Would you kick a DPS if they only attacked for 20% of a dungeon?

[Siq1ne]

Worry about yourself.

I wish more people would follow this idea. If somebody is crap in your dungeon then don't befriend them and never play with them again. I bet OP's game play suffered because he was entirely too worried about what the healer is (or isn't) doing.

[Flurryfang]

Can you please understand that you are with 4 other people in that dungeon? if you are going there with mentality "I have all the time in world" and wank in corner, you could just afk in garrison aswell. You are worth exacly the small piece of a shit you are. Id definetly kick you from group.
As healer you can push about the same dps on bosses as tanks do, and on some cases on aoe aswell. While still keeping your group alive.

Yes i understand, that i am with 4 other people, but i also understand that these people want to stay alive and that they want to have a fulling dungeon encounter. If i use time on dps, which i could use on pre healing / pre shielding, then i am not helping anybody. You say, that any healer could easily get good dps without any real hard work, but i just say that, that is from your point of view. Some people have a hard time healing in heroics and mythics. I am glad, that you can find the time and excess to deal dmg during encounters without getting a brain tumor, but i will not take that chance. If i see a time to relax and increase my teams safety, i will take the time and relax.

Also, if you ever kicked a healer because he was healing too good and he then refused to do dps instead, then i feel sorry for you and the people in the groups which you make. Why punish a healer for doing good healing?? Its wierd, that you would rather gamble on getting a good healer, which also does dps, then just being alright with a healer, which is good enough to do his job and still be relaxed in his gameplay.

[unbound]

Why is it acceptable for a healer to only heal 20% of a dungeon and afk the rest?

With healer damage buffs for Legion I hope the playerbase picks up a lot more quickly, than it has been, that healers should be doing more than twiddling their thumbs.

If the dungeons are already so easy that the healer doesn't need to be too involved, this already sounds like WoD one month in. And, yes, I've seen DPS do less than 20% of a dungeon in WoD (frequent afk) and not get kicked because it wasn't really noticed.

This is at least the 4th thread in the past week that has been deja vu with WoD. Is Legion really an improvement?

[Christan]

No. I think if the healing is that easy with your healer/tank gear then someone should tell the tank to pull more packs.

We've got a winner, if people are following enough mechanics to not need heals, more should be pulled, and many healers do dps on bosses, but even with damage buffs its laughable.

I bet you the increased aoe dps would far far outweigh the healer dpsing on a small non-damaging pack.

But as soon as the idiot dps are tunnel visioning, throw in an extra pack or few, no amount of flashes n surges can help if multiple packs are pulled, so its a catch22, is the group good enough or not?

Well depending on the dungeon

[Tradu]

If a role requires you to spend the majority of your time performing another role then there is something deeply flawed with that role.

No, that just means you and your group are overgearing the content(or pulling too little at a time), making that role mostly obsolete. Having to weave in parts of other roles(during downtime or otherwise) is perfectly fine

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Yes i understand, that i am with 4 other people, but i also understand that these people want to stay alive and that they want to have a fulling dungeon encounter. If i use time on dps, which i could use on pre healing / pre shielding, then i am not helping anybody. You say, that any healer could easily get good dps without any real hard work, but i just say that, that is from your point of view. Some people have a hard time healing in heroics and mythics. I am glad, that you can find the time and excess to deal dmg during encounters without getting a brain tumor, but i will not take that chance. If i see a time to relax and increase my teams safety, i will take the time and relax.

Also, if you ever kicked a healer because he was healing too good and he then refused to do dps instead, then i feel sorry for you and the people in the groups which you make. Why punish a healer for doing good healing?? Its wierd, that you would rather gamble on getting a good healer, which also does dps, then just being alright with a healer, which is good enough to do his job and still be relaxed in his gameplay.

You can't increase a group's safety beyond "topped"(or "not in danger of dying"), at that point you either go afk or contribute some damage(regardless of how much, every little bit helps). The correct choice there is to contribute damage. Obviously if you're struggling with healing in the first place, you won't have that downtime in the first place.

[Rotted]

If the healer isnt letting anyone die, or just one or two, then no I wouldn't

If a dps did 20% of the overall damage but was there for each fight no I wouldn't, instead I do this thing called helping. I take the time to message them and politely ask them if they'd like a hand, such as pointing out not to use aoe on a single target or directing them to icy veins or mmo etc.

However, if a dps is there for only 20% of the dungeon itself, then yes I'd kick them if there wasnt a good reason.

Tbh we should do the same to the healer, but if hes keeping up with the group and no one dies, what can you say really.

[Deleted]

Yes i understand, that i am with 4 other people, but i also understand that these people want to stay alive and that they want to have a fulling dungeon encounter. If i use time on dps, which i could use on pre healing / pre shielding, then i am not helping anybody. You say, that any healer could easily get good dps without any real hard work, but i just say that, that is from your point of view. Some people have a hard time healing in heroics and mythics. I am glad, that you can find the time and excess to deal dmg during encounters without getting a brain tumor, but i will not take that chance. If i see a time to relax and increase my teams safety, i will take the time and relax.

Also, if you ever kicked a healer because he was healing too good and he then refused to do dps instead, then i feel sorry for you and the people in the groups which you make. Why punish a healer for doing good healing?? Its wierd, that you would rather gamble on getting a good healer, which also does dps, then just being alright with a healer, which is good enough to do his job and still be relaxed in his gameplay.

I understand it completely if there is a low geared/bad healer who cant afford it. I dont understand it if you just plain afk/spam heal on tank to waste time.

And there really isn't such a thing as doing too good healing. You either keep your group alive or not. If you are good healer, your team can push more weight on you, or you can spend your free time on doing something useful.

[Queen of Hamsters]

... Are people dying? No? Then the healer is probably doing the work that needs to be done rather than throwing heals to pad meters.

[Deleted]

Why is it acceptable for a healer to only heal 20% of a dungeon and afk the rest?

Your argument is falacious... It's not true.

It's noone's job/task/role to have 100% uptime in the dungeon.

It's the tank's job to tank when there are things to be tanked.
If there are no things to tank I'm ok with the tank going on a bio break...

It's the dps' job to dps when there are things to dps.
If there are no things to dps, I'm ok with the dps playing bejeweled...

It's the healer's job to heal when there are people to heal.
If there are no people to heal, I'm ok with the healer spending his GCD unenchanting drops or crafting...

This being said, it is ofcourse preferable that everyone do as much as they can to end the dungeon faster... but I won't expect or ask anyone to do things that are not part of their role. I won't kick a dps or tank because he didnt throw a couple of heals during down time / ate during breaks. That would be retarded.

[Simulacrum]

Your argument is falacious... It's not true.

It's noone's job/task/role to have 100% uptime in the dungeon.

It's the tank's job to tank when there are things to be tanked.
If there are no things to tank I'm ok with the tank going on a bio break...

It's the dps' job to dps when there are things to dps.
If there are no things to dps, I'm ok with the dps playing bejeweled...

It's the healer's job to heal when there are people to heal.
If there are no people to heal, I'm ok with the healer spending his GCD unenchanting drops or crafting...

This being said, it is ofcourse preferable that everyone do as much as they can to end the dungeon faster... but I won't expect or ask anyone to do things that are not part of their role. I won't kick a dps or tank because he didnt throw a couple of heals during down time / ate during breaks. That would be retarded.

so presumably this means that you'd be fine with a tank that did nothing but taunt mobs then stand there and get hit by thme while doing 0 damage

uh, which I guess... is fine. all power to you man. sounds horrible to me, though. definitely wouldn't want to be anywhere near your ideal groups.

[Maletalana]

Your point makes 0 sense in the terms of the OP considering most tanks are doing way too much damage at the moment(tank is doing 2 jobs then unlike he's saying the healers are barely doing 1 job).

That's the point. His argument is suggesting that, tracking dmg TAKEN, the tanks dmg taken would be low to things dieing to fast. TO suggest that mobs be left alive so that the tank can register more dmg taken solely for the purpose of "tanks should have high dmg taken". Such a notion is absurd and ridiculous, similar to OP's argument that healers should have more dmg done for some reason.

The fights are designed to last a certain amount of time. Tank and heals just keep dps alive to do their job. If the mobs go down *on time* then the group is *ideal*. If its taking too long, its not "heals do more deeps", the problem is that the dps is behind on what they should be doing. Lets say you have a dedicated group of 5: if you are sliiightly behind on time, aka dps, then a good healer can throw a few smites around to make up for it. That is a dynamic healer knowing how to help the group be ideal. Just because a healer does not do this doesn't make him bad, it makes him standard.

[Deleted]

so presumably this means that you'd be fine with a tank that did nothing but taunt mobs then stand there and get hit by thme while doing 0 damage

That is exactly what I mean. Unless you know... taunt has a somewhat long cooldown and a tank can't really tank just with taunt. They have to generate threat by hitting the things.

But hey... if they had a "make me so sexy that the mobs only see me" button and all they had to do was "stand there and get hit" I would be totally fine with it.

[Wyrt]

you really don't get it do you?

What's there to get? If a role is largely useless then there's something wrong with it.

[Deleted]

If healing isn't needed, Healer should go dps spec and do something.

"Hey, this is pretty easy! We can do this without the healer - let him sleep in the corner!"
The entitlement these days is absurd.

If healing isn't needed, then there is something broken in the game, but ofc u as a player should always contribute to the group as much as possible.

[Nakotsu]

Yes I would. I dont like caring afker's.

[Maletalana]

so presumably this means that you'd be fine with a tank that did nothing but taunt mobs then stand there and get hit by thme while doing 0 damage

uh, which I guess... is fine. all power to you man. sounds horrible to me, though. definitely wouldn't want to be anywhere near your ideal groups.

that ridiculous. no. [referring to my comment above:] I have said that there is an *ideal* time to complete an encounter, aka a dps check.. Although I have said its the dps job, I will modify that statement here to include that tanks are *ideally* supposed to provide a fourth dps, albeit one that is much (?) smaller than the actual dps.

[darkphiba]

Holy Paladin signing in.

Personally, i love getting in the mix, and am more likley to be found at the front lines swinging my hammer into the face of whatever looks at me the wrong way, with my random tank buddy near, this helps, with my mastery ofc, but on the whole it plays into my preferred playstyle. the thing to bear in mind, different strokes for different folks. Our long time Discipline priest (going on like 6 years at this point) switched to holy overnight, because she doesnt like to DPS, doesnt even have a dps character and doesnt play shadow, i dont expect her to do damage in a dungeon or raid, but i know she is fully capable of managing her "oficial" role and the mechanics required, which is far less of a drag, then a healer doing as much damage as possible, but missing all the mechanics and doing more bad than good.

personally i'll have decided by the first boss if i have a good group that will avoid the avoidable, or if im with those people that just stepped off the short bus, and love to stand in everything they can. i never come across a group that required zero healing, i have come across groups that required minimial, after all, no one is perfect.

if the run is progressing, i dont really care, i care more if i have a guildy that isnt pulling his weight, then i'll need to have a 1-1 with them, and see if theres something their missing. most of you talking about min-maxing healer and tank dps, are holding everyone else to your own standards and morals, something which cannot be realised in a game setting.

[Simulacrum]

That is exactly what I mean. Unless you know... taunt has a somewhat long cooldown and a tank can't really tank just with taunt. They have to generate threat by hitting the things.

But hey... if they had a "make me so sexy that the mobs only see me" button and all they had to do was "stand there and get hit" I would be totally fine with it.

I think I have that, actually. I push my aoe once and then they don't run away.

that ridiculous. no. [referring to my comment above:] I have said that there is an *ideal* time to complete an encounter, aka a dps check.. Although I have said its the dps job, I will modify that statement here to include that tanks are *ideally* supposed to provide a fourth dps, albeit one that is much (?) smaller than the actual dps.

it's a reductio ad absurdum... it's supposed to be ridiculous. and I don't care what you have said; I wasn't responding to you. if I was responding to you, it would mostly just be to laugh, since the things you write are so wrapped up in stupid, false memes that I'd have to knock them all down to get through to the core of your argument and I just can't be bothered to wade through that quagmire of idiocy right now

[l33t]

Why is it acceptable for a healer to only heal 20% of a dungeon and afk the rest?

With healer damage buffs for Legion I hope the playerbase picks up a lot more quickly, than it has been, that healers should be doing more than twiddling their thumbs.

Wrong (and stupid) attitude.

Damage dealer's job is to deal damage. If he does only 20% of his job, he deserves to be kicked.

Healer's job is to keep the group alive. If everyone are alive, he's doing 100% of his job, and nobody (except for mythic+ pushers, whose healers really know what to do without your weird attitude, OP) care about how much time a healer afk'd if the group was alive 100% of time.

[purebalance]

and he does that damage because he does a special rotation that does more damage? No they just do their tanking rotation and it does more damage than they did before which will be nerfed soon.

I play as a dps and healer (and I don't dps at all in my healer even tho I would like to do that a little but i am not used to do the healing and dps) and I would kick any dps that slack, while the healer will only be kicked if he cant do his healing job in the normal circumstance. (Yet healers try their best to keep "idiot" people alive because I doubt they would enjoy seeing someone in their party die (in few circumstance they would!)

Not really. If he's playing the way you're suggesting is ok for a healer to play he would not. Most tanks do things that have nothing to do with threat or tanking. Technically by you and everyone else's account once a tank has threat all they need to do is enough to barely hold threat and stay alive.

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Wrong (and stupid) attitude.

Damage dealer's job is to deal damage. If he does only 20% of his job, he deserves to be kicked.

Healer's job is to keep the group alive. If everyone are alive, he's doing 100% of his job, and nobody (except for mythic+ pushers, whose healers really know what to do without your weird attitude, OP) care about how much time a healer afk'd if the group was alive 100% of time.

So also by that account a dps can stand in shit since it's the healer's job to keep them alive.