[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[CloudedInSanity]

The talisman does terrible healing on its own.

You mean the Naglfar Fare?

[Gollyday]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Vv8/edit#gid=0

That spreadsheet has trinket ratings (tab 2).

[Taeldorian]

Talisman.

Thanks thats what I thought. Ty!

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Vv8/edit#gid=0

That spreadsheet has trinket ratings (tab 2).

Thank you for that as well! Doesnt have the Talisman there as far as I can tell though. Either way good spreadsheet.

[vashter]

Does anyone knows how to add and remove debuff on Vuhdo addons? so I can learn to take out debuff on raid frame without having it clogged up.

[EzG]

You mean the Naglfar Fare?

Whoops. Yep thats the one. ^.^

[Narshe]

Yeah and how much overhealing? This talent is stupid honestly.. 90% of the time you build up a big hs only to be sniped or no one to use it on and it over heals a shitlod

Ya it overhealed for probably 90% of it, thats the part that made me laugh :/

[Iamanalien]

Paladins don't get snipe healed...

Blessing of Virtue is terrible for raid, now if you really want to get snipe healed go that.

Hello Clouds. I noticed this comment and decided to ask a question. Basically, I agree that BoV is not good in a raid setting. I mean, I tried it, but it just seems to not be as good as the BotL and BoF. However, my question to you is if you think it will ever be viable, and is there a logical reason that some people recommend it so much?

Again, I agree it is not good for raiding. But, I am just trying to figure out why some people seem to think it is. Thanks ahead of time for any response.

[Deleted]

Does anyone knows how to add and remove debuff on Vuhdo addons? so I can learn to take out debuff on raid frame without having it clogged up.

at the debuffs tab.

You can add some to the ignore list. Or at the custom tab you can type in the id or name and then select stacks/timer/background color.

[camicio]

Guess Aladya was right. Paladins are so bad right now xD

Lol i went through the post history and found his "Dumpster tier" reference. Bit of a shame here because i was just leveling the pally as a casual alt and i really like their character hall. I also geared him up with about 150k worth of BOEs and am stomping quests, feels good lol. However if holy is dumpster tier and ret is boring tier it is pretty disappointing. O wells we'll see what happens.

[Viskah]

Lol i went through the post history and found his "Dumpster tier" reference. Bit of a shame here because i was just leveling the pally as a casual alt and i really like their character hall. I also geared him up with about 150k worth of BOEs and am stomping quests, feels good lol. However if holy is dumpster tier and ret is boring tier it is pretty disappointing. O wells we'll see what happens.

Aladya plays on completely difference level than us (or well probably most of us), but from my experience it hasn't been "dumpster" tier. But again at his level of play, any small difference could make it dumpster tier.

My biggest complaint is I feel pretty bad on heavy AOE healing, Nythendra for example, I just let the druids and shamans do their thing and I just do my best. Other than that I feel completely fine.

[camicio]

Aladya plays on completely difference level than us (or well probably most of us), but from my experience it hasn't been "dumpster" tier. But again at his level of play, any small difference could make it dumpster tier.

My biggest complaint is I feel pretty bad on heavy AOE healing, Nythendra for example, I just let the druids and shamans do their thing and I just do my best. Other than that I feel completely fine.

Sorry I wasn't clear. The holy paladin is a perfectly fine class and does what it is intended to do which is tank healing. On a casual, semi hard core level this is perfectly fine.

I think on cutting edge mythic content while being undergeared for an tightly tuned boss those little things that the pally cannot bring to the table really hurts it. I can see where the problems come from though, some decent movement required for bosses and also constant strong AOE damage from the raid bosses (Less spiky tank hits) + lack of mobility really hurt the paladin when you are playing at a high mythic level.

It's a shame blizzard removed the sacrifice rune that would of at least boosted up the viability of the holy paladin, but there are other issues with the class too. Anyways having said that the above problems don't really apply to the overwhelming majority of players on this forum.

[CloudedInSanity]

Hello Clouds. I noticed this comment and decided to ask a question. Basically, I agree that BoV is not good in a raid setting. I mean, I tried it, but it just seems to not be as good as the BotL and BoF. However, my question to you is if you think it will ever be viable, and is there a logical reason that some people recommend it so much?

Again, I agree it is not good for raiding. But, I am just trying to figure out why some people seem to think it is. Thanks ahead of time for any response.

It suffers from a few key problems in raid. First of all the mana cost, on long fights in raids it's a ton of extra mana to dump where just a static beacon doesn't cost anything. The other factor is that the targets chosen are random and you could get people that are at 80% HP vs 30% HP. And the last one is that by the time you Virtue, then get 1-2 casts off it's very likely that at least 1 if not 2 or more of those people have already been topped off by your other healers.

Beacon of the Lightbringer makes our Mastery a lot better, because it basically guarantees people will always be within 20 yards of either you or the tanks, while also buffing Light of Dawn by 30%, and Light of Dawn does a pretty significant amount of healing in itself.

Also: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JRPmQ7x386DZkGTv

Logs for our legendary shoulders if anyone was wondering.

[Gilthresa]

This was my exact thinking as well, it doesn't transfer to my beacon and it isn't free at all. I mean in a pinch, HS on CD, I have to move and someone is getting their butt blasted I can LoTM really quick and hopefully save them. Outside of that situation I really don't think I'd be using it at all.

And then there is the whole does damage thing, our other paladin was using it as a bread and butter and he was taking 7m damage per encounter from it on average.

[Iamanalien]

It suffers from a few key problems in raid. First of all the mana cost, on long fights in raids it's a ton of extra mana to dump where just a static beacon doesn't cost anything. The other factor is that the targets chosen are random and you could get people that are at 80% HP vs 30% HP. And the last one is that by the time you Virtue, then get 1-2 casts off it's very likely that at least 1 if not 2 or more of those people have already been topped off by your other healers.

Beacon of the Lightbringer makes our Mastery a lot better, because it basically guarantees people will always be within 20 yards of either you or the tanks, while also buffing Light of Dawn by 30%, and Light of Dawn does a pretty significant amount of healing in itself.

Also: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JRPmQ7x386DZkGTv

Logs for our legendary shoulders if anyone was wondering.

Thanks for the response man. That is what I thought, but I wanted to hear from another person. I appreciate the detailed response. I cannot help to wonder why some people on the WoW forums seem to think this talent is awesome for raids though. It is what it is I guess. Thanks again.

[Hawg]

So my thoughts from last night. We just went normal (downed 8 bosses before raid time) and the other healers were a shaman (ilvl 850) and Shadow Priest (ilvl 848), my ilvl is only 832 (was on vacation for 12 days since launch, so am behind).

At first I tried my old methods and let my beacon keep the tank up except for periods of heavy damage (when they would also get direct heals) and my direct heals mainly went to raid members. This resulted in suboptimal performance (was typically lowest of the three healers on healing done and highest on overheal). So we agreed that I would focus on tanks and only heal raid members when tanks were not in need (I did still use LoD and holy prisim for raid healing). This resulted in better attempts and on most fights put me at the top of the meters for healing and bottom for overhealing.

In retrospect I probably should have swapped Beacon of the Lightbringer for Beacon of Faith and just stand with melee. But in general I thought our spec feels pretty good. I think we just have to not fight the stereotype that we are 85% tank healers and 15% raid healers.

On the fights where I had some downtime and also tried to dps, I generally didn't find the extra dps to be worth the potential loss of concentration (particularly given that the fights were all new to me, maybe this will change once the mechanics are familiar?).

I forgot to keybind LotM and frankly think it may not get bound at all, am I missing out?

I'm considering dumping rule of law for unbreakable spirit. I didn't get much use from rule of law and there were several times where the reduced cd's from unbreakable spirit would have been useful.

My 2c.

[TheRabidDeer]

This fallacy that LotM is free needs to disappear. It's not free, we judge spells in Healing done per mana spent, and in this regard LotM is one of the most costly spells for the healing done.

For example, Flash of Light (out least mana-efficient spell) is the same mana efficiency for amount of healing as Light of the Martyr, and this is before you even include Beacon transfer.

It CAN be free, depending on the scenario and fight. If you have hots on you that will otherwise overheal you can throw out an LotM instead of another heal.

[Hawg]

I think he means free in terms of mana cost, not hp cost. LotM cost 7.5% of base mana, so it is not free.

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Actually, I guess if you took Fervent Martyr then LotM would be mana free after two casts of either HL or FoL on your Beacon target. But to get Fervent Martyr you'd have to forego sanctified wrath and judgment of the light, a hell of a price to pay for a free spell that also damages you and does not pass through your Beacon.

[Gilthresa]

It CAN be free, depending on the scenario and fight. If you have hots on you that will otherwise overheal you can throw out an LotM instead of another heal.

That still doesn't make it free.

[EternalBany]

Both Icy veins and Wowhead now show holy paladin stats to be int>crit>versatility>mastery
Was not always so, icy veins had mastery before versatility at one point.

Still, why do i still see some good holy paladins going for crit>mastery>versatility? surely not all dungeon and specially raid fights have people bunched up, on the contrary really.

Also askmrRobot shows something even stranger, Intellect > Mastery > Critical Strike > Versatility.

So which one is it ?!... i have geared crit mastery but now am considering crit versatility cause i dont like grouping up, its troublesome and unnecessarily hard

[Deleted]

I can't find anything about best in slot Holy relics, is it the Shock Treatment relic from Nythendra or the Second Sunrise from Il'gynoth ?? 25% on LoD is pretty powerful if you have 3/3 in trait, and consider that on most fights you stand somewhat stacked and a lot of raid damage i can see it edges over the holy shock one.

The obvious choice for Life relic is the one from Cenarius - flat out more healing on your HL/FoL.