimated deaths during WW2 will ultimately always weigh heavier than whatever higher numbers were produced during the times of various communist regimes. If the Nazi ideology had spread further, if they had won against all odds, then the number would have swelled to probably ten times then that. The relatively timely end of the Nazi reign was the reason why the numbers of victims of their ideologies couldn't rise further. Although you could argue that if lumping all communist and neo-communist regimes together is fair then lumping all fascist regimes would be too. Which of course does not work but those solely looking at numbers could get satisfied by it.

[Nerovar]

He liberally decided to reduce the number of casualties to the number of Jews who died in WW2 only and then went on to summarize all the estimated deaths during all communist regimes - even though they didn't all follow Marx' idea through and often relied on derived ideas consequently being altered, re-designed or created to fit the particular nations' cultural background - and put them against eachother. He forgets that exact numbers alone can be estimates and especially when it comes to human victims don't really qualify as severity scales. The reasons and circumstances have to be regarded as well which is why 67-80 million estimated deaths during WW2 will ultimately always weigh heavier than whatever higher numbers were produced during the times of various communist regimes. If the Nazi ideology had spread further, if they had won against all odds, then the number would have swelled to probably ten times then that. The relatively timely end of the Nazi reign was the reason why the numbers of victims of their ideologies couldn't rise further. Although you could argue that if lumping all communist and neo-communist regimes together is fair then lumping all fascist regimes would be too. Which of course does not work but those solely looking at numbers could get satisfied by it.

A voice of reason. Thank you. Sometimes I need a reminder that not everyone on the internet is full of sh*t.

[Pannonian]

I did notice the change. I was there this year. 3 countries in central Europe including Germany. The city I visited didn't seem to have many minorities so maybe other places had more tension.
Plus just recently there was a thread about Chancellor Merkel and almost all on here agreed she would win.

Actually, most of the time its the other way round. There are a lot of studies. Generally speaking: less immigrants lead to greater fear of immigrants; on the other hand: many of the places with a lot of immigrants have far less troubles.

A prime example would be the east of germany, where not even 5% of the population is non-german, and there are even less muslims. Still this is the breeding ground for the right wing in germany.

Another example: I live in Vienna, next to a camp for refugees, not only is the district i live mostly voting green (last election was just this year, and they won... again), but the right wing parties are also struggling to get a footing here. On the contrary: the right-wingers are strongest on the countryside, while the cities, where most of the immigrants/foreigners live are firmly in the hand of the left.

[Deleted]

The OP bolded the most relevant parts of the article. Nothing wrong with that is there?

"Relevant parts", as in a pathetic attempt to make it seem like political violence was on right-wing only when it's a wider problem because surprise surprise there are violent idiots on both sides. You lose all credibility when you try to paint one party in a bad light when in the very same article it is said it happens to both of them. You're just a biased shitposter who doesn't even try at that point, and take discussion away from actual topics people should be discussing relating to this phenomenon, i.e the reasons why political violence in general is at rise, what it tells us and how could we prevent it

But no, let's make this right vs. left shitflinging contest

[Ravenblade]

Actually, most of the time its the other way round. There are a lot of studies. Generally speaking: less immigrants lead to greater fear of immigrants; on the other hand: many of the places with a lot of immigrants have far less troubles.

A prime example would be the east of germany, where not even 5% of the population is non-german, and there are even less muslims. Still this is the breeding ground for the right wing in germany.

Another example: I live in Vienna, next to a camp for refugees, not only is the district i live mostly voting green (last election was just this year, and they won... again), but the right wing parties are also struggling to get a footing here. On the contrary: the right-wingers are strongest on the countryside, while the cities, where most of the immigrants/foreigners live are firmly in the hand of the left.

The muslims and then refugees are filling the placeholder spot for asylum seekers which were filling a placeholder spot reserved for foreigners.

Having grown up in the East and seen its rise from the very beginning I can tell which groups filled that spot so far:
Vietnamese, Mozambicans, Angolans, Ethiopians, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Romanians, various groups from the Balkans, Sinti & Roma, Lebanese, Turks

All of these groups have been declared a genocidal threat to Germans by various rightwing militants and softened to fit political agendas by various political rightwing parties (Die Republikaner, DVU and NPD). Now the spot happens to be filled by other groups and of course muslims , once that threat is diminished they may fall back to previously engaged groups or they will find new ones.

[Pannonian]

The muslims and then refugees are filling the placeholder spot for asylum seekers which were filling a placeholder spot reserved for foreigners.

Having grown up in the East and seen its rise from the very beginning I can tell which groups filled that spot so far:
Vietnamese, Mozambicans, Angolans, Ethiopians, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Romanians, various groups from the Balkans, Sinti & Roma, Lebanese, Turks

All of these groups have been declared a genocidal threat to Germans by various rightwing militants and softened to fit political agendas by various political rightwing parties (Die Republikaner, DVU and NPD). Now the spot happens to be filled by other groups and of course muslims , once that threat is diminished they may fall back to previously engaged groups or they will find new ones.

I think thats just human... sadly... as soon as you have a group of people that define themselves over common traits/attributes, they will always shun people that are "foreign" to their group. Of course this depends on the group and their values (a nationalist society would be more prone to this behaviour). But bottom line is, that people who are different will always be seen as kind of a threat - simply because we fear the unknown, thats human, thats survival.

BUT!

Personally i think on of the most important jobs of the government is, to protect this minorities. I learned in school that democracy is as much the rule of the majority as it is the protection of the minority. The majority is not allowed to take rights from the minorities. Thats really important for our democracies. And thats the job of the government - countering the bias of the majority.

The only thing i really fear is not terror or something else, but politics becoming more and more populistic, and therefore abandoning their special responsibilities regarding minorities.

[Ravenblade]

I think thats just human... sadly... as soon as you have a group of people that define themselves over common traits/attributes, they will always shun people that are "foreign" to their group. Of course this depends on the group and their values (a nationalist society would be more prone to this behaviour). But bottom line is, that people who are different will always be seen as kind of a threat - simply because we fear the unknown, thats human, thats survival.

BUT!

Personally i think on of the most important jobs of the government is, to protect this minorities. I learned in school that democracy is as much the rule of the majority as it is the protection of the minority. The majority is not allowed to take rights from the minorities. Thats really important for our democracies. And thats the job of the government - countering the bias of the majority.

The only thing i really fear is not terror or something else, but politics becoming more and more populistic, and therefore abandoning their special responsibilities regarding minorities.

Yes, that's why most populists shouting democratic principles actually espouse purely republican principles which would have the majority trample on minorities when they see fit. Democracies basing their rule on constitutions usually have mechanics in place which will prevent a rule by mob from happening. Populism is all fine but it can't really work as implemented politics without eroding democratic principles including civil rights in the long run.

[Tennis]

"Relevant parts", as in a pathetic attempt to make it seem like political violence was on right-wing only when it's a wider problem because surprise surprise there are violent idiots on both sides. You lose all credibility when you try to paint one party in a bad light when in the very same article it is said it happens to both of them. You're just a biased shitposter who doesn't even try at that point, and take discussion away from actual topics people should be discussing relating to this phenomenon, i.e the reasons why political violence in general is at rise, what it tells us and how could we prevent it

But no, let's make this right vs. left shitflinging contest

How about instead of flaming you actually take a shot at responding to the article in the OP?
What can be done to combat right wing violence in Germany?

[Malacrass]

What can be done to combat right wing violence in Germany?

Create jobs, create (stable) wealth.

Yes, in the EU Germany plays the role of the fat rich kid that no one wants to play with - unless it brings its toys. But that doesn't mean everyone here is living the life, especially in east Germany. And the gap between west and east logically creates frustration, and frustrated people are easy prey for left and right wing rhetorics (which incite violence, even if they don't specifically call for it - let's not kid ourselves here)

East and West Germany need to be on the same level on all fronts, then and only then can arguments reach the people many consider a lost cause.

And yes, I would go so far and claim that a TRULY unified EU can only happen if the wealth gap between the member countries decreases heavily. Not sure if we will get there during my lifetime, though.

[tj119]

Here's an idea, stop letting in 3rd world people who have nothing to contribute to society into your countries. Presto! No more violence.

[Incredibale]

If you're going to react with violence because of "nagging", then you are the "dangerous population".

The majority of German natives do not adhere to a blankety-blank that teaches societal subterfuge. The vast majority of refugees coming in do.

Unlike the multi-culti obsessives, some of us have not been mentally castrated despite decades of propaganda and take issue with that.

Just how far do you expect people to go to accommodate foreigners who wouldn't do the same for them?

To see how fringe and nutty the anti-nativists are, check out this UNESCO video, telling us how great the hijab is and German women should be wearing them.

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What can be done to combat right wing violence in Germany?

Put Germans first.

Stop acting like Scooby Doo villains with your over-the-top anti-native bullshit.

Stop fucking LYING by denying that these people avoid integration then scheme against and disrupt the society that took them in. STOP LYING. STOP. LYING.

This goes for you, people like you, and mainstream media.

[Miyagie]

The majority of German natives do not adhere to a blankety-blank that teaches societal subterfuge. The vast majority of refugees coming in do.

Unlike the multi-culti obsessives, some of us have not been mentally castrated despite decades of propaganda and take issue with that.

Just how far do you expect people to go to accommodate foreigners who wouldn't do the same for them?

To see how fringe and nutty the anti-nativists are, check out this UNESCO video, telling us how great the hijab is and German women should be wearing them.

Nice shitposting, thats no even a hijab or a scarf...

[Deleted]

That's not true, there is more left-wing violence.

But most left-wing physical violence is against neo-Nazi's, so that's a good thing.
Whereas right-wing violence is mostly aimed at innocent people for religious/ethnic reasons.

I see, a bit of political violence is fine as long as it's against the far right?

Fucking anti-democratic extremist scum.

Infracted - Flaming

[Choda]

I see, a bit of political violence is fine as long as it's against the far right?

Fucking anti-democratic extremist scum.

Hey, you're expecting self-awareness and consistency from lefties. I'm afraid I have some bad news...

[Ravenblade]

What can be done to combat right wing violence in Germany?

The first thing which can be done is not exaggerating it. Going by some views expressed one could get the impression that it's a warzone here.

The second thing is not trying to not just fight the symptoms.

Create jobs, create (stable) wealth.

Yes, in the EU Germany plays the role of the fat rich kid that no one wants to play with - unless it brings its toys. But that doesn't mean everyone here is living the life, especially in east Germany. And the gap between west and east logically creates frustration, and frustrated people are easy prey for left and right wing rhetorics (which incite violence, even if they don't specifically call for it - let's not kid ourselves here)

East and West Germany need to be on the same level on all fronts, then and only then can arguments reach the people many consider a lost cause.

And yes, I would go so far and claim that a TRULY unified EU can only happen if the wealth gap between the member countries decreases heavily. Not sure if we will get there during my lifetime, though.

In a lot parts the East is in far better shape than the West going by infrastructure, housing conditions etc. nowadays and people are also finally emigrating eastward again however economically it can't even come close to the West. It has a lot to do, and this may sound ironic, with the chronic lack of integration policies which Germany had in the past: there were 17 million new German nationals waiting to be integrated. It never happened. It was integration-by-served-meals. Not everyone liked the taste.
Historically the GDR never really combated rightwing extremism instead declared it as non-existent phenomenon treating it like any other dissident group. This is why a lot people were easy prey for West German rightwing politicians during the reunification. They were the first ones to come over and to proselytize hard. When there were state elections it was usually the successor of the GDR ruling party which got most of the votes or ended up as equally strong opposition.

The formerly leftwing dominated zones are slowly swinging right because after decades they feel largely ignored by government and industry. In fact, have a look at German maps you can find on the internet, you'll find that most of them have at maximum three Eastern cities, like a fraction of what's displayed on West side. Being everyone's no-man's land meant that people were left to develop their own understanding of an unified Germany, which then further contributed to the no-man's land status. It's a perpetual cycle and only now the government is concerned about the results.

[Yriel]

Arguably WW2 was the most devastating conflict to date and it was all started by a guy who had the idea that the German race needs more to dominate and people who agreed with it. Nazi ideology could have fizzled, Hitler could have been killed during the Beerhall putsch and communism as a mass phenomenon would have never existed after since it would have remained largely contained to the Sovietunion.

People using these numbers and looking at them in an isolated manner don't consider that these do not exist just because some ideology became flesh and decided to eradicate X people. It's someone having a terrible idea, some more people following it and establishing a military order around it with the goal to enforce it to as many people and regions altogether.

I doubt the Japanese fought for "the german race", neither did the sowjets when taking half of Poland. If you count all deaths in WW2 then please include all the different reasons nations fought back then.

[Shaktard]

Huffington post. Could you've linked to a worse left wing cumrag?

Anything that is "anti refugees" or pro Germany immediately gets the Nazi stamp attached to it. Like the protests in Bautzen. Those people weren't radical right wing extremists. They were regular Bautzner locals who are rightfully concerned about the shit that's going on... like the "refugee" who raped a little boy and got off with a slap on the wrists because "prison would be harmful to him" and because he doesn't speak german.

Nevermind the fact that in 99% of all incidents, it's those radical left wing retards that instigate the violence.

[Ravenblade]

I doubt the Japanese fought for "the german race", neither did the sowjets when taking half of Poland. If you count all deaths in WW2 then please include all the different reasons nations fought back then.

As I have tried to explain in another posting: The numbers are irrelevant without context and don't quite stand for severity. WW2 was by total count the most devastating conflict not just by numbers but by clashing ideologies. The Soviets could afford taking on Poland because Nazi Germany attacked from the rear. The Japanese counted on Nazi Germany as their ally, indeed it was Nazi Germany declaring war on the US which finally turned it into a world war.

The Nazis had their own ranking of people, the Japanese might not have fought for "the German race" but in Hitler's eyes they fought for "the Aryan's cause" and thus were exempt from most of the measures devised except interbreeding of course, they were ultimately deemed as race fit for serve, the Soviets were never seen as equals, ultimately they were just seen as tool which after their goal was fulfilled would have ended like all the other enemies of Nazi Germany. Now imagine the Nazis never came to power, I doubt the Sovietunion would have even dared to take on Poland at that time, the Japanese most likely would have had to deal solely with the US and its allies. It's likely that their war crimes and ideology would have stood out after their lost. They do as well today but it gets overshadowed by the countless Nazi crimes.

[Forogil]

Allow me to correct you:
Violence against violent extremism is fine.
We have a war on terror, because public's direct safety is at risk.

Still missing a major point: government violence against violent extremism is fine.

Thus the fascist of anti-fa are wrong to use violence against "far-right" extremists - even if they have also used violence (meaning actual violence - not just the new-speak of calling everything you don't agree with "racism" and saying that "racism is violence"); similarly the "far-right" extremists are wrong to attack anti-fa.

However, the government monopoly on violence relies on the government actually doing its job.

[CMartel]

"left wing violence" is mostly damage to property, whereas right-wing violence is mostly battery/assault, arson, or even homicde so they can't really be compared or set in relation to each other. And yes, right wing violence becomes an increasing problem.

I guess those were Rebupicans trashing cop cars & trying to throw a white reporter into a fire in Charlotte, only to have the cops body cam show the dead felon had both a gun and was wearing an ankle holster.

All those republicans in Chicago and NYC

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Gonna comment on the right wing violence there son. How about all those who have suffered due to it?

Given how Facebook has agreed to remove videos of moslems behaving badly from German users, and Anette Kahane ,a jewish former Stasi member , has the full time job of going after people who post video of immigrant crime how can we know who is doing the suffering? The 5 richest moslem nations have taken in ZERO refugees because they know having muslims of a different type in their homeland will lead to problems