Day1 of raid - "know the fights" required

[lazorexplosion]

You have to watch videos for everything because playing a video game is like driving a car and you have to study driving a car because if you do it wrong you'll literally kill people, just like.. PUG.. raiding.. I guess?

[c313]

I personally don't understand what is so difficult about this. Fat Boss have been making Beta videos for first tier expansion bosses since what, Cata? Maybe even before that (Idk I started late Wotlk). You could at the very least spend the time watching those videos to get a general idea wtf to do. I did, and I am 6/7 Normal from only pugging Normals with others who have watched the Fat Boss guides. And now the TL;DR guy and 2 minute tip guys are releasing their up to date guide videos. So there is no excuse to not at least know the fight now.

[Otimus]

I personally don't understand what is so difficult about this. Fat Boss have been making Beta videos for first tier expansion bosses since what, Cata? Maybe even before that (Idk I started late Wotlk). You could at the very least spend the time watching those videos to get a general idea wtf to do. I did, and I am 6/7 Normal from only pugging Normals with others who have watched the Fat Boss guides. And now the TL;DR guy and 2 minute tip guys are releasing their up to date guide videos. So there is no excuse to not at least know the fight now.

Just so you're aware, this isn't someone complaining about having to do that, it's complaining that it's a thing that exists in a game. Two very different things, which aren't really what applies to what you're arguing against.

In fact, this applies to most everyone complaining about this. You're lacking a fundamental understanding of what people are saying, or something.

[Deleted]

The way I sees it, it's a simple case of preference.

For me, reading about a fight before you go into a raid has always been the done thing. People have limited time on their hands and wiping over and over again can be frustrating.

That being said, I totally understand the mentality of wanting to feel out a fight and figure it out yourself.

For those in the latter camp I would say that doing this in a PUG is not a good idea. PUG groups are notoriously fickle and often half the raid will abandon ship after the first wipe (which is shit, I'm sure all agree.)

I've had some of the most fun in this game feeling out fights in Mythic 5 man content with my buddies on Skype so if that's what you want in a raid, I totally get you, but do it with people you know rather than strangers. You'll have a better time, the strangers will have a better time and nobody has to get shit on for the way they prefer to experience the content.

[Pantalaimon]

Zelda is not a multiplayer game where you're supposed to coordinate 20 people to kill a boss, it can take 4+ hours to kill if not most of the people in the raid knows what to do.

What is the rush to kill the boss asap? It just means you're putting yourself closer to content drought until the next raid or patch. I get that an achievement or gear has always been the standard benchmark to meet when playing this type of game, but if you are one of those players that will not be unsubbing for any long periods of time why must raiding be so rushed? Chances are very high that you'll fully clear the raid(s) throughout the life the expansion anyway, even if a kill takes 4+ hours. Is it really that fun of an experience to zerg through bosses just to have nothing to do afterward for potentially months to come?

[Otimus]

What is the rush to kill the boss asap? It just means you're putting yourself closer to content drought until the next raid or patch. I get that an achievement or gear has always been the standard benchmark to meet when playing this type of game, but if you are one of those players that will not be unsubbing for any long periods of time why must raiding be so rushed? Chances are very high that you'll fully clear the raid(s) throughout the life the expansion anyway, even if a kill takes 4+ hours. Is it really that fun of an experience to zerg through bosses just to have nothing to do afterward for potentially months to come?

My general theory is that most people don't actually like playing the game. They either like getting loot (pugs), or they like spending time with friends (guilds), but they don't actually enjoy the actual process so much as the results. That's about the only way I can explain it, because it doesn't work this way in anything else that's multiplayer.

[c313]

Just so you're aware, this isn't someone complaining about having to do that, it's complaining that it's a thing that exists in a game. Two very different things, which aren't really what applies to what you're arguing against.

In fact, this applies to most everyone complaining about this. You're lacking a fundamental understanding of what people are saying, or something.

It exists to those that want it to. As what has already been mentioned players can shape their own run and not have the requirement to do that. This is an MMO. People will play it how they will, there will be many things that players will and will not agree too. The fact that people are complaining about this though is kinda sad. But then again, that is just my opinion.

[BananaHandsB]

What went wrong with this games community? How can we fix it?

Nothing went wrong. Join a more casual guild, not as concerned with progression and you dont have to study up on the fights. Raid in a guild that wants to compete for progression, and time becomes your enemy, and you're just wasting time explaining the basics of a fight that could be learned from youtube, dungeon journal, or other guides and letting your competitors pull ahead. You're allotting more of the valuable time people commit to putting in attempts, rather than searching for information and informing people, things that don't necessarily require an entire raid of people to do at a scheduled tim0, together.

There's also the concern of making the most of the time your raid has together and valueing the time people are committing. Remember, no guild has people with identical lives and identical schedules. Many people have busy lives and they're committing this time to raid, not google. When people show up to raid and commit their valuable time, they want to make efficient use of that time that they are committing and actually accomplish something. Eliminating some of the bumbling around with the basic strats means you're wasting less of the valuable time people set aside to come together and raid, and focusing on the things that actually require the full group, ie fighting bosses, not bumbling around trying to find information, in raid, that was openly available beforehand. Long story short, WoW is a game and when people commit time to it they want to get something out of it. Waste an entire raid googling strats and your members will find a new guild very quickly that utilizes the time they set aside to come together and raid more effectively and doesn't waste time on things that could easily be ascertained beforehand.

[lazorexplosion]

It is not a waste of time to talk to your PUG about how to do a fight. It is in fact a time saver because there's almost always people who don't know the fight as well as they think they do, and there's a good chance you'll end up wiping and then having to explain the fight anyway. In addition, talking about shit with people is friendly, helpful, social and interactive.

Trying to force everyone to watch fight videos is uninteractive, unsocial and not even that helpful because you're better off talking about each boss right before each boss so everyone is on the same page with what to do fresh in their minds.

[Ragedaug]

Holy fuck you people are dense. You CANNOT know the fights week 1. Not really. Sure you can find some beta footage and strategies and sure , you ca look at the journals but that's not really the same as being in the fight, doing your job, getting a feel for when to blow a CD, feeling how to move, etc.

No one is pugging a raid that hasn't been released and not expecting to wipe either. What are you going on about?

[Argarock]

What is the rush to kill the boss asap? It just means you're putting yourself closer to content drought until the next raid or patch. I get that an achievement or gear has always been the standard benchmark to meet when playing this type of game, but if you are one of those players that will not be unsubbing for any long periods of time why must raiding be so rushed? Chances are very high that you'll fully clear the raid(s) throughout the life the expansion anyway, even if a kill takes 4+ hours. Is it really that fun of an experience to zerg through bosses just to have nothing to do afterward for potentially months to come?

There's no rush.

but dying over and over again to easy to learn mechanics is just not fun.

wiping to people not passing eye correctly on shadow-lord iskar is only ok the first couple of times.

[assman]

If you want to spend hours wiping to learn a fight, there are world first guilds you can join.

[Pantalaimon]

There's no rush.

but dying over and over again to easy to learn mechanics is just not fun.

wiping to people not passing eye correctly on shadow-lord iskar is only ok the first couple of times.

It isn't fun, but as a player you will never learn patience if you aren't in a position to develop it. Imo this is part of the complex issue of the community labeled 'instant gratification generation' of mmo players. Players shouldn't die to easy stuff, but if your individual aversion to wiping in general, or 'failing', is too great you're never going to improve. This doesn't even just apply to raiding, but also any group task in game (both pve & pvp, 5-40 man content). 'Better' players aren't ones with elitest attitudes, high ilvls, instant welfare epics/legendaries, casual or hardcore. They are players who stick with in an in-game goal longer than the person who gets frustrated and delays or outright gives up on an activity they might have otherwise enjoyed.

[Freestyle80]

its always the shitty raiders that complain

maybe git gud

[8bithamster]

OP is just another raider that expects everyone to do the work for him/her. Dies in the first AOE. Screams "OMG HOW COULD I HAVE KNOWN!" then blames the healers and ragequits from the group.

Or, translated. People you don't want raiding with you

[Deleted]

My general theory is that most people don't actually like playing the game. They either like getting loot (pugs), or they like spending time with friends (guilds), but they don't actually enjoy the actual process so much as the results. That's about the only way I can explain it, because it doesn't work this way in anything else that's multiplayer.

People do like to play the game, but people doesn't like to play with people who doesn't know even the basics that you can even read from dungeon journal... This thing exists for reason. "Oh I didnt know I have to soak this" For fucking sake its written in capital, red and underlined with 72 font in DJ...

[Elim Garak]

If everyone read/watched tactics before going in, we would've never had Leroy Jenkins. I bet most of you didn't know what really happens when you charge in there like that until Leroy showed you. Because you prefer to have a sterile on-rails experience in the game. Hence since WoD expansions are on-rails. There's even a Dungeon Journal that tells you what to do and not do.

What fun is in that? It's basically getting epics for reading. Which is a good thing as it makes people read but it's a game and it has to be played as such.
What? Do you solve puzzles by googling them too?

[Otimus]

People do like to play the game, but people doesn't like to play with people who doesn't know even the basics that you can even read from dungeon journal... This thing exists for reason. "Oh I didnt know I have to soak this" For fucking sake its written in capital, red and underlined with 72 font in DJ...

To be fair, some things actually aren't in the dungeon journal, IIRC, when people used to whine at people in LFR for dying to the invisible floor boss in that first raid of MoP, for not reading the DJ, I actually decided, out of curiosity, if it was even mentioned there (it was not.)


In any event, I'd say the dungeon journal is a hapdash response to a symptom Blizzard never expected to exist to begin with. But it is what it is. But there is a gigantic difference between using that, and expecting people to read a technical rundown or watch a video. (again, I'm not saying that people shouldn't, because, AGAIN, it is what it is, and that's the nature of the game. It's just fundamentally dumb as a concept.)

[Foj]

Zelda is not a multiplayer game where you're supposed to coordinate 20 people to kill a boss, it can take 4+ hours to kill if not most of the people in the raid knows what to do.

Just so you know, Mythic raiding isn't available yet.

[Swiftshadow]

Ok. Enough.

If you read up or watch a video on a fight, you will probably not die (not guaranteed becos, well shit happens).

If you don't, you will not necessarily die (becos depending on personal skill and reaction, you might be able to "wing" it).

Irregardless, researching a fight before doing it will likely increase success chance. Which is probably why some people are making it a requirement.

Should it be a requirement? Of course not. It sure would be nice if everyone in the raid does it though.

Think of it this way, should you always receive a verbal thanks or nod when you hold the door open for a lady? No. Doing a good deed or extending a courtesy does not entitle you to receive appreciation for it.

It sure would be nice though.