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  1. #981
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    Totem can you explain how Haste does increase HPM, I'm a little confused on that. Unless you're talking about SW: P increasing HPM passively by more ticks.
    SW:P, Mindbender, PW:S cooldown (which is just more efficient than other options, so being more available = more HPM so you don't have to use spells like Plea and Shadow Mend), Power of the Dark Side proc chance. Those are the "obvious" ones.

    Less obvious is Atonement duration, which is always static. If you apply your Atonements faster, that is more subsequent SWP ticks, Mindbender hits, Penance hits, Smite hits, etc. that apply to those Atonements instead of them falling off. This is actually the main reason why haste is not detrimental to HPM and in fact doesn't really cost any more mana than having no haste.

    The hit to haste for using Shadow Mend is largely due to devaluing the former by a lot. It still benefits from fitting more actions into each Atonement, but with a heavily diminished number of Atonements and using SM for its healing value instead of Atonement value, better SWP/Mindbender/more PWS don't really mean anything.

  2. #982
    Ah ok thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I forgot that haste interacts with PW:S CD for disc, it's ridiculous as shadow to have a perma B&S at some points.

  3. #983
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    It's like people don't even read the guide or the things linked at the bottom of it. This is just utter nonsense.
    I read the guide. I do not disagree with the guide on its theory crafting behind the ideal number of Atonement. My issue is with how we are able to apply Atonement. Unless you're willing to burn Rapture to get as many Atonement up as you can within 8 seconds, you're going to be spending several seconds doing no DPS and no meaningful direct healing (Plea and Power Word: Radiance heal for very little).

    This is my problem with theory crafting. Sure... 5-6 Atonement is going to make your HPS look fantastic. But if you're in a situation where you need 5-6 up do you have enough ramp up time to get your Atonements prepared? Probably not.

  4. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by isuridedes View Post
    I read the guide. I do not disagree with the guide on its theory crafting behind the ideal number of Atonement. My issue is with how we are able to apply Atonement. Unless you're willing to burn Rapture to get as many Atonement up as you can within 8 seconds, you're going to be spending several seconds doing no DPS and no meaningful direct healing (Plea and Power Word: Radiance heal for very little).

    This is my problem with theory crafting. Sure... 5-6 Atonement is going to make your HPS look fantastic. But if you're in a situation where you need 5-6 up do you have enough ramp up time to get your Atonements prepared? Probably not.
    ..what?

    Rapture is for applying a mass of atonements and prociding meaningful direct healing. You should be using it as often as possible.

    As for getting 5-6 atonements out, that's just PW: S plea x4 and PW: S again. That's plenty of time before a mechanic happens as long as you're watching your timers which is essential to playing disc well.

  5. #985
    Rapture is a 2-minute cooldown. That's not terrible but it does create a situation where you might need to decide between Rapture for the fastest route vs. the PW:S/Plea rotation. The latter is still going to take (as I have said before) around 6 or more seconds of ramp-up before you're even ready to start dealing with whatever damage is incoming to warrant all that Atonement setup in the first place.

    That's what I dislike about the state of Discipline right now... in order to prepare for a level of healing that is baseline to most other healing classes, I have to burn a cooldown or begin prepping myself 6+ seconds before. It makes the class a little more niche than I'd like, and it feels like a lot of that could be alleviated by simply providing another route for mass-Atonement, even if that route is also on another cooldown (maybe an instant cast 45s cooldown that places Atonement on 3-4 players?)

    Maybe I'm just being greedy though... the last time Discipline felt this imbalanced was at the beginning of Cataclysm.

  6. #986
    Quote Originally Posted by isuridedes View Post
    That's what I dislike about the state of Discipline right now... in order to prepare for a level of healing that is baseline to most other healing classes, I have to burn a cooldown or begin prepping myself 6+ seconds before.
    ...Did you play Discipline at any point in the last 5 or 6 years? Why are you playing this spec if you don't like predictive healing...?

  7. #987
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    ...Did you play Discipline at any point in the last 5 or 6 years? Why are you playing this spec if you don't like predictive healing...?
    What is the point of commentary like this? It's just an ad hominem because you disagree with my own arguments. But to address your ad hominem, with the exception of a few months during Cataclysm I have played Discipline exclusively since Vanilla. While the class has seen numerous changes throughout the various expansions we've always had a focus on mitigation, with varying abilities to directly heal (including via AoE).

    Legion is the first expansion where our direct heals have been so severely reduced. That in itself is not so terrible, but our ability to mitigate damage has also been reduced via the addition of a cooldown to PW:S and the removal of Divine Aegis.

    We are no longer a damage mitigation class - we are Fist Weavers. Our shields, once the core of the class, are now merely an accessory for Atonement. It's a pretty decisive shift on the part of Blizzard, so I'm not surprised to see Discipline Priests having difficulty making the adjustment, or finding the overall class change to be somewhat unappealing. We lack any proper AoE healing spell. We lack a filler spell like 'Heal' or 'Renew'. In fact... if you do not spec to allow Penance to heal friendly targets, your only direct heal of any reasonable amount is Shadow Mend. Shadow Mend is a great spell, but as the sole direct-heal in our toolkit it is inadequate.

    So our new focus is healing via Atonement. That's GREAT! I loved Atonement all throughout Mists of Pandaria as well as Warlords of Draenor so to me... this is exciting. I also find the shift in how Atonement is applied to be rather ingenious to making us a more active class, instead of just passively sitting around spamming damage spells and hoping X player gets Y heal.

    But the end result? Not so much. Atonement is a mini-game of watching your timers re-applying and making sure you've got it on all the people who might possibly need it. All this while also functioning as DPS. Your ability to handle points of spiking damage is dependent entirely on your ability to prepare well in advance... 6+ seconds if you want to get up the most efficient number of Atonements.

    Mind you... a Holy Priest can heal just as many players just as effectively. You lose the DPS, but you gain a wider array of healing utilities. Assuming two players are equally skilled and equally geared the choice between bringing a Holy Priest vs. Discipline seems clear: Holy can handle more scenarios with less ramp-up time.

    It's the very opposite of "Bring the Player; not the class"

  8. #988
    I don't understand. Are you saying that knowing when abilities would happen and throwing out 10+ PW:S's on the raid beforehand was not a necessary part of playing Disc in WoD, and that using Spirit Shell or PoH to blanket shields before said abilities was not necessary in MoP? They most certainly were, and this is nothing new. Why is applying an Atonement buff any different than applying a Power Word: Shield buff or a Divine Aegis buff or a Spirit Shell buff in this respect? You are still applying a buff with a 15 second duration to many people in the raid before telegraphed abilities, just as you always have.

  9. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by isuridedes View Post
    What is the point of commentary like this? It's just an ad hominem because you disagree with my own arguments. But to address your ad hominem, with the exception of a few months during Cataclysm I have played Discipline exclusively since Vanilla. While the class has seen numerous changes throughout the various expansions we've always had a focus on mitigation, with varying abilities to directly heal (including via AoE).

    Legion is the first expansion where our direct heals have been so severely reduced. That in itself is not so terrible, but our ability to mitigate damage has also been reduced via the addition of a cooldown to PW:S and the removal of Divine Aegis.

    We are no longer a damage mitigation class - we are Fist Weavers. Our shields, once the core of the class, are now merely an accessory for Atonement. It's a pretty decisive shift on the part of Blizzard, so I'm not surprised to see Discipline Priests having difficulty making the adjustment, or finding the overall class change to be somewhat unappealing. We lack any proper AoE healing spell. We lack a filler spell like 'Heal' or 'Renew'. In fact... if you do not spec to allow Penance to heal friendly targets, your only direct heal of any reasonable amount is Shadow Mend. Shadow Mend is a great spell, but as the sole direct-heal in our toolkit it is inadequate.

    So our new focus is healing via Atonement. That's GREAT! I loved Atonement all throughout Mists of Pandaria as well as Warlords of Draenor so to me... this is exciting. I also find the shift in how Atonement is applied to be rather ingenious to making us a more active class, instead of just passively sitting around spamming damage spells and hoping X player gets Y heal.

    But the end result? Not so much. Atonement is a mini-game of watching your timers re-applying and making sure you've got it on all the people who might possibly need it. All this while also functioning as DPS. Your ability to handle points of spiking damage is dependent entirely on your ability to prepare well in advance... 6+ seconds if you want to get up the most efficient number of Atonements.

    Mind you... a Holy Priest can heal just as many players just as effectively. You lose the DPS, but you gain a wider array of healing utilities. Assuming two players are equally skilled and equally geared the choice between bringing a Holy Priest vs. Discipline seems clear: Holy can handle more scenarios with less ramp-up time.

    It's the very opposite of "Bring the Player; not the class"
    Healed as Disc from Wrath to now, skipping most of WoD after Highmaul. How is this any different? Big damage was answered with a lot of prep in the form of absorbs. Now we just heal bars back up with the rest of the healers instead of padding the effective health of the raid. Hell Atonement even lasts baseline the same duration PW:S does, I'm seeing myself do a lot of the same things I did in MoP and I have found that deep level of proactive play has always been there for Disc and still is. I disagree that Total's statement is an ad hominem, disc has been this way in some fashion since I started in Wrath, it now just takes on the form of actual healing and not absorbs. The result is just very bursty, which is makes sense given that PW:S spam was basically frontloading a big burst of HPS before a mechanic.

  10. #990
    Knowing when an ability is going to happen is essential regardless of what class or role you play... I'm not even sure how you're coming to that interpretation but please, set it aside as something so egregious as to be laughable.

    You're also treating Atonement and Damage Mitigation as though they are a 1:1 trade-off. They are not. Consider a scenario in which 5 players are about to take significant damage. Before Legion:

    • Spam Power Word: Shield on 5 players.
    • Damage is mitigated but not eliminated.
    • Follow up with Prayer of Healing (or Halo, or Cascade, or Divine Star) as needed.


    In Legion:

    • Cast Power Word: Shield on player 1. Cast Plea on players 2 - 4. Cast Power Word: Shield on Player 5. Alternatively, Rapture + PW:S.
    • Players are now prepared to receive Atonement healing.
    • Damage is not mitigated at all (with the exception of players who might still have PW:S active). Players take whatever damage was incoming.
    • Return to DPSing boss to heal up players.
    • Follow up with Shadow Mend (or Halo, or Divine Star) as needed. I suppose you could use Power Word: Radiance... but only if you're expecting another need for mass Atonement.


    In the same period of time that you used to mitigate damage, you are now merely preparing to recover from said damage. So I guess the hope is either (a) your Atonement is enough to top the players off or (b) your other healers are covering that and of course (c) the spike is over and you actually have time for (a) or (b) to occur. Worse... the time it took you to ramp up your Atonements was time you weren't DPSing. So you need to re-apply your DoT and begin DPSing the boss again. If you were healing a player separate from the group you just spammed Atonement on you need to make sure they are in a good place or work on getting them up.

    Meanwhile yes - Holy has to deal with players taking the damage too... but they can respond much faster. Toss down a ground heal, spam Renew on some players. They can pull out Serenity for a quick heal, rely on Prayer of Healing, let Prayer of Mending bounce around a bit, etc. Hell in a real pinch they can use Divine Hymn and just go balls-out with healing.

    And that's the point of Holy. They are the healing powerhouse. But the gap in response time between Discipline and Holy right now? It is significant enough that even Discipline players who like the class right now should be going "Yeah, this really could use another once over."

  11. #991
    Okay so about that Shadow Mend as the only Atonement applicator thing: it's being misrepresented on WCL. The damage taken from the Shadow Mend dot is not reflected in total healing done.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=6

    There is the healing breakdown from the highest HPS recorded of any healer on heroic Dragons

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=186439

    But Shadow Mend also dealt 8.4 million damage that is not subtracted from the healing done, meaning there was only actually 86 million net healing done, or ~91% of the healing down. It's not a massive difference and there was still quite a lot of healing done, but the actual numbers aren't even quite as good as they appear.

    Also, incidentally, if we're judging by highest HPS, I actually did ~8% higher net healing than that log did on that fight, so yeah, take that video with a grain of salt.

    ___

    And I'm not going to argue with the ridiculous notion that Disc's toolkit somehow must definitely 100% guaranteed do less healing than other healers. I could go point by point for the next few days counting exactly why each one is wrong, but I have a lot of experience and evidence to the contrary, and if you think it's bad then just don't play the spec. That's what everyone else is doing.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2016-09-21 at 08:14 PM.

  12. #992
    Quote Originally Posted by isuridedes View Post
    What is the point of commentary like this? It's just an ad hominem because you disagree with my own arguments. But to address your ad hominem, with the exception of a few months during Cataclysm I have played Discipline exclusively since Vanilla. While the class has seen numerous changes throughout the various expansions we've always had a focus on mitigation, with varying abilities to directly heal (including via AoE).
    The point of that was asking if you've actually been playing disc correctly.

    Disc has been a predictive healer for years. If you've been playing disc reactively, you've been playing it wrong unfortunately.
    Legion is the first expansion where our direct heals have been so severely reduced. That in itself is not so terrible, but our ability to mitigate damage has also been reduced via the addition of a cooldown to PW:S and the removal of Divine Aegis.
    You mean absorbs? They were overpowered, that was universally agreed across the board. In MoP Spirit Shell + DA from atonement healing was stupidly OP. In WotLK + WoD Bubble spam was also OP. In those 3 expansions (didn't play disc during cata so can't speak to it) you could play reactively and still preform decently, now you can't.
    We are no longer a damage mitigation class - we are Fist Weavers. Our shields, once the core of the class, are now merely an accessory for Atonement. It's a pretty decisive shift on the part of Blizzard, so I'm not surprised to see Discipline Priests having difficulty making the adjustment, or finding the overall class change to be somewhat unappealing. We lack any proper AoE healing spell. We lack a filler spell like 'Heal' or 'Renew'. In fact... if you do not spec to allow Penance to heal friendly targets, your only direct heal of any reasonable amount is Shadow Mend. Shadow Mend is a great spell, but as the sole direct-heal in our toolkit it is inadequate.
    Blizzard stated that when the new disc was unveiled. It's a difficult class to play and focuses on healing through damage. We don't lack proper AoE healing (we have a talent for it that's just terrible if you want to be reactively healing), you just have to prep for it, which is the entire core of how to play disc.

    Smite is our filler spell and if you're speccing into casting penance on friendlies instead of an extra tick your gimping your healing.

    Shadowmend is our oshit heal when you need the healing now, in a raid setting you'll most likely only use this on a tank or someone that was soaking an ability like black hole and needs to be topped off quickly. The damage debuff it applies is negligible as your atonement healing + other healer hots will cover it just fine.
    So our new focus is healing via Atonement. That's GREAT! I loved Atonement all throughout Mists of Pandaria as well as Warlords of Draenor so to me... this is exciting. I also find the shift in how Atonement is applied to be rather ingenious to making us a more active class, instead of just passively sitting around spamming damage spells and hoping X player gets Y heal.
    Agreed, this is what makes me really love the new disc.
    But the end result? Not so much. Atonement is a mini-game of watching your timers re-applying and making sure you've got it on all the people who might possibly need it. All this while also functioning as DPS. Your ability to handle points of spiking damage is dependent entirely on your ability to prepare well in advance... 6+ seconds if you want to get up the most efficient number of Atonements.
    This is what will separate good discs from bad discs, it's suppose to be difficult as that is the intent of the design.
    Mind you... a Holy Priest can heal just as many players just as effectively. You lose the DPS, but you gain a wider array of healing utilities. Assuming two players are equally skilled and equally geared the choice between bringing a Holy Priest vs. Discipline seems clear: Holy can handle more scenarios with less ramp-up time.
    It sounds like you should play holy then if you prefer to reactively heal instead of proactively heal.

    I just don't understand your comments about atonement. You're happy that you have to apply it and it's not just smite spam anymore, yet your upset that you have to apply it to do AoE healing?

  13. #993
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    This is what will separate good discs from bad discs, it's suppose to be difficult as that is the intent of the design.

    At the moment I am specced Holy (Though I solo as Disc since it has such beastly survivability) because I admit... I'm not comfortable with the current state of Discipline. I made the same decision in Cataclysm when Blizzard made dramatic alterations to the class.


    I agree too that the ability to manage your Atonement is going to be a defining characteristic between a "Great" player and an okay one... but in some ways that poses a problem. It's going to depend on where the average Discipline Priest falls. If the average isn't "Great" this class is going to be ignored in favor of Holy Priests or any other.


    Totaltotemic posted some great logs - and they really are fantastic. But they are his/her performance. We can't tell yet if that's going to be the average Discipline Priest experience, or if that's an outlier who is going to buck the trend of "Disc Priests can't keep up" (which was the song sung during Cataclysm until Blizzard reviewed the spec).


    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    I just don't understand your comments about atonement. You're happy that you have to apply it and it's not just smite spam anymore, yet your upset that you have to apply it to do AoE healing?
    I like the concept of Atonement. I think it could use a little refinement. With a 15-second duration trying to keep it active on 5+ players simultaneously turns my healing bars into a mini-game which... isn't that fun. Shadow Priests were in a similar predicament with SW:P awhile ago, and even Blizzard admitted that a heavy focus on DoT management took away from enjoyment. I think Blizzard could probably tweak that duration a bit and find a balance that provides Disc a little less Atonement-whack-a-mole and a bit more time to focus on actually playing the game instead of the timers.

    Similarly, I'd love an "Oh Shit!" that provides a more immediate mass Atonement. That one's a bit greedy and it would take some testing to figure out what the right number of Atonements are for the mana / casting time - but I think it would be a great replacement for an AoE healing spell. Right now we have Power Word: Radiance which is, frankly, too long of a casting time and too expensive to really rely on.

    Something more like Holy Word: Sanctify (5% Base Mana, 1m cooldown) might not be a bad template to look at for a spell like that. Basically something that helps reduce the time between when we're merely prepping for the damage vs. when we are providing the necessary healing to recoup. As I've said before, Holy's response time is significantly better in that regard as their toolkit provides them a more flexible path to respond (allowing them to be slower in their prep). Disc is a little too unforgiving in that regard.

  14. #994
    Quote Originally Posted by isuridedes View Post
    I agree too that the ability to manage your Atonement is going to be a defining characteristic between a "Great" player and an okay one... but in some ways that poses a problem. It's going to depend on where the average Discipline Priest falls. If the average isn't "Great" this class is going to be ignored in favor of Holy Priests or any other.
    That unfortunately is going to happen and nothing can be done about it. Disc will now be on the flip side that holy has been, except that disc is perfectly viable, but will be tarnished by people don't know how to play the spec.
    I like the concept of Atonement. I think it could use a little refinement. With a 15-second duration trying to keep it active on 5+ players simultaneously turns my healing bars into a mini-game which... isn't that fun. Shadow Priests were in a similar predicament with SW:P awhile ago, and even Blizzard admitted that a heavy focus on DoT management took away from enjoyment. I think Blizzard could probably tweak that duration a bit and find a balance that provides Disc a little less Atonement-whack-a-mole and a bit more time to focus on actually playing the game instead of the timers.
    There's a talent that extends atonement by 2 seconds, not much but it's something that may interest you.

    You're also looking at disc with the eyes of a holy priest who constantly can keep hots (atonements) rolling on a lot of people. Disc revolves around burst healing cycles, now more so than ever.
    Similarly, I'd love an "Oh Shit!" that provides a more immediate mass Atonement. That one's a bit greedy and it would take some testing to figure out what the right number of Atonements are for the mana / casting time - but I think it would be a great replacement for an AoE healing spell. Right now we have Power Word: Radiance which is, frankly, too long of a casting time and too expensive to really rely on.
    PW: R is to be used when you need to blanket a lot of people in the raid with atonement quickly. It has some problems on it's own, but serves it's purpose well. As for an oh shit spell that provided a lot of atonement at once, they should just tie it into barrier via a talent and be done with it. It would be situational, but would be a nice alternative imo.
    As I've said before, Holy's response time is significantly better in that regard as their toolkit provides them a more flexible path to respond (allowing them to be slower in their prep). Disc is a little too unforgiving in that regard.
    Response time = amount of time to prepare for disc. If anything, disc has a lot of time as long as you're watching timers. Hell you have a solid minute on some raid mechanics to mentally prepare yourself for.

    I honestly don't understand what's complicated about that.

  15. #995
    Contrition (the talent that increases Atonement's duration) is a joke compared to the other two options it shares a Talent Tier with. Maybe if it were 5 seconds but otherwise the benefits of Power Infusion or even Twist of Fate far (far, far, far) outweigh the benefits of Contrition. The same can be said for The Penitent (the 1st Tier talent that allows Penance to be cast as a direct heal). They are talents that exist but are so underwhelming compared to the alternatives that you might as well not even have them as an option in their current state.

    ... I would argue though; if only exceptionally talented players can play Disc. to the point that they can heal encounters with the same degree that an average/good Holy player can, Disc may be viable but it is not balanced. Again "Bring the player not the class". If an 'okay' healer of Class A can outperform a 'stellar' healer of Class B in all situations (rather than a niche encounter) then Class B needs to be reviewed to see where the issue is.

    Granted we're not there yet. We'll have to see how this first Raid Tier goes and how Disc. performs as a whole.

    So yes for now I'm Holy - but I'm keeping my Discipline Artifact within an upgrade of my Holy in the hopes that I'll be able to flip back.

  16. #996
    Contrition is terrible, I'm just saying it's an option if you really wanted to use it (I wouldn't advise it though).

    You also need to understand that fundamentally holy and disc heal differently in raids. Disc front loads with atonements and heals the damage in bursts. Holy on the other hand, can spot heal, heal clumps of people, etc etc on demand all the time. The main difference between the two is that disc will be providing more DPS with good healing at the same time, and holy can fill the gaps that are in the disc toolkit, spot healing. It's something disc is weak at unless they shadowmend the person.

    Eitherway, it's kind of moot as spot healing isn't even holy's niche as the other healers and holy will be covering down on it passively.

  17. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    Totem can you explain how Haste does increase HPM, I'm a little confused on that. Unless you're talking about SW: P increasing HPM passively by more ticks.
    That's exactly what he's talking about. Haste affects the HPM of Mindbender and SW:P/PtW and nothing else. 10% haste is 3250 rating which makes MB and SW:P tick one extra time over 12 seconds and 18 seconds respectively. Haste's affect on HPM is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    State your reasoning. Oh, I forgot, you don't have any except for the absolutely wrong statement that haste doesn't increase HPM.
    My reasoning is that HPM is important and Discs don't have the mana to support high haste. Every single log (including yours) proves this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Shadow Mend making up 30% of your healing does not scale with:

    -Stats that aren't Crit and Versatility

    -Any artifact traits whatsoever
    Wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    -Raids in which your other healers aren't bad, and your DPS don't take tons of damage from standing in random things
    So if your raid is good you don't need spot healing? But you do need raid-wide damage periods in order for your playstyle to function. Got it lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    This isn't even a new idea. It was explored months and months ago, and found that when every single other healer functions on spot healing (dunno why Flintoid says in the video that everybody else mass heals the raid.. he should probably ask people in his own guild how other healers work) and it essentially just does what a Holy Priest does, but much worse, that it's not actually very good. It's a passable way to play, but it won't hold up in Mythic and it's not like it's amazing in Heroic.
    Yea it's way worse than what holy priests do that's why he has rank #1 logs and logs in which he beats every other healing spec in the game.

    It won't hold up in mythic? But your style of play in which the top logged players in the world are using and hitting sub 20% mana after 2:30 will be viable in mythic?

    Whatever dude. I'll keep watching your stream every now and again for the entertainment value I get out of seeing other healers in your raid double your HPS and carry your poor performance on any boss that doesn't have 100% predictable damage. I'll keep chuckling at logs of rank #1 Discs that listen to your shortsighted playstyle suggestions and hit 18% mana 2 minutes into the fight and then spend the next 2/3 of the fight playing as frugally as possible and hoping the other healers in the raid can carry them. I'll laugh even harder when fight lengths range from 6-9 mins in mythic while you're still stacking haste and then spending the majority of a fight barely casting a spell becuse you don't have mana. Making good use of that haste stat rofl.

    The bolded part is for those that never quite understand why I think haste is a bad stat.

  18. #998
    Quote Originally Posted by Rife View Post
    Whatever dude. I'll keep watching your stream every now and again for the entertainment value I get out of seeing other healers in your raid double your HPS and carry your poor performance on any boss that doesn't have 100% predictable damage. I'll keep chuckling at logs of rank #1 Discs that listen to your shortsighted playstyle suggestions and hit 18% mana 2 minutes into the fight and then spend the next 2/3 of the fight playing as frugally as possible and hoping the other healers in the raid can carry them.
    There it is. Took you long enough to admit you had a personal grudge and aren't actually looking for any kind of discussion or debate. You repeatedly post the same exact things in total contradiction to reality simply because you have to exercise your emotional need to prove someone else wrong about something.

    I will not respond to you again until you prove that you actually play Disc in raids and get the good results that you think are the end-all result of this. By the way, if you want to be results-oriented, I hope your psyche can handle dealing with this contradictory piece of evidence that is in this video you are now defending so earnestly.



    Yeah, so terrible, literally no mana to do healing with.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2016-09-21 at 09:47 PM.

  19. #999
    That's enough you two, let's keep discussion civil here and not personally attack each other. Debate about healing styles and values of stats is fine, personal attacks are not.

  20. #1000
    Dreadlord Rife's Avatar
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    I've tried sparking a debate. I've shown numbers and the maths behind them, referred to logs and even tried to use your own experience to convey a point. The fact that you think of it as a personal attack is hilarious and also why debate never starts.

    The only response I ever get is some parroted reply that Haste is good and I'm wrong. No one has been able to show why Haste is good unless they ignore mana, ignore HPM and assume the fundamental style of play necessary to make Disc viable is to squeeze as many casts as possible into a few perfectly timed atonement windows while ignoring or sacrificing throughput and longevity for the rest of an encounter.

    Flint shows that another style is viable, even superior, and the response here is tantamount to stick your fingers in your ears and yelling "HASTE IS GOOD HASTE IS GOOD NOTHING IS IS VIABLE IN MYTHIC".

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I will not respond to you again until you prove that you actually play Disc in raids and get the good results.
    I'm not going to miss out on much then if your response would be anything like your response to Flints logs.
    Those logs are exactly what you're asking for and your response has been:

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    2 of the healers were absolute trash...
    but only when nobody has any clue what they are doing...
    first week of EN...
    won't hold up in Mythic...
    not like it's amazing in Heroic...
    Well I'm convinced.

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