Day1 of raid - "know the fights" required

[Fallen Angel]

I'm hiring an entry level software engineer...must have 10 years experience.

Are you going to hire the guy who's only worked at McDonalds his whole life and doesn't know a thing about the products your company makes let alone software engineering, or the software engineer who knows even a little about what your company does?

[ShiyoKozuki]

You are classic LRF hero liar... "I raided in ICC during WOTLK with 0 raid gear and 0 raid experience on my holy paladin, and in 1 month I got fully geared and killed heroic arthas 10 man." - fucking lies.




You are asking what happend with the community? People like you happened.

Pls go play your vastly difficult games LFR hero and do not poison the community here.

gj linking my fresh WOD DK when you even mentioned my paladin you piece or garbage shitposter
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ment#168:a4602

[Pantalaimon]

You are changing your argument. Are bads kicked out of progression raiding early on? Sure. But that's not a kick-train.

I'm saying kick-trains don't happen in organized guild progression raiding. PuG raiding (which is where the kick-trains occur) is set up and run by people who have already mastered the fight. The PuG leaders are looking for similar people, because they have already wiped dozens of times on this boss and now that they have mastered the fight, they aren't looking to wipe dozens more times or spend countless hours wiping while they train every PuG in the WoWverse how to down the boss.

Nobody here is talking about guild raiding. Of course in a guild you are going to know the fights on day 1 and of course guild runs will expect & tolerate wipes. This is all about pug raiding. In pug raiding when raids are new not every player's playstyle is consistent with treating a fresh raid as being arbitrary gated by youtube & ptr before being able to do it.

You are also rewording my actual experiences. I've seen plenty of players early on when raids are fresh get kicked, not because they were "bads" & not because they didn't do what they were supposed to do, but they might have been the first to die to reasons outside of their control & then get labeled as 'not knowing the fights' simply because they died, as if knowing the fights automatically equates into never dying in a raid.

[Otimus]

Not the same thing, in the slightest. Zelda's a single player experience that you adventure through, figuring out puzzles and fighting monsters etc.. at your own pace. When you join a raid in WoW people are there to kill bosses and get loot. Most players don't appreciate wiping on bosses for hours to achieve this goal. Some players have limited time to play in the week like myself, I only have 1-2 hours a night after work to get on. So when you create a group I'd say it's reasonable to want to optimize my time and create a group with other players who understand the fight so I have a chance of clearing the raid before the lockout reset.

If there's material online you can research to achieve killing the boss faster and smoother and the leader of the group requires you to read and understand it then that's fair enough. If you feel like figuring out the boss as you go and enjoy learning on the spot then feel free to make a raid with like-minded players.

Really a silly comparison to a single player game.

I do want to point out, however, that other online games that aren't MMO's that have co-op also don't experience this problem either.

It's almost entirely an MMO mentality/problem, though you do get similar attitudes with MOBAs (but not quite the same, just similar attitudes.)

I think some people here are in massive denial about being addicted to a skinner box.


Some of you people, too, seem to think WoW is the hardest game of all time, too, or something, which it isn't. It's all about organization and who you know and what they allow you to do. I mean, the game doesn't even have AI.

[Ringthane]

Single player game where only your time is wasted rather than 9-29 other people's time

Oh, come on, it's a video game, not open heart surgery.

[ShiyoKozuki]

I don't really agree that it hasn't changed.

It's changed massively.

In Classic/TBC, raid leaders always explained fights, and even doing Heroics in TBC, you discussed what you were doing and why and so on.

In WotLK this continued to a large degree - until late WotLK when it started to break down a bit.

By Cata, though, we'd seen a sea-change. People insisted others watch videos of entire dungeons to be allowed in PUGs, even kicked people from LFD for not having done so (not me, to be clear, but I've seen it happen).

Guess when they added LFD? Late WOTLK

[Ringthane]

ey OP, you cant expect to be wiping your group because you cant open the journal.

I wonder if that would still happen even after reading the journal.

Nah, that's impossible. I mean, I just read a Chilton's manual. Now I'm going to go build myself a car.

[Fallen Angel]

gj linking my fresh WOD DK you piece or garbage shitposter

Except achievements are shown for your account, not character. Your warlock couldn't have the ICC achievements without ever having stepped foot into ICC, but your achievement page shows you having them just the same. Nice try though.

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Oh, come on, it's a video game, not open heart surgery.

When did I say it was?

[Rathwirt]

Take 30 seconds to read the encounter in the dungeon journal. It will give you a brief summary for the role and then you're done. I don't see why this is such a headache for people. It takes less time than asking what to do.

[Armourboy]

Except achievements are shown for your account, not character. Your warlock couldn't have the ICC achievements without ever having stepped foot into ICC, but your achievement page shows you having them just the same. Nice try though.

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When did I say it was?

Not for individual instances, those are character based, its the reason everytime you do an old raid on a new character you get the achievement for it. The exception to that would be legacy achievements and those that are account based. Individual raids, and dungeons are character based.


As far as the topic goes, it is one reason I quit really caring for raiding. The fun part was learning and figuring it out and getting it down. Once you knew everything and could do a boss in a couple of pulls, it kind of sucked most of the fun out of it. I'm going to do some raiding with a friend in this expansion, but I'm not doing it for the raiding as much as I am just to have some fun with him and his wife.

[Fallen Angel]

gj linking my fresh WOD DK when you even mentioned my paladin you piece or garbage shitposter
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ment#168:a4602

Still no Bane of the Fallen King, which you claimed you had done.

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Not for individual instances, those are character based, its the reason everytime you do an old raid on a new character you get

Yes, you get a new achievement on a new character, but your character page will show everything you have on your account. The example that proves this is his warlock showing the achievement for 25 ICC when that character has never entered the raid. You can further prove that by going into the achievements for each character in his sig and seeing the exact same amount of achievements gained.

[Sorrior]

I don't know. Pre-Emptive research only gets you so far. There's a big difference between knowing what to expect and actually being able to execute it perfectly based on knowledge the first time you go in. There's still going to be plenty of first-hand learning of encounters to be done.

At least that's how it is for me.

This is my experience back when I raided.

I would watch a video and just not be able to perform right

But let me loose or give me a text/general overview and I did great

Also going in blinds more fun by far

[ComputerNerd]

Blizzard made the choice to publically test fights before they go live and publish the dungeon journal.

You're actively letting down your guild mates in a competitive activity if you don't at least look at the dungeon journal.

Blame Blizzard.

Keep in mind before these things existed fights were EXTREMELY buggy on live and often poorly tuned.

No, that is player choice.
They CHOOSE to behave like that.
Blizzard do not force them to.
It isn't blizzard's fault.

We have seen the state of many encounters even AFTER that testing.
Imagine the mess they would be in otherwise.
There would still be unnecessary demands.
Be it item level, certain artifact progress which people are already demanding, etc.

Players are determined to reap all the benefits of leading while doing less of it than ever.
Nobody else is to blame but them.

[Sorrior]

100% accurate, in saying that I'd still rather have private testing.

SE does it with FFXIV and their raids are pretty well balanced...actually their balance is overall better then blizzard(I still like how when one class was too of they instead buffed the others. Or how they do wait and do more precise buffs/nerfs)

[Otimus]

SE does it with FFXIV and their raids are pretty well balanced...actually their balance is overall better then blizzard(I still like how when one class was too of they instead buffed the others. Or how they do wait and do more precise buffs/nerfs)

Blizzard's idea of balance has always sucked. It's always been "This is too good? Let's make it worthless. This thing is too worthless? Let's make it the best! That's the best? Well, let's make it worthless!" Someone needs to go to Blizzard and introduce them to the concept of "happy mediums" instead of "WILD, CRAZILY SWINGING PENDULUMS!"

(Not just WoW, either, this is how they do it with everything.)

[ShiyoKozuki]

Except achievements are shown for your account, not character. Your warlock couldn't have the ICC achievements without ever having stepped foot into ICC, but your achievement page shows you having them just the same. Nice try though.

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When did I say it was?

Nah, they really aren't.
Some achievements don't work properly for some unknown reason, it also shows I haven't done HFC heroic on my DK's front page yet it has AOTC under feats of strength so??
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ement#81:15271

Anyone bringing up someones armory to a discussion is a garbage shit poster with no argument and should be BANNED.

[Deleted]

I went to a group today and all they wanted was you to not be braindead and 835+ilvl.. We got all bosses done in under 10 wipes.

You know, you can watch/read about these bosses online (wowhead, fatboss etc.) and actually show the other people you are doing something so the possible wipes are at least not you fault. Knowing the tactics doesn't mean same as "link curve".

[Fallen Angel]

Nah, my DK is missing achievements on armory like heroic archimonde yet I can ride around that mount RIGHT NOW in game.

Anyone bringing up someones armory to a discussion is a garbage shit poster with no argument and should be BANNED.

Heroic: Archimonde achievement doesn't exist. Hell, Heroic mode kill achievements haven't existed since SoO.

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Nah, they really aren't.
Some achievements don't work properly for some unknown reason, it also shows I haven't done HFC heroic on my DK's front page yet it has AOTC under feats of strength so??
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ement#81:15271

Anyone bringing up someones armory to a discussion is a garbage shit poster with no argument and should be BANNED.

Yeah, still no.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ement#81:15271

My DH could not have any of these FoS since they couldn't be created until August 2016.

If you didn't want people bringing up your raid history, maybe you should not have made claims to things you haven't done.

[Rhaide]

I don't read the last chapter of a book before starting it.

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"You're wasting my time!" lol, to do what? AFK in org? Enjoy the damn journey.

Yeah, I totally agree, and why would I learn how to drive a car before I get out on the road?? Your mentality is poison. You don't dive into a game without knowing how it works, you're not spoiling story or mystery by learning the rules of a fight, you're doing your job as a raid member.

Don't waste the time of 9-24 other people who did their homework because you want to learn by getting them all killed 35 times.

[Kyanion]

Anyone bringing up someones armory to a discussion is a garbage shit poster with no argument and should be BANNED.

You kind of ask for it by making claims of having done X and Y and then having your armory linked. So no, people using the resources provided to call you out on claims shouldn't be ban worthy.