The George Lucas versions of Episodes VII-IX we will never get to see

[A dot Ham]

By that anecdotal evidence, I've never re-watched any of the prequels except for a mashup Machete order of 1-6, and I've re-watched 7 twice after the theatrical viewing.

1) When you read what Lucas's original ideas for Star Wars was (Luke being in his 60s, etc), and realize how he was reigned in, I think you do recognize that he's not necessarily a creative genius. He is certainly a technical/effects genius, and did groundbreaking work in that area, and he also brought science-fiction back into the American mainstream, even though Star Wars is fantasy. Shatner said last year that the only reason Star Trek was renewed was because of Star Wars success. For that, I give him credit
.
2) The prequels WERE trash, from almost every film-making perspectives. The only bright spot is the costuming and the music. If you want to associate creative genius with Star Wars, that genius is John Williams. The prequels will be studied in film school as negative examples for what not to do in terms of direction, writing, storyboarding, etc.

Is 7 a great film? Is it Citizen Kane? Nope. Is it even the first Matrix movie? Not really. It's an above-average space adventure film continuing a groundbreaking series from the early 80s. It didn't push any boundaries, for sure. It is, hopefully, A New Hope of the new trilogy (IE, the "worst", not bad, but not as good as what follows). Both the director and the studio thought it necessary to ground that movie in re-introducing the universe with things that echoed the original. That was a sound decision, imo, and leaves them to do whatever the fuck they want going forward. I'll say right now: if 8 again echoes the originals, then you'll have a point. Having 7 do it just makes sense.

I am not sure I have ever met anyone who claimed to be a Star Wars fan who has only seen the movies once.

This is where you are completely out of touch with just about everyone here. Regardless of our opinions on the sequels, prequels, or original.

Star Wars has remained a relevant franchise because of the fans, because of the people that share the story/movies with friends, family, and pass the story on to their kids, like humanity has been doing since we recorded history. It is because of these "re-watchers" that TFA was not only relevant but a success. I doubt the prequels would have been the success they were without that fan base. TFA would NOT have roped in a new generation of Star Wars lovers... without those "re-watchers".

Despite hating it. I saw TFA in the theatre 3 times and have seen a few more since its release on Blu-Ray... the adventure gets old. So again it doesn't have the re-watchability that the others have. I have seen the originals more times than I care to mention, as have most people who I would consider TRUE fans. Not to mention that we (my friends and I) did a marathon of the moves with each and every prequel release, and again 1-6 with TFA. Its the love for the franchise that allows us to turn a blind eye to hayden christensen, jar jar, god awful acting, and even worse dialogue. But again... that IS Star Wars... its cheesy.

I would love to see a source for the prequels being studied in film school. I don't know what egotistical hack is telling students NOT to be successful. Also machete order... aka Topher Grace's film school project... ya cuz that guy is an expert on film making. In case my counter point isn't sinking in, I'll say it again... Topher Grace! LULZ!

Most fans... who have a love/hate relationship with George Lucas still at least credit him with the originals. Your hatred of the man... is weird to be frank. I mean you seriously want me and the rest of us to buy into your statement that he literally had NOTHING to offer the entire franchise beyond his technical/effects expertise. Really? Nothing else? Nothing at all...

I don't know about anyone else but I'd really appreciate it if you cut the shit. Stop with your condescension, and stop pretending to be an expert on film, much less Star Wars, you're a mod on MMO-C get some perspective Mr. Film Aficionado!

Bottom line a sequel is "a published, broadcast, or recorded work that continues the story or develops the theme of an earlier one." I would be just as pissed at any of my favorite Books, TV shows, video games, or other story telling mediums tried to rehash an older version and pass it off as a sequel.

It wasn't a sound decision. Because they could have done whatever the fuck they wanted with VII and people would have seen it and taken there kids to it.

TFA, more than the prequels will be the one movie we all skip when watching them 1-9. Why? Because if you've seen 4, you've seen 7. I guess if you're a mega douche you'll skip 4 and just watch 7... cuz its SOOOOOOO AMAZING!

[Damajin]

It's already been pointed out in this thread how Lucas had to be reigned in by the original screenwriters, producers and the like because the guy has good general instincts but really has no perspective on "enough, or too much" in a nutshell.

As the era of the internet has opened people up to more and more background information that's where you'll see the tide of opinion turn against him because early on there was only general media coverage and in house, self produced behind the scenes info that is of course going to do nothing but buff the guys' image up. Once people were able to speak directly and without filter or interference you start to find all sorts of things out about what Lucas wanted to do originally. Luke as some old man, C3-PO as some sleazy salesman type of personality and all the other shit he wanted to do yet was talked out of at least until we get to the Special Editions where he crammed in a ton of shit to show how he originally intended it to be and what he ended up doing on the prequels we can only thank those screenwriters and producers who told him no, you are going to ruin it if you do this because otherwise we wouldn't have gotten past A New Hope.

Talking about how much money the Phantom Menace made, how much of an impact Star Wars has had throughout decades and all that is ultimately irrelevant because if Phantom Menace was released first, as it was filmed with how shoddy the film is, how annoying the characters are and how scattered the story is it would have flopped and we wouldn't even be talking about it or anything Star Wars related now. Lucas had COMPLETE control during the prequels, a staff full of Yes men who weren't going to stop him from doing what he wanted to do and those 3 films are the best he could come up with? It's a joke, and so is the idea that the guy is primarily responsible for the franchise. He originated it, came up with the base ideas but as a creative agent and storyteller he has no sense of restraint and no real empathy with his characters which is why his prequel scripts were horrible, 7th graders in basic creative writing classes can write better scripts than he can.

The bit about everyone at the time enjoying the prequels is funny too. That's just a tad bit, just a little bit mistaken but you've already got half the pitcher of Kool Aid drunk you might as well finish it off.

[cyberglum]

When you read what Lucas's original ideas for Star Wars was (Luke being in his 60s, etc), and realize how he was reigned in, I think you do recognize that he's not necessarily a creative genius.

To be fair, most original screenplays are re-written, look at the re-writes Bladerunner went through. People seem to be putting so much weight on this during the course of this debate when its not really a very strong, valid point. Sure, some of the original concepts may seem weird, rubbish or whatever but Lucas was the one with the original vision.

The script just went through several re-writes *just* like any other movie.

[A dot Ham]

To be fair, most original screenplays are re-written, look at the re-writes Bladerunner went through. People seem to be putting so much weight on this during the course of this debate when its not really a very strong, valid point. Sure, some of the original concepts may seem weird, rubbish or whatever but Lucas was the one with the original vision.

The script just went through several re-writes *just* like any other movie.

The irony is that TFA has a female lead... and Luke is 60...

All these things that prove GL was/is a baddy, yet you're okay with it when Abrams does it.

- - - Updated - - -

The bit about everyone at the time enjoying the prequels is funny too. That's just a tad bit, just a little bit mistaken but you've already got half the pitcher of Kool Aid drunk you might as well finish it off.

Did you see I?

Did you come back for II?

How about III?

So either you found them enjoyable, you're a glutton for punishment, or just have a really weird hobby of spending top dollar on terrible movies.

But if you need to lie to help solidify your point... be my guest. I am not saying there weren't people who didn't like it. But the overall opinion at the time was they were liked. It was until years later people started to hate on them the way they do now. Nobody walked out of Phantom Menace and began talking about how it was the same rehashed shit... or even talking about how they hated Jar Jar (though we did).

- - - Updated - - -

Just to spite you guys I am gonna go home and watch episodes I-III, and I'm gonna enjoy myself! Side note episode III is probably my favorite of all 7 thus far. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[Damajin]

The irony is that TFA has a female lead... and Luke is 60...

All these things that prove GL was/is a baddy, yet you're okay with it when Abrams does it.

- - - Updated - - -



Did you see I?

Did you come back for II?

How about III?

So either you found them enjoyable, you're a glutton for punishment, or just have a really weird hobby of spending top dollar on terrible movies.

But if you need to lie to help solidify your point... be my guest. I am not saying there weren't people who didn't like it. But the overall opinion at the time was they were liked. It was until years later people started to hate on them the way they do now. Nobody walked out of Phantom Menace and began talking about how it was the same rehashed shit... or even talking about how they hated Jar Jar (though we did).

- - - Updated - - -

Just to spite you guys I am gonna go home and watch episodes I-III, and I'm gonna enjoy myself! Side note episode III is probably my favorite of all 7 thus far. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Of course I saw them, the first one I saw out of general excitement and was let down, then the 2nd one I saw hoping that it wasn't as bad as the first and was disappointed there too. I saw the third one out of a sense of duty to finish the series and a sense of duty to my love of the original trilogy.

Top dollar? What country are you from? When those came out ticket prices were much cheaper than they are now.

Plenty of people talked about how much they hated the Phantom Menace. When I saw it I was in my mid 20s and was able to formulate a coherent thought and evaluation of things. I'm sorry if you were too young at the time or if you weren't, unable to do the same.

I don't smoke, pipes or otherwise. Only incredibly disgusting people do that. Enjoy yourself all you like, there's lots of people who despite movies being shit enjoy them, doesn't mean those movies aren't shit.

[A dot Ham]

Of course I saw them, the first one I saw out of general excitement and was let down, then the 2nd one I saw hoping that it wasn't as bad as the first and was disappointed there too. I saw the third one out of a sense of duty to finish the series and a sense of duty to my love of the original trilogy.

Top dollar? What country are you from? When those came out ticket prices were much cheaper than they are now.

Plenty of people talked about how much they hated the Phantom Menace. When I saw it I was in my mid 20s and was able to formulate a coherent thought and evaluation of things. I'm sorry if you were too young at the time or if you weren't, unable to do the same.

I don't smoke, pipes or otherwise. Only incredibly disgusting people do that. Enjoy yourself all you like, there's lots of people who despite movies being shit enjoy them, doesn't mean those movies aren't shit.

Interesting how mature you are claiming to be yet your response has quickly devolved into insults, and while you may have been able to formulate coherent thought and evaluation in your 20s, old age has apparently slowed your mind.

Top dollar... meaning you are seeing it in the theater... not renting it. Sheesh breh keep up.

Whats the expression? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Yet that is exactly what you did with the prequels. So I suppose there isn't much to discuss here since we have established that you aren't even sane.

Its also a shame that you can't remember the positive reception of the time. (That damn old age again) Because while I conceded that there were people who didn't like it, the overall opinion at the time was positive.

Sense of duty? I guess I shouldn't be all that shocked by that statement... this is MMO-C after all, filled with tons of people that don't play and can't let go, or play even though they hate the game. Its the same with you and Star Wars. I am not a doctor, but I fear you may be experiencing symptoms of psychosis.

[frogger237]

I don't get how you can be a fan of the original trilogy and not like Episode 7. They managed to make a George Lucas film better than George Lucas can himself, I guess the fanboys are just wetting their knickers over that fact.

I didn't like it because its like they took everything from the old ones and just added more on to it.

New droid is more cute and tinier than R2-D2
The female yoda is older and seemingly more powerful (at least based on first appearance) and quirkier than yoda.
Rey is more poor than luke and can do everything. Somehow affording flight simulator lessons while barley getting enough to eat.
The death planet is more powerful than a deathstar and somehow is able to shoot multiple magical homing plasma beams and eat a star all while maintaining its atmosphere and not incinerating everything within the vicinity.
Kylo Ren is more emo than Anakin in the prequels and Snoke is more ugly then the emperor and in order to make him more imposing than the emperor they make him appear as a giant hologram.

The only things in the film that don't feel like they tried to just make better/over the top are Finn and Poe but they will probably end up ruining them by making Finn a super Jedi and Poe a god damn ninja who uses his 14 foot cock to swing thru the forests of the new Endor we will invariably get.

[Linri]

Long live Wickett, and the Great Ewok Adventure! Aka Episode 8-9 lol

[Damajin]

Interesting how mature you are claiming to be yet your response has quickly devolved into insults, and while you may have been able to formulate coherent thought and evaluation in your 20s, old age has apparently slowed your mind.

Top dollar... meaning you are seeing it in the theater... not renting it. Sheesh breh keep up.

Whats the expression? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Yet that is exactly what you did with the prequels. So I suppose there isn't much to discuss here since we have established that you aren't even sane.

Its also a shame that you can't remember the positive reception of the time. (That damn old age again) Because while I conceded that there were people who didn't like it, the overall opinion at the time was positive.

Sense of duty? I guess I shouldn't be all that shocked by that statement... this is MMO-C after all, filled with tons of people that don't play and can't let go, or play even though they hate the game. Its the same with you and Star Wars. I am not a doctor, but I fear you may be experiencing symptoms of psychosis.

That's amusing, pot calling the kettle black dropping would be insult bombs.

Unless you're going to a 3D Imax showing or some special event showing no movie ticket is top dollar, so how about you keep up with inflation at least.

Quite sane, thanks though.

The overall reception wasn't that positive, it's what is called residual afterglow. It was something that faded pretty fast altogether, and that was only maintained by the ulra fanboys to whom no part of any Star Wars movie can be bad or out of place.

Yes, sense of duty in wanting to see a series through even if you're not enjoying it. That's not a psychosis, you're pretty much completely off the mark here.

[A dot Ham]

That's amusing, pot calling the kettle black dropping would be insult bombs.

Unless you're going to a 3D Imax showing or some special event showing no movie ticket is top dollar, so how about you keep up with inflation at least.

Quite sane, thanks though.

The overall reception wasn't that positive, it's what is called residual afterglow. It was something that faded pretty fast altogether, and that was only maintained by the ulra fanboys to whom no part of any Star Wars movie can be bad or out of place.

Yes, sense of duty in wanting to see a series through even if you're not enjoying it. That's not a psychosis, you're pretty much completely off the mark here.

Anything else... cuz you haven't said one thing that is the least bit convincing that makes TFA any better than the prequels.

Because I would take any one of the prequels and their trashy glory, over the uninspired, unimaginative slap in the face that was TFA.

BTW your sanity wasn't in question. I established you're not all there. So I'm not going to go round and round with someone so completely out of touch with reality.

I can however get behind your "residual afterglow" statement. Quickly fading or not... initial reception had "glow". Whereas day 1 of TFA there was a 50/50 split of people not liking it and immediately comparing it to episode IV.

Also as stated previously... I actually would have been okay if they decided to complete remake the entire Star Wars universe, what I find insulting is trying to pass this off as a sequel or a continuation of the story. It should have been a new story in that case. Coming full circle back to the original post here... when Lucasarts was garage saled off... George Lucas handed them a completed script for episode VII, and the framework for VIII and IX. Accepting VII for the shit that is, canon or not, I would still very much like to see what it was he had in mind for the continuation of the series.

[Damajin]

Anything else... cuz you haven't said one thing that is the least bit convincing that makes TFA any better than the prequels.

Because I would take any one of the prequels and their trashy glory, over the uninspired, unimaginative slap in the face that was TFA.

BTW your sanity wasn't in question. I established you're not all there. So I'm not going to go round and round with someone so completely out of touch with reality.

I can however get behind your "residual afterglow" statement. Quickly fading or not... initial reception had "glow". Whereas day 1 of TFA there was a 50/50 split of people not liking it and immediately comparing it to episode IV.

Also as stated previously... I actually would have been okay if they decided to complete remake the entire Star Wars universe, what I find insulting is trying to pass this off as a sequel or a continuation of the story. It should have been a new story in that case. Coming full circle back to the original post here... when Lucasarts was garage saled off... George Lucas handed them a completed script for episode VII, and the framework for VIII and IX. Accepting VII for the shit that is, canon or not, I would still very much like to see what it was he had in mind for the continuation of the series.

I wasn't vouching for TFA. I was speaking against the prequels. I agree with whoever said a few pages back that Disney took the safe route with TFA and made a fan service homage film, they certainly didn't push the envelope much and there's a good chunk of that movie that I didn't enjoy as well though it was leaps and bounds ahead of the prequels, especially the first two. Abrams still turned it into some wishy washy movie with little depth, but in its' homage to the original trilogy it acquires enough depth to actually be more interesting than the prequels.

Rofl, you're funny. You're definitely not in any position to be establishing anyones' sanity.

Of course you would have liked to see what he had in mind for the rest of the series, you think the prequels are actually good. They're not. As we saw with the prequels and with Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull we need to do everything we can to keep George Lucas away from films for the rest of his days because he's more or less shot his wad with the original trilogy, and it wasn't even all his wad in the first place. Objectively I would have been alright with a complete remake as well, provided it was good and kept the essence of what Star Wars is about but we're not going to get that. Hollywood doesn't do that, they make real safe films now min/max'd to sell tickets and merch and generate sequels.

[A dot Ham]

I wasn't vouching for TFA. I was speaking against the prequels. I agree with whoever said a few pages back that Disney took the safe route with TFA and made a fan service homage film, they certainly didn't push the envelope much and there's a good chunk of that movie that I didn't enjoy as well though it was leaps and bounds ahead of the prequels, especially the first two. Abrams still turned it into some wishy washy movie with little depth, but in its' homage to the original trilogy it acquires enough depth to actually be more interesting than the prequels.

Rofl, you're funny. You're definitely not in any position to be establishing anyones' sanity.

Of course you would have liked to see what he had in mind for the rest of the series, you think the prequels are actually good. They're not. As we saw with the prequels and with Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull we need to do everything we can to keep George Lucas away from films for the rest of his days because he's more or less shot his wad with the original trilogy, and it wasn't even all his wad in the first place. Objectively I would have been alright with a complete remake as well, provided it was good and kept the essence of what Star Wars is about but we're not going to get that. Hollywood doesn't do that, they make real safe films now min/max'd to sell tickets and merch and generate sequels.

This is my point though. The fans... the ones that have kept the franchise alive long after the movies were fresh in our minds. Are the ones that enjoyed the prequels and continue to watch, and experience the adventure again and again with family, friends, and pass it on to our children (if they'll accept it).

People that go to a movie for a once or twice through and casually critique it and pretend to be Siskel & Ebert, like any of us care, whether they "like" it or not are not to be considered fans. So for the ultra fanboy (the people that have kept Star Wars relevant) the ones you think are bottom feeders for liking the prequels, it wasn't fan service. True fan service would have been either delivering on George Lucas's direction for the film... OR going the route of the Thrawn trilogy. THAT would have been fan service. I think you guys need to look up the term "fan service" because I don't think any fan was looking for a reminder of what happened in episode IV.

[Damajin]

This is my point though. The fans... the ones that have kept the franchise alive long after the movies were fresh in our minds. Are the ones that enjoyed the prequels and continue to watch, and experience the adventure again and again with family, friends, and pass it on to our children (if they'll accept it).

People that go to a movie for a once or twice through and casually critique it and pretend to be Siskel & Ebert, like any of us care, whether they "like" it or not are not to be considered fans. So for the ultra fanboy (the people that have kept Star Wars relevant) the ones you think are bottom feeders for liking the prequels, it wasn't fan service. True fan service would have been either delivering on George Lucas's direction for the film... OR going the route of the Thrawn trilogy. THAT would have been fan service. I think you guys need to look up the term "fan service" because I don't think any fan was looking for a reminder of what happened in episode IV.

You're a little too fixated on your presumption that what makes a fan is an unabashed appreciation of shitty prequel movies. There were and continue to be many people who saw/see those atrocities and just more or less blank them out of their consideration of Star Wars, because honestly those movies weren't telling a story we didn't already know from the historical discussion and back story in the original trilogy.

If you're going to make prequels on a hugely successful franchise that some people love to the point of knowing the entirety of the backstory and all the niche stories and plots before you make those prequels you better make it pretty fucking amazing otherwise you more or less shit all over them and the legacy that the original films created. This is what Lucas did, and then had the audacity to more or less insult his hardcore fans who thought he did a terrible job with them. What a great guy and custodian of cinematic history.

People that go to a movie for a once or twice through and casually critique it and pretend to be Siskel & Ebert, like any of us care, whether they "like" it or not are not to be considered fans.

Yeah, this is called zealotry, or partisanship. Something I don't mind as I am one myself as well, but you slamming me under the objective banner of a reasonable stance is hysterical under that premise. That you think no fan was looking for a reminder of what happened in IV is partially correct, they didn't need any reminders of what happened they needed to be taken back to the place that spawned all the hysteria and fan zealotry in the first place through telling a genuinely great story and creating characters people would care about and situations that compelled, inspired and enriched them which is what the original trilogy was so successful in doing and what the prequels were an utter failure at.

[A dot Ham]

You're a little too fixated on your presumption that what makes a fan is an unabashed appreciation of shitty prequel movies. There were and continue to be many people who saw/see those atrocities and just more or less blank them out of their consideration of Star Wars, because honestly those movies weren't telling a story we didn't already know from the historical discussion and back story in the original trilogy.

If you're going to make prequels on a hugely successful franchise that some people love to the point of knowing the entirety of the backstory and all the niche stories and plots before you make those prequels you better make it pretty fucking amazing otherwise you more or less shit all over them and the legacy that the original films created. This is what Lucas did, and then had the audacity to more or less insult his hardcore fans who thought he did a terrible job with them. What a great guy and custodian of cinematic history.



Yeah, this is called zealotry, or partisanship. Something I don't mind as I am one myself as well, but you slamming me under the objective banner of a reasonable stance is hysterical under that premise. That you think no fan was looking for a reminder of what happened in IV is partially correct, they didn't need any reminders of what happened they needed to be taken back to the place that spawned all the hysteria and fan zealotry in the first place through telling a genuinely great story and creating characters people would care about and situations that compelled, inspired and enriched them which is what the original trilogy was so successful in doing and what the prequels were an utter failure at.

Its his movie... its his fucking story. If you don't like it fine... but then you don't like star wars. You like SPECIFIC movies.

Hey Michelangelo your work on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was phenomenal... but we really don't like your later works that you did on the walls so we are gonna paint them white and pretend like they never happened. Oh and by the way... we just fucking hate you now. God damn you if you ever pick up a paint brush again. Oh by the way we heard you had an apprentice who mixed your paint for you... so its like not even really YOUR work amirite.

It just sounds fucking stupid. You either accept it in its entirety (as I accept the shit that is TFA) or you don't. You either like Star Wars and the world that was created and the subsequent inspired works after... or you don't. Its not a big deal if you DON'T like it. But you as a viewer, an audience member don't get to decide what is or isn't star wars. So you either like Star Wars... or you don't.

I just think in general people are delusional about how amazing the orignial trilogy was/is compared to the prequels while yes Hayden Christensen was terribad... Mark Hamill had some pretty garbage acting moments too. Dare I say it wasn't exactly Harrison Ford's greatest performance either. There is a reason no one though the original movie would do well...

I think if you can come to terms with the fact that the original Star Wars was equally as bad and as cheesy as the prequels you might be able to enjoy them a little more.

I guess what we are disagreeing on is how GREAT the original trilogy was. I agree that there are some god awful moments (some elements throughout) of the prequels, but on the whole I think it was on par with Lucas's previous work... he just had new tech to play with.

I can enjoy cheese... I grew up watching dubbed Godzilla movies, I liked Waterworld... I own just about every Michael Bay and Zack Snyder movie, often I'm not looking for some great story... just something I haven't seen before... cool shit and explosions. The prequels delivered that.

[Damajin]

Its his movie... its his fucking story. If you don't like it fine... but then you don't like star wars. You like SPECIFIC movies.

Hey Michelangelo your work on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was phenomenal... but we really don't like your later works that you did on the walls so we are gonna paint them white and pretend like they never happened. Oh and by the way... we just fucking hate you now. God damn you if you ever pick up a paint brush again. Oh by the way we heard you had an apprentice who mixed your paint for you... so its like not even really YOUR work amirite.

It just sounds fucking stupid. You either accept it in its entirety (as I accept the shit that is TFA) or you don't. You either like Star Wars and the world that was created and the subsequent inspired works after... or you don't. Its not a big deal if you DON'T like it. But you as a viewer, an audience member don't get to decide what is or isn't star wars. So you either like Star Wars... or you don't.

I just think in general people are delusional about how amazing the orignial trilogy was/is compared to the prequels while yes Hayden Christensen was terribad... Mark Hamill had some pretty garbage acting moments too. Dare I say it wasn't exactly Harrison Ford's greatest performance either. There is a reason no one though the original movie would do well...

I think if you can come to terms with the fact that the original Star Wars was equally as bad and as cheesy as the prequels you might be able to enjoy them a little more.

I guess what we are disagreeing on is how GREAT the original trilogy was. I agree that there are some god awful moments (some elements throughout) of the prequels, but on the whole I think it was on par with Lucas's previous work... he just had new tech to play with.

Your zero sum game here totally fails because the only ones who choose to be defined by it are those who think exactly as you do. Enjoy whatever company you find from such things. People of different considerations will continue to be Star Wars fans even while totally shitting on the well deserving of being shit on prequels.

You're right, I like specific movies in the Star Wars universe, and I like Star Wars. That you are unable to experience or separate into distinctive categories your enjoyment and apathy is your own fault and problem, not mine.

The viewer does get to decide what is Star Wars with their subjective opinion. Are the prequels Star Wars movies? Yup. Are they shit? Yup. Neither fact negates the other, though one is objective and the other is subjective: they exist simultaneously.

There was very little in the original trilogy that was bad, and most of that owed to the fact that the 'actors' at the time weren't celebrated, huge names with tons of bona fides for the most part. Nowadays even the extras have quite a bit of schooling and acting talent but things were different back then. There's campy parts and whatnot and that's fine. The prequels were just shit all the way through, with next to no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

I can say that and still adamantly declare myself a fan and enjoyer of Star Wars. I don't need your approval or acceptance to do so.

The difference between the original trilogy and the prequels isn't night and day, it's year to year. The gap is so huge and monumental that it creates such a huge overwhelming contrast that only kids like you can ignore. There was literally nothing about the prequels that was revolutionary, or pushed the boundaries or told a story that was exciting and made you sit on the edge of your seat. By the time the Phantom Menace dropped not only was the back story old news but the entirety of the way it was filmed and created was old news. So in essence what had to happen there was that Lucas had to knock the story angle out of the park and his script, storyboarding and editing process was such shit it was unbelievable.

You don't have to like this. I don't have to care. Unless you have something valid to add to this discussion I'm done with it.

[A dot Ham]

Your zero sum game here totally fails because the only ones who choose to be defined by it are those who think exactly as you do. Enjoy whatever company you find from such things. People of different considerations will continue to be Star Wars fans even while totally shitting on the well deserving of being shit on prequels.

You're right, I like specific movies in the Star Wars universe, and I like Star Wars. That you are unable to experience or separate into distinctive categories your enjoyment and apathy is your own fault and problem, not mine.

The viewer does get to decide what is Star Wars with their subjective opinion. Are the prequels Star Wars movies? Yup. Are they shit? Yup. Neither fact negates the other, though one is objective and the other is subjective: they exist simultaneously.

There was very little in the original trilogy that was bad, and most of that owed to the fact that the 'actors' at the time weren't celebrated, huge names with tons of bona fides for the most part. Nowadays even the extras have quite a bit of schooling and acting talent but things were different back then. There's campy parts and whatnot and that's fine. The prequels were just shit all the way through, with next to no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

I can say that and still adamantly declare myself a fan and enjoyer of Star Wars. I don't need your approval or acceptance to do so.

The difference between the original trilogy and the prequels isn't night and day, it's year to year. The gap is so huge and monumental that it creates such a huge overwhelming contrast that only kids like you can ignore. There was literally nothing about the prequels that was revolutionary, or pushed the boundaries or told a story that was exciting and made you sit on the edge of your seat. By the time the Phantom Menace dropped not only was the back story old news but the entirety of the way it was filmed and created was old news. So in essence what had to happen there was that Lucas had to knock the story angle out of the park and his script, storyboarding and editing process was such shit it was unbelievable.

You don't have to like this. I don't have to care. Unless you have something valid to add to this discussion I'm done with it.

No you don't get to decide what is or isn't star wars... you don't. I would never say "I like candy." because I don't. I love chocolate... but I would never claim I like candy. Similarly a person who likes less than 1/3 of what has been produced by Lucasarts in the Star Wars universe, shouldn't/wouldn't claim "I like Star Wars." because you don't you have admitted you don't. You like the original Trilogy, well Star Wars has become sooooo much more than just those 3 movies.

There are so many franchises that have grown and evolved... and far too many of you baby boomers who think the only thing ever good to come from them was the original iteration, its not true. So for you to claim that you "like" something, whilst hating anything current being produced from said franchise is asinine. You would say "I liked ______."

I wouldn't expect a dinosaur such as yourself (since you are sooooo old and mature) to think anything from their era is/was shit. But the very fact that you can't look at it objectively speaks volumes. It was shit, it was B movie, with a blockbuster budget. Everything about it was like that. The fact that you are willing to give those movies a pass yet hold the prequels to a much higher standard is again psychotic. Both the original trilogy and the prequels have that George Lucas flair. If you can ignore the original Trilogy's short comings and enjoy it, you should be able to employ those same tactics and enjoy the prequels. (at the very least tolerate them) Nobody has such staunch hatred for Michael Bay and his style of movie making (I guess they do, they just don't watch his movies) they all have the same timbre, likewise everything George Lucas has produced also has had the same timbre. So again, I just don't understand how:
(1) You can LOVE the original trilogy
(2) HATE the prequels
(3) HATE the man that made the whole thing possible

It is P S Y C H O T I C. I think you are absolutely DELUSIONAL regarding how GOOD the original Trilogy is/was, and just because GL didn't push the envelope of innovation with the prequels they are bad. If that is the case, then the ONLY thing the original Trilogy has going for it, was it was innovative. But that isn't even true, because Lucasarts pushed the boundaries of what is/was possible for CGI. Honestly if GL had employed the same "retro" tactics of special effects/practical effects in the making of the prequels he probably would have been criticized for not using the technology available to him. Why? Because you haters are that irrational about it.

You're a stubborn mule with blinders... and that's okay, but recognize it and own it. I am so glad you are done, because you didn't really have much to say from the beginning.

[Kokolums]

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who though this, IMO 7 will age worse than Phantom Menace did because it's basically just a fan service film with no real depth.

I agree. In the long run, it will be the least-liked movie in the series. Not only is the plot a rehash, but Han Solo dies. Fans don't want to see either.