Day1 of raid - "know the fights" required

[shonist]

I wonder if that would still happen even after reading the journal.

Nah, that's impossible. I mean, I just read a Chilton's manual. Now I'm going to go build myself a car.

Okey, you are telling me that this PUGS that requires knowing the fights they test you before letting you join?
you just need to know what to do /w rleader interrupt this, move from this, i got it"

god, you can even lie...

[Dormie]

Really? This complaint again?

[MonsieuRoberts]

The info's out there on sites like these, on Youtube, and it's in the game too. It can't kill you to simply browse through the journal, can it? Wouldn't you want to know the fights?

Besides, you're not forced to participate with people who demand that you be aware of an encounter before you begin it. You can do whatever you want, and even then, asking for someone to know what they're doing isn't unreasonable, is it?

If it were day one and people were demanding achieves or full clears, well that's unreasonable imo. Simply asking for someone to educate themselves...how can that even be scoffed at.

[Swankyy]

Here's a tip for you to start a group:

"LFM Emerald Nightmare. Must not know fights. Come unprepared."

There. Easy fix.

[Rad1um]

I saw plenty of occurences where people were kicked from flex raids in MoP when it was still new (ie not pugs expressly meant for farming) as well as runs during WoD in BRF that would suggest otherwise. It seems that you are unwilling to admit that it is quite feasible to expect to run into some progressive raiding pugs that do overuse the kick option even when their raid knows the fights and at least performs moderately. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Research isn't required unless you're in mythic for the vast majority of encounters lol. I keep saying this but posters like you keep pretending you actually need to do 'research'. I'll say it slowly this time. DBM. TELLS. YOU. EVERYTHING. TO. DO. IN. RAID. ENCOUNTERS. For most fights you can literally stick to what the addon tells you to do proactively and reactively, combined with reading/listening to group chat about specific group strats/reactions, and you will be a fine a good 90-95% of the time. Stop acting like raiding is as hard as you are trying to make it out to be.

You're stupid. Let me rely on DBM to give me a minute to realize something when I can not be a lazy ass like you and OP and actually know wtf im doing BEFORE I even step inside.

You dont raid. And if you do, you get carried.

[Bryntrollian]

What went wrong with this games community? How can we fix it?

Yeah, something is truly wrong with these lazy people in the community who just want to waste everyone's time.

[frogger237]

I love how people complain about everything becoming too causal and then reading boss fights and watching hours of shit on youtube. Back in my day to fight a boss you had to learn the fight by experiencing it or having one guy who has done it before explain it to you.

[Fyersing]

I'm quite certain this isn't the oldest one, but I've got a copy here of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Official Strategy Guide by BradyGames that was published November 23rd, 1998 -- at this point in time my sister, who is currently in her first year of collegiate education, was six months old. EDIT: I see a plethora of BradyGames guides from 1994, so they're at least 22-years old. "Things have changed", isn't really something you can say with any accuracy.

This was a N64 title, I'm sure if I dug through some old boxes I'd find some Super Nintendo guides as well. Learning about the inner- and outer-workings of a video games, before you play it or "experience" it, isn't a part of gaming that has changed; instead, people have changed.

The teachers stopped telling stupid kids to study harder.
The coaches stopped telling the fat kids they wouldn't be able to play unless they improved.
The police stopped telling lazy kids to lay off the hash.
The parents stopped telling their kids anything remotely directive towards a positive outcome.

It wasn't the games that changed, it was the players. If you find requirements to be unsettling, odds are every adult in your life from the time you were born until the time you graduated high school failed you in some way, shape or form.

I love how people complain about everything becoming too causal and then reading boss fights and watching hours of shit on youtube. Back in my day to fight a boss you had to learn the fight by experiencing it or having one guy who has done it before explain it to you.

This guy is likely in his mid-30's and is using his experience as a, well, terrible gamer to justify criticizing how games have always worked. You don't "feel out" the rules for Monopoly or Risk, you read them before you play. You don't "intuit" the way American Football or Basketball is played, you read about it or have someone explains it to you, before you play.

#badplayersbeingbadplayers, just move along.

[Ragedaug]

Nobody here is talking about guild raiding.

That's my whole point. I'm trying to delineate to show why the "they want too much" whining is ridiculous. People are whining that PuGs won't bring them in, 'cause PuGs ask for too much requirements, then go on to blast the PuGs for not being able to accept a wipe. That is because the people making PuGs are trying to farm content. The people making the PuGs have already wiped dozens of times. The people making the PuGs ran this content already with other people who were figuring it out with them and already taught folks how to master it. Now what they are trying to do is farm it. So if you haven't mastered it, you aren't who they are looking for.

So sure, they are looking for fast smooth runs, but it's not because they can't handle a wipe. It's because they've already wipes dozens more times then the whiney undergeared player ever will.

I'm trying to say, if the whiney undergeared player is looking for a raid where they can learn boss strats as they go and wipe and reset until they get it, then a PuG farm run isn't what they need to try to get in on. They need to find a low level guild who is still struggling with fights, who will take whoever they can get (often helps if you are a healer) and then you can wipe with them and learn the fights, and enjoy the content.

[Pantalaimon]

You're stupid. Let me rely on DBM to give me a minute to realize something when I can not be a lazy ass like you and OP and actually know wtf im doing BEFORE I even step inside.

You dont raid. And if you do, you get carried.

Lol dude if it takes you a minute to realize what DBM is telling you in a fight you are the one whose raid competence I question. Umadbro that an addon acts as the near perfect complement to vent & group chat in non mythic raids? Hurp durp I hear doing normal & heroic fights are hard with DBM installed.

[Ragedaug]

I love how people complain about everything becoming too causal and then reading boss fights and watching hours of shit on youtube. Back in my day to fight a boss you had to learn the fight by experiencing it or having one guy who has done it before explain it to you.

We went to Thottbot and looked up the comments for the encounter. /shrug

[ShiyoKozuki]

You're stupid. Let me rely on DBM to give me a minute to realize something when I can not be a lazy ass like you and OP and actually know wtf im doing BEFORE I even step inside.

You dont raid. And if you do, you get carried.

lol ur dum lol

[clevin]

I don't get it. You're mad that someone is asking people to do a bit of research before stepping into a raid for the first time?

Indeed, what is wrong with this lazy ass community?

Holy fuck you people are dense. You CANNOT know the fights week 1. Not really. Sure you can find some beta footage and strategies and sure , you ca look at the journals but that's not really the same as being in the fight, doing your job, getting a feel for when to blow a CD, feeling how to move, etc.

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That's my whole point. I'm trying to delineate to show why the "they want too much" whining is ridiculous. People are whining that PuGs won't bring them in, 'cause PuGs ask for too much requirements, then go on to blast the PuGs for not being able to accept a wipe. That is because the people making PuGs are trying to farm content.

YOU CANNOT FARM A RAID THAT'S JUST BEEN RELEASED.

Do you even think before typing?

[lazorexplosion]

That's my whole point. I'm trying to delineate to show why the "they want too much" whining is ridiculous. People are whining that PuGs won't bring them in, 'cause PuGs ask for too much requirements, then go on to blast the PuGs for not being able to accept a wipe. That is because the people making PuGs are trying to farm content. The people making the PuGs have already wiped dozens of times. The people making the PuGs ran this content already with other people who were figuring it out with them and already taught folks how to master it. Now what they are trying to do is farm it. So if you haven't mastered it, you aren't who they are looking for.

So sure, they are looking for fast smooth runs, but it's not because they can't handle a wipe. It's because they've already wipes dozens more times then the whiney undergeared player ever will.

I'm trying to say, if the whiney undergeared player is looking for a raid where they can learn boss strats as they go and wipe and reset until they get it, then a PuG farm run isn't what they need to try to get in on. They need to find a low level guild who is still struggling with fights, who will take whoever they can get (often helps if you are a healer) and then you can wipe with them and learn the fights, and enjoy the content.

LOL It was on day 1 of the raid do you just say whatever obviously made up bullshit pops into your head without checking if it makes any sense at all?

[clevin]

Take 30 seconds to read the encounter in the dungeon journal. It will give you a brief summary for the role and then you're done. I don't see why this is such a headache for people. It takes less time than asking what to do.

That is NOT the same as really knowing the fight. Reading != experiencing.

[frogger237]

We went to Thottbot and looked up the comments for the encounter. /shrug

I was kinda talking about pre youtube bosses not just wow, besides the dungeon guide has more info than we ever got in comments usually.

I'm quite certain this isn't the oldest one, but I've got a copy here of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Official Strategy Guide by BradyGames that was published November 23rd, 1998 -- at this point in time my sister, who is currently in her first year of collegiate education, was six months old.

This was a N64 title, I'm sure if I dug through some old boxes I'd find some Super Nintendo guides as well. Learning about the inner- and outer-workings of a video games, before you play it or "experience" it, isn't a part of gaming that has changed; instead, people have changed.

The teachers stopped telling stupid kids to study harder.
The coaches stopped telling the fat kids they wouldn't be able to play unless they improved.
The police stopped telling lazy kids to lay off the hash.
The parents stopped telling their kids anything remotely directive towards a positive outcome.

It wasn't the games that changed, it was the players. If you find requirements to be unsettling, odds are every adult in your life from the time you were born until the time you graduated high school failed you in some way, shape or form.

Are you trying to say that reading a guide to play a game is less lazy than trying to play a game yourself? Also the vast majority of people didn't purchase strategy guides and only had the info from the booklets that came with the game which typically only had the button layout and maybe a few other things.

[Heladys]

That is NOT the same as really knowing the fight. Reading != experiencing.

Is knowing the rules of the road and studying your route before you drive it useless because it isn't "experiencing" the drive?

Is driving not a consensual collective activity as well where everyone else's actions impinge upon each other's enjoyment and survival?

Are you the kind of "person" to disregard others there too?

[lazorexplosion]

Dear god can you imagine if you had to talk to other people to explain things and coordinate. It might be social, that would be terrible.

[frogger237]

This guy is likely in his mid-30's and is using his experience as a, well, terrible gamer to justify criticizing how games have always worked. You don't "feel out" the rules for Monopoly or Risk, you read them before you play. You don't "intuit" the way American Football or Basketball is played, you read about it or have someone explains it to you, before you play.

#badplayersbeingbadplayers, just move along.

I'm guessing your a kid under 20 and don't understand the difference between the rules of a game and strategy? The rules of monopoly are like you get 200$ for passing go, player turns and that shit. A strategy is how to play monopoly and try to win, for example like intentionally wiffing a roll so your next turn or two you can land on a railroad and purchase it, or purchasing one place in every set so you can trade later down the line.

[Pantalaimon]

This guy is likely in his mid-30's and is using his experience as a, well, terrible gamer to justify criticizing how games have always worked. You don't "feel out" the rules for Monopoly or Risk, you read them before you play. You don't "intuit" the way American Football or Basketball is played, you read about it or have someone explains it to you, before you play.

#badplayersbeingbadplayers, just move along.

Your comparisons are awful. Monopoly and Risk, at least in their traditional versions, are meant to only be played one way while raiding isn't. Yeah it is played one way in the most basic sense that you need to have a tank(s) hold aggro, dps deal damage, and healers heal, but there is just no single strategy when raiding that will cause failure if you deviate in any way. You have obviously never read any interviews with world first guilds otherwise you would quickly discover that *gasp* they had no youtube guides & they were the ones providing the first beta/ptr feedback after countless wipes brought about by feeling the encounters and mechanics out. Heroic/mythic raiding for new content is a mix of intuition, countless trial and error, and strategy building all in one. Pretty much all strats are formed after feeling out attempts so I see no problem in other casual and/or hardcore raiders doing the same.

#ignorantplayersoblivioustotheraidingprocessinbeta