Overwatch - MOBAnoob friendly?

[ati87]

What are you on about?

OW takes one principle from MOBAs: abilities, and that's it. Absolutely NOTHING else that makes the MOBA genre is in OW, from player perspective, to aiming, to movement, to objective, to character builds, items, levels, towers, minions, last hitting, denying, loss of gold on death, gain of XP on kill..... Jungling, a map, wards. Hell it's not even 5v5, nor are the maps generally symmetrical.

But you know, if you want to call OW a MOBA based on one element go for it.

At least your agreeing with me that it takes elements of a MOBA, because I never said it was a full MOBA like Hero's of the Storm

Also your using a very narrow definition of what a game should. Seriously your using the argument that you in a MOBA you don't need to aim and when you die you lose gold, what happens if you play PARAGON where you do need to aim or if you don't lose any resources what happens to that genre.

[Zelendria]

I never disagreed with you that it has taken a mechanic from a MOBA. I started disagreeing with you when you said this

If you put lets say Hero's of the Storm in first person you would get largely the same type of game, biggest difference is maybe between the two games is the single objective instead of multiply objectives.

Which is 100% false. I then go on to explain about a dozen or more mechanics that exist in MOBAs that don't in OW. These are baseline mechanics that makes a MOBA what it is.
If you look at the core mechanics in HoTS, more of them feature in any RPG, than they do in OW... But no one would draw a conclusion that Skyrim is a MOBA

[Raetary]

Overwatch is a mix between MOBA and first person shooter

except its not, overwatch is far from a moba.
the only thing it has in common with a moba are the abilities of the characters.

if you want to see an actual mix between moba and fps check battleborn or paragon.

[Endus]

Overwatch isn't a MOBA. The core elements to a MOBA don't remotely exist in Overwatch. The game types are straight-up shooter concepts. The mechanics are all FPS mechanics. The heroes are pretty comparable to "classes" in other team shooters, there's just way more of them to make up for the customization within the classes those other shooters often have. Overwatch is in the same genre as things like Team Fortress 2 and Planetside and Battlefield, not games like League of Legends or DOTA.

[Jester Joe]

If you put lets say Hero's of the Storm in first person you would get largely the same type of game, biggest difference is maybe between the two games is the single objective instead of multiply objectives.

Not at all.

Compare Smite (An actual MOBA in a 3D setting rather than a bird's eye view) and Overwatch. They're nothing alike.

What are you on about?

OW takes one principle from MOBAs: abilities, and that's it. Absolutely NOTHING else that makes the MOBA genre is in OW, from player perspective, to aiming, to movement, to objective, to character builds, items, levels, towers, minions, last hitting, denying, loss of gold on death, gain of XP on kill..... Jungling, a map, wards. Hell it's not even 5v5, nor are the maps generally symmetrical.

But you know, if you want to call OW a MOBA based on one element go for it.

Abilities are hardly a "MOBA" exclusive though.

[Endus]

Abilities are hardly a "MOBA" exclusive though.

I mean, if "there are characters with set moves and abilities" mean a game is a MOBA, then all 2d fighting games like Street Fighter or Tekken are now "MOBAs". Platformers with multiple characters or character swaps, like Trine, are "MOBAs". Some RPGs, including all D&D based ones, are "MOBAs".

It's just not a defensible argument.

[Zelendria]

Abilities are hardly a "MOBA" exclusive though.

Never claimed they were. Just pointing out the only comparison OW actually has to a MOBA, yet somehow the game has been labelled as such by some people.

[Seramore]

If you put lets say Hero's of the Storm in first person you would get largely the same type of game, biggest difference is maybe between the two games is the single objective instead of multiply objectives.

Talking about utli's as a reason why it's different is kind of weak, thats like calling Battle Royal and Hunger Games different because the different gender of the main characters.

Overwatch and battleborn both took a large inspiration of MOBA"s in terms of core gameplay, pushing for a single objective instead of pushing for kills

If you put HOTS in a first person perspective, you'd be getting a First Person MOBA.

Have you ever played TF2? Or any other FPS game that pushes for objectives rather than kills? Just because a game has objectives that you push for instead of a K ratio doesn't make it a MOBA. Just because the game has abilities and an ultimate (which I can almost guarantee is why people associate it with MOBAs in the first place) doesn't make it a MOBA. The game is purely an FPS with more strategy involved rather than just killing people.

[Jester Joe]

Never claimed they were. Just pointing out the only comparison OW actually has to a MOBA, yet somehow the game has been labelled as such by some people.

I know, I was building up on your assertion that Overwatch isn't a MOBA in any way.


I should of said "anyway" instead of "though".

[Zelendria]

Ah, misunderstood you then

[Luko]

The core of the game is a mix between MOBA and shooter.

Overwatch (and games like it) should be seen as a new genre in my opinion, the original MOBA was based mode in a RTS game (warcraft) and just like how that was a evolution on a genre so is moba shooters like overwatch.

They are. It was a "new" genre back in 2007 when people started to recognize Team Fortress 2's success and classified it as a "Hero Shooter." Overwatch is in that genre as well.

[Mormolyce]

There are precisely zero portable skills between Overwatch and MOBAs. Almost nothing in common.

It's a Team Fortress style game, period.

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The core of the game is a mix between MOBA and shooter.

Overwatch (and games like it) should be seen as a new genre in my opinion, the original MOBA was based mode in a RTS game (warcraft) and just like how that was a evolution on a genre so is moba shooters like overwatch.

Overwatch has no RTS heritage, it's an FPS through and through. Direct descendant of Team Fortress, which of course was originally a multiplayer mod of an FPS game.

Honestly I don't know what people mean when they say it has MOBA elements. What MOBA elements would you say Overwatch has?

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If you put lets say Hero's of the Storm in first person you would get largely the same type of game, biggest difference is maybe between the two games is the single objective instead of multiply objectives.

Talking about utli's as a reason why it's different is kind of weak, thats like calling Battle Royal and Hunger Games different because the different gender of the main characters.

Overwatch and battleborn both took a large inspiration of MOBA"s in terms of core gameplay, pushing for a single objective instead of pushing for kills

I can't comment much on Battleborn (which I think does have PVE objectives), but IMO if it doesn't have lanes and towers it's not a MOBA in any sense.

Original DOTA took the Warcraft 3 top down RTS engine, added lanes and towers and a central objective (note that it didn't add distinct hero types with different abilities, that was already a concept in Warcraft III, it just extrapolated it out). It was essentially a multiplayer mode with slightly different objectives, but it became popular and developed enough to be considered a genre unto itself.

Original Team Fortress took the Quake FPS engine and added different character classes with distinct strengths and weaknesses. Team Fortress 2 updated the engine to Half-Life/Source and refined the concepts. Overwatch took the Team Fortress model and made the classes even more distinct from one another. A further refinement really.

Two different game lineages with nothing in common IMO. Beyond the superficial concept of characters with distinct abilities.

P.S. Smite took the MOBA format and took away the top-down aspect. Though that's more of a third person perspective I think? But Smite has lanes and minions, IMO that's the key thing that makes it a MOBA.

[pmkaboo]

The core of the game is a mix between MOBA and shooter.

Overwatch (and games like it) should be seen as a new genre in my opinion, the original MOBA was based mode in a RTS game (warcraft) and just like how that was a evolution on a genre so is moba shooters like overwatch.

there isnt a single aspect of moba present in overwatch.

[Endus]

I can't comment much on Battleborn (which I think does have PVE objectives), but IMO if it doesn't have lanes and towers it's not a MOBA in any sense.

I could see getting around the existence of "lanes", if a MOBA went to a more open map system with better minion AI, but yeah, fundamentally, you pretty much need gates/towers or some equivalent thereof, and you need minions that are pushing towards the enemy, or it's not something I'd call a "MOBA". And Overwatch has neither. The only similarity is that heroes have abilities, but that's something true of SUCH a wide range of genres that it's silly to classify Overwatch as anything on that basis. I'd argue it's closer to 2d fighters like Street Fighter, in that mechanic, than it is to a MOBA, which generally has hero leveling and choices to be made and so forth (even HotS, albeit trimmed down from the norm).

[Unknown12345]

I wouldn't really consider Overwatch a MOBA. A MOBA to me is more like LoL/DOTA2.

That being said, OW is very noob friendly. Just pick a simple support like Mercy/Lucio, and the game will practically play itself for you.

You clearly haven't attempted to play those characters in medium to high level comp.

[Rykarr]

You clearly haven't attempted to play those characters in medium to high level comp.

OP asked about playing Overwatch as a beginner, and Lucio/Mercy are among the most noob-friendly characters in OW. In a competitive situation, their skill floors are low but their skill ceilings are obviously much, much higher, especially Lucio. Context is important.

[ati87]

Lets call everything MOBA that has arena and fighting in any kind of sense. Mortal Kombat is MOBA /rolleyes

Or we can just call it (as I did) inspired by?

I've played Paragon and they tried to translate that directly to 3D, but adding a tower or a NPC or two doesn't make it a genre by itself. It's the basic core game play that determines the genre of a game.

So you don't have a tower you try to take over, but you do have a payload

From wiki, the first sentence of the game play

There are two opposing teams whose goal collectively as a team is generally to destroy their enemy's base to win,

This kind of sounds like what you do in Overwatch, the very core of the game is about taking over the enemy's base. The future down the line you go (gameplay wise) the more Overwatch will be different from the standard MOBA's.

And really your using MK to mock me? And TBH this discussing sounds more like a group of people that got offended by the comparison more then anything else.

[Endus]

Or we can just call it (as I did) inspired by?

I've played Paragon and they tried to translate that directly to 3D, but adding a tower or a NPC or two doesn't make it a genre by itself. It's the basic core game play that determines the genre of a game.

So you don't have a tower you try to take over, but you do have a payload

From wiki, the first sentence of the game play


This kind of sounds like what you do in Overwatch, the very core of the game is about taking over the enemy's base. The future down the line you go (gameplay wise) the more Overwatch will be different from the standard MOBA's.

And really your using MK to mock me? And TBH this discussing sounds more like a group of people that got offended by the comparison more then anything else.

Your own example contradicts you; there's no base destruction in Overwatch. There aren't even bases, really. There's not one thing MOBA-related in Overwatch. It's a team shooter, using concepts that have been part of that genre since Team Fortress 2, and arguably before if you include other variations of escort missions. It's a shooter gameplay concept, not a moba concept.

It's not that anyone's offended by the comparison, it's that there's just no basis for it. Overwatch is the newest generation of team-based shooter, it isn't related to MOBAs in any way.

[Djriff]

MOBA by definition has towers (multiple) and bases/buildings to destroy.

Smite, Paragon, and Battleborn are FPS MOBA's, Overwatch is definitely not.

OT: You can pickup Overwatch at any skill level. If you suck at FPS there's always the 0 aim heros (Reinhardt comes to mind) and you'll still do just as well.