Tulsa Polic Shoot Unarmed Black Man with Hands Up.

[Taneras]

This wasn't even on the call they were heading towards. If you have a helicopter, 3 other police officers behind you, and one man with his hands up, and you still fire, then yeah you have deep seeded fear of a black man, and guess what caused there to be an irrational fear of scary black men?

You should probably educate yourself as to why a helicopter and 5 or 6 police cars arrived at the scene. Hint: It wasn't because there was a black guy walking around.

[cam5778]

From what I saw, the guy looked like he was walking away back to his vehicle and it could definitely be perceived as if he was grabbing something. He had PCP in his car and I know it isn't confirmed yet or not if he was high, but it would definitely trigger to me he might of been high or on something if he left his vehicle in the middle of the road. People need to understand that cops cannot take risk or chance. Obviously, after the fact, we know he didn't possess any real threat. To me, a cop shouldn't have to take that risk. If people obey and complied with cops and didn't give them any shit nor do anything that might be perceived as threatening, then this wouldn't of happened.

I'm white, but I have been only pulled over once so far and the police officer 100% stepped over bounds. My brother picked me up from college at 11 pm on a Friday night and we drove to his college. A cop followed us for over an hour on the highway waiting for the driver to make a mistake. He finally pulled us over, even though we did nothing wrong, and when asked why, he stated "because I'm a nosey guy." It was a pretty messed up scenario, he searched the trunk even though we said no to consenting to a search. They padded all four of us down and moved us away from the car while two cops had their firearms pointed at us. We just stood there, complied, and waited with our hands up facing away from the cops. When you're in that situation, you do exactly what they tell you, no matter how much the cop is stepping over bounds. In the aftermath, none of us drank, none of us did drugs or had any drugs, and we were let go on our way. I could easily imagine if any of us walked over to the car at this point, something would of happened. But none of us did, we stood where the cops told us and did as told. I don't feel sorry for this guy, because under no circumstances, would a cop tell this man to walk towards his vehicle.

[Daelak]

You should probably educate yourself as to why a helicopter and 5 or 6 police cars arrived at the scene. Hint: It wasn't because there was a black guy walking around.

It was because there was another crime in progress, yet a black man outside of a car was more of a priority.

[Taneras]

It was because there was another crime in progress, yet a black man outside of a car was more of a priority.

Negative.

It was because of two 911 calls reporting someone running from a vehicle screaming that it's about to blow up. Calls like that get reactions like that, black men walking around don't get reactions like that. At least not on this planet.

[Daelak]

Negative.

It was because of two 911 calls reporting someone running from a vehicle screaming that it's about to blow up. Calls like that get reactions like that, black men walking around don't get reactions like that. At least not on this planet.

Wrong, the helicopter and the 4 police officers were heading to a different call. They came upon this one and decided to end a person's life because "he looks like a bad dude".

[Shibito]

Why is the clear race baiters not banned on this forum? They are just as crazy as some of the other characters that inhabit this forum. Noone is defending the cops on this one, one can discuss it without beeing called a racist pig lover i would hope.

[Taneras]

Wrong, the helicopter and the 4 police officers were heading to a different call. They came upon this one and decided to end a person's life because "he looks like a bad dude".

The different call was a domestic disturbance call, so no, 5+ cop cars and a helicopter weren't all headed there.

Two 911 calls brought officers to the scene about 7:30 p.m. Friday.
The first came from a woman who said an abandoned vehicle was blocking the street and a man was running away, warning that it was going to blow up.
"Somebody left their vehicle running in the middle of the street with their doors wide open," the caller said. "The doors are open, the vehicle is still running. It's an SUV. It's in the middle of the street, it's blocking traffic."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/us/okl...ing/index.html

That's why so many police responded the way they did, not because some black guy was walking around his own SUV. Again, maybe on some other distant planet that's how police react, but not on this one.

[petej0]

If you think he would of been shot and killed when 4 police officers were there if he was white then you are deluding yourself.

Why not, this guy was
http://www.laweekly.com/news/an-unar...-rally-7216759
so did this guy
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7274/c...n-hank-berrien

and many more

[Gib Lover]

Why is the clear race baiters not banned on this forum? They are just as crazy as some of the other characters that inhabit this forum. Noone is defending the cops on this one, one can discuss it without beeing called a racist pig lover i would hope.

Please don't post about bans or moderation!!

[Auxora]

One problem I see is that there is a disconnect with police staffing in poor and high crime/drug/gang cities. Those cities often have a lower tax base, and so the city has less money. Ironically, then that means they have to pay police far less than many other cities. In one city about 15 mins from me that's known for crime/gangs/drugs, they are always hiring police, even without a law enforcement degree, starting at only around $20k/yr. $20k/yr is pretty much below poverty level, to put your life on the line every day. So what happens is that beginning police often start there to get some experience even though they are underpaid, but they leave asap once they do a year or two and build up their resumes, to go to other lower crime middle class areas where they start in the $30k/yr range. So you end up in some poorer areas, that actually need more and better police, with beginning and unhappy, stressed out, undertrained, and underpaid police. It's not a good combination and is part of the problem that leads to these terrible events, where they really need the best trained and paid police. It's like if you gave a beginning doctor in med school a complex heart surgery to do, they might be able to get by for a while but things generally are not going to go welll. Most good cops with a law enforcement degree would want *more* pay to work in a tough area, not less.

I'm not saying that was the case necessarily in this shooting in Tulsa, but I definitely think in a lot of these cases it has been (Ferguson for one). In these areas with underpaid and undertrained police, most of the ones that stay are either brand new, or are staying there because they aren't good cops because they are either crooked or on a power/racist trip and couldn't get on elsewhere. Definitely weeding out the bad cops is the key since most of them are good, and I think this area/pay/training disconnect is a big part of the cause of a lot of the bad ones.

[petej0]

One problem I see is that there is a disconnect with police staffing in poor and high crime/drug/gang cities. Those cities often have a lower tax base, and so the city has less money. Ironically, then that means they have to pay police far less than many other cities. In one city about 15 mins from me that's known for crime/gangs/drugs, they are always hiring police, even without a law enforcement degree, starting at only around $20k/yr. $20k/yr is pretty much below poverty level, to put your life on the line every day. So what happens is that beginning police often start there to get some experience even though they are underpaid, but they leave asap once they do a year or two and build up their resumes, to go to other lower crime middle class areas where they start in the $30k/yr range. So you end up in some poorer areas, that actually need more and better police, with beginning and unhappy, stressed out, undertrained, and underpaid police. It's not a good combination and is part of the problem that leads to these terrible events, where they really need the best trained and paid police. It's like if you gave a beginning doctor in med school a complex heart surgery to do, they might be able to get by for a while but things generally are not going to go welll. Most good cops with a law enforcement degree would want *more* pay to work in a tough area, not less.

I'm not saying that was the case necessarily in this shooting in Tulsa, but I definitely think in a lot of these cases it has been (Ferguson for one). In these areas with underpaid and undertrained police, most of the ones that stay are either brand new, or are staying there because they aren't good cops because they are either crooked or on a power/racist trip and couldn't get on elsewhere. Definitely weeding out the bad cops is the key since most of them are good, and I think this area/pay/training disconnect is a big part of the cause of a lot of the bad ones.

I am not going to disagree. I think that has something to do with it, but so does lowering standards. Many cities and even states (troopers) have lowered their standards so they could get more black/women officers to join/pass tests.

I think these incidents we are seeing is a combination of factors, from training, stress, standards etc...but one thing that isnt helping the cause is people not cooperating.

Lets also not forget that these shootings are the exception, many many police encounters occur and go off without any issue every day.

[Green Mountain Boys]

There is dashcam footage and helicopter footage of the incident. Even the chopper pilot said to use a taser but the cop doesn't. The cop that pulled the trigger is most likely going in for murder. It was in response to a broken down vehicle, nothing else. My question is, why did they need 4 cop cars for an "abandoned vehicle" call?

Warning Graphic in the videos.
http://thegrio.com/2016/09/19/video-...-tulsa-police/

Just going to post the link so people don't watch it if they don't want to.

He was called in from another person, saying that he was running from his car. When police got him to his car, he was seen reaching for something in his car from the window. Even though there was no gun on him or in the car, in that moment is looked like there was. This is not a case of driving while black. This is a case of not doing what the police tell you to do and acting suspicious. But I agree, should've tased.

But people will jump the gun and there will be riots.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/ter...-counterpoint/

[Taneras]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/ter...-counterpoint/

Just because your hands are up doesn't mean you're not disobeying commands. If the police told him to stop and get on the ground, and he held his hands up and walked to his SUV, he's disobeying police commands.

I do agree though, the window being up or down will likely determine how this case goes.

[xindralol]

hmm can't really see on the videos what the suspect did when it was shot ...

does look very suspicious though why didn't they handcuff it first

[ParanoiD84]

They did find a gun inside the vehicle, pcp and guns is not the best kind of mix.

[Masark]

Lets also not forget that these shootings are the exception, many many police encounters occur and go off without any issue every day.

So are regular murders. Many many encounters between people go off without any issue every day.

[petej0]

So are regular murders. Many many encounters between people go off without any issue every day.

Yeah...ok. You got me there...oh boy...

[the game]

So are regular murders. Many many encounters between people go off without any issue every day.

I mean how does one argue with logic like this.

[Masark]

I mean how does one argue with logic like this.

What? It's the exact same argument Pete is making.

[Daelak]

The different call was a domestic disturbance call, so no, 5+ cop cars and a helicopter weren't all headed there.



http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/us/okl...ing/index.html

That's why so many police responded the way they did, not because some black guy was walking around his own SUV. Again, maybe on some other distant planet that's how police react, but not on this one.

Right, they ordered a helicopter out for an abandoned vehicle. They used excessive force when they didn't properly know how to execute their force. All of the police officers involved should be fired and the one who shot the unarmed man should be charged with murder.

Right, the first officer was already jacked up on a domestic disturbance call, gets pissed off when the guy who complied with her to keep his hands out of his pockets walks towards his vehicle and she fires because scary black men will always have a weapon in the vehicle he just abandoned.

- - - Updated - - -

Why not, this guy was
http://www.laweekly.com/news/an-unar...-rally-7216759
so did this guy
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7274/c...n-hank-berrien

and many more

Good and they are being protested against because the protocol and general attitude of police is woefully untrained, couple that with the already stigma black men have in this country and you have grown men and women police officers scared shitless because of it.

- - - Updated - - -

He was called in from another person, saying that he was running from his car. When police got him to his car, he was seen reaching for something in his car from the window. Even though there was no gun on him or in the car, in that moment is looked like there was. This is not a case of driving while black. This is a case of not doing what the police tell you to do and acting suspicious. But I agree, should've tased.

But people will jump the gun and there will be riots.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/ter...-counterpoint/

There should be riots, and there should be police officers fired and comprehensive reform needs to come from the federal government to properly train police officers, none of this idiotic 4th grade responses and observations "hes a bad dude" when confronting a civilian who has done nothing wrong.