Arms Legion Discussion

[Merander]

Is there a point where i should focus more on Vers then mastery? Or should i stack even more Mastery right now.



Apparently im to dumb to post pictures here

http://imgur.com/a/EHbe3

[jrrq]

So i have the 840 WQ mastery, 840 egg and 850 horn trinkets. Which should i use?

[globezorz]

Thanks for the reply, so it is still about 25% better on single target (which is awesome, as all specs should have a niche in which they excel to make them viable).

Just to make sure I have the hang of the spec, it goes like this right?

Outside execute and BC
FR -> CS -> MS -> FR -> FR -> FR -> MS -> CS proc / Warbringer -> FR -> CS -> MS -> FR -> FR -> FR -> MS -> ...

Inside execute outside BC
CS -> if shattered defenses up then execute -> MS -> FR -> FR -> FR -> MS -> ... continue until CS proc for shattered defenses then repeat

Inside BC
FR + CS -> FR + MS -> FR -> FR -> FR -> FR + MS

Is that about right?

Not even close, there's too much to correct. Go reacquaint yourself with a guide and come back here for some fine tuning.

[Xanthan]

Yes of course
/cast Battle Cry
/cast Mortal Strike
/cast Focused Rage
/cast Hamstring
/use 13

I never noticed the rage thing thought since I pretty much always have enough rage. The issue I was seeing is the GCDs afterwords, looking at their timing in warcraft logs they were not exactly equal to 1.22 or whatever my GCD is with haste and they were all slightly different than each other. Even though in game it sure did look to me like the next GCD began right as the previous one finished.

I dug into this for a while since I was sitting at around 23% haste and frequently seeing the same issue. It ended up being that the queuing system doesn't allow you to queue multiple spells simultaneously, even when they're all on separate CDs. If you're repeatedly attempting to cast a GCD + FR + Hamstring, they all compete for the right to be queued, which delays the others. If you have just a simpler /cast FR + /cast <some GCD> macro and spam it, you'll see them cast simultaneously when they're both available on the first use, and then subsequent uses will delay one of them by about 250-300ms(from what I saw, but this is probably heavily dependent on an individual's latency). That means to fit both 5 FRs and 5 GCDs inside a BC, you only really have ~4.7s to do it instead of 5. Combined with there being some inherent latency of about 0.5% on every GCD even with perfect queuing, you end up needing to fit about 6.03s of cast time in 4.7s, which takes around 28.3% haste instead of 20%.

You can control which ability gets the queue though(between FR and a GCD at least) by putting it second in a macro, which will reliably fit 5 of the one you chose inside BC(which should obviously be the GCD ability, not FR) at the lower haste values you'd expect(~20.5-21% to overcome unavoidable latency). Hamstring really throws a wrench into everything though. Since it's only 1s, it's a mess to get it to not steal queues from the abilities you'd want to prioritize, and it often ends up delaying both your GCDs and FRs. This doesn't matter much if you're only trying to fit 4 into a BC, but it becomes very unreliable to try to do spamstring + FR + GCDs without losing both your extra GCD and extra FR unless you have even more haste. You can overcome this with carefully crafted macros that weave Hamstring into a /castsequence order, but you would need a separate macro for unbuffed haste vs BL haste for that to work, since their ideal ordering changes as your haste changes.

My net takeaway was that you could do 5 GCDs + 4 FRs at a reasonable haste breakpoint(let's say 21%), but that means giving up spamstring, which negates most of the gain of the breakpoint. Alternatively you could get 5 GCDs + 5 FRs at around 28.5%, but still have to give up spamstring, again a pretty bad proposition. To get 5 GCDs + 5 FRs + hamstring takes some even higher amount of haste, hard to say what, but probably low 30s. All of those become unfeasible and a waste to shoot for since they sacrifice too much mastery to be viable. It's also much more prone to error and difficult to play, which has its own unknown impact. If Blizzard ever negates spamstring as a useful strategy, then it may be worth revisiting the value of 5 GCDs + 4 FRs at 21% haste since it won't be sacrificing spamstring's value anymore, but until then all the breakpoints are basically pointless to achieve.

[Hoeth]

If CS/Shattered Defenses not up, I go with Execute because it hits harder (at full 30-40 rage). If I get more rage, I would stack FR, no slamming, and MS - but in that time-frame the chances of CS proccing is very high (50% Tactician) so if it does proc I'll have 3x stacks of FR, then CS then MS and right after that I stack FR again and CS should proc again. With Anger Management/Deadly Calm things become so much more manageable since BC comes off of GCD fast. I only Slam if I have like 70-80 rage and CS/WB/MS on CD. I do use WB as a secondary CS. Definitely use WB as your second CS.

The highest parses so far (albeit limited) are not following this priority, but seem to be prioritizing execute sub 20%, with MS/FR almost dropped entirely.

Either this is just an artifact of small sample sizes, or the simulations are incorrect.

[ReD-EyeD]

Is there a point where i should focus more on Vers then mastery? Or should i stack even more Mastery right now.



Apparently im to dumb to post pictures here

http://imgur.com/a/EHbe3

"Even more mastery"? You don't even have a bare minimum right now. Just stack as much mastery as you can and avoid crit.

[thefatty01]

"Even more mastery"? You don't even have a bare minimum right now. Just stack as much mastery as you can and avoid crit.

I'm only at 71% mastery, with a 870 mastery trinket. I keep getting pieces that have crit (main)/mastery with sockets and they sim higher than using a main mastery piece.

[ReD-EyeD]

I'm only at 71% mastery, with a 870 mastery trinket. I keep getting pieces that have crit (main)/mastery with sockets and they sim higher than using a main mastery piece.

It all depends on the amount of mastery/crit on these items. It's either very wrong sim or item budgets are very different. Most of the time mastery is at least doubles the crit weight. Sockets also gives a lot of mastery too and on some items like necks sockets worth around 15-20 item levels.

[Yhcti]

How are you guys finding Arms for general purpose? world content, mythics, raids etc...? Losing faith in my Havoc DH a little due to not wanting to Fel Rush for dps (find it so clunky) part way through lvling the Warrior alt, how are you guys coping?

[ReD-EyeD]

How are you guys finding Arms for general purpose? world content, mythics, raids etc...? Losing faith in my Havoc DH a little due to not wanting to Fel Rush for dps (find it so clunky) part way through lvling the Warrior alt, how are you guys coping?

I bet you will find Focused Rage Arms even more clunky than Fel Rush DH.

[jjbarea]

there is no way anyone can play focused rage arms in open world thats just blatantly garbage. Play fury or simple arms with trauma/opp strikes.

[Xanthan]

The highest parses so far (albeit limited) are not following this priority, but seem to be prioritizing execute sub 20%, with MS/FR almost dropped entirely.

Either this is just an artifact of small sample sizes, or the simulations are incorrect.

The current SimC APL hasn't used FR/MS outside BC in execute range since the FR nerf.

[Deleted]

got a question about a trinket, what do u guys think is better for long lasting fight/raiding, horn of valor mythic 840, or vindictive pvp trinket that gives:
1123 str; 900 mastery ;
cant decide

[Yhcti]

Interesting. Sounds like whilst Arms provides the major dps benefit with the tricky rotation (high risk, high reward I guess) it seems it's more of a ballache/disappointment than Havoc...? or are some of you guys just being a bit o.t.t with the negatives?

[thefatty01]

I bet you will find Focused Rage Arms even more clunky than Fel Rush DH.

I dont use Focused Rage in world content. I use Mortal Combo / OP and its really fun, and not bad at all.

[ReD-EyeD]

Interesting. Sounds like whilst Arms provides the major dps benefit with the tricky rotation (high risk, high reward I guess) it seems it's more of a ballache/disappointment than Havoc...? or are some of you guys just being a bit o.t.t with the negatives?

Imagine rotation when you have to do 200 apm in 5 seconds then press 1 button that does nothing, but buffs your next ability over and over again. It's not a simple rotation (as someone would argue about for sure) with a lot of min-maxing, but it is very random and explosive.

- - - Updated - - -

I dont use Focused Rage in world content. I use Mortal Combo / OP and its really fun, and not bad at all.

I'm using FR in world quests. I find it fine actually, especially if you oneshot anything with 850+ ilvl. At this point you kinda don't care about your build in the outdoors.

[Holofernes]

The highest parses so far (albeit limited) are not following this priority, but seem to be prioritizing execute sub 20%, with MS/FR almost dropped entirely.

Either this is just an artifact of small sample sizes, or the simulations are incorrect.

for me i use shattered defense buff on execute, most of the time.
its more damage per rage due to the interaction with the rage reduce talent. 40 rage execute for 17 rage + debuff is more worth to me than 20 rage ms for rage, the ms i could do the following global anyway and i dont regard the amount of fr stacks at all. yeah the number of ms with 3 stacks is bigger when used with shattered defense, but i prefer doing the execute and the ms afterwards. Basically i risk a ms reset worth of 40 rage, but for me it plays out.

[Eninya]

After getting asked the night before Emerald Nightmare opens to go Arms (after having a discussion the night before Legion hit that the safe bet would be to go Fury), I'm now having to rush to farm Exploit relics and 20+ traits for Arms. However, we full cleared normal the first night with only a couple wipes on Elerethe (loltransition) and Xavius (the new Archimonde), and I tied our resident Arms warrior on a few fights. Performance hinges on how long the Execute phase lasts, though. To that end, I didn't get to Sense Death, but Juggernaut + Massacre is a massive damage spike, overwhelmingly so.

To those saying FR Arms is hard to play: It's nearly identical to Fury. It's not GCD locked, and you don't have Bloodthirst, so it's a bit slower paced. You just go spam crazy during Battle Cry.

[Yhcti]

play a lot of sc2 so high apm is fine by me, I just love results and fast gameplay

[Deleted]

So I dont care much about being top.... But I really like arms but dislike FR.

Anyone got any numbers on how arms do with mortal combo or in for the kill instead of FR? I dont care about being the best as I said, but I do want to be decent at least :P