Should I raid with a guild that uses Loot Council?

[darklogrus]

Why is that so unbelievable? I have 850 bracers sitting in my bags while I'm wearing a set of 830s with Mastery, because the 830s were an upgrade. Clearly you don't understand how stat weights work...

I had a piece of gear 825 warforge to 830 and its still better then the 850 i have with the same exact stats. Not sure if thats the curse of the warforge or not though..

Back on Topic, I was in a loot council guild and it did have some circle jerking going on but not too bad. The problem was that the people who were in a strong class or just out performing based on their time outside of raiding often were dropped the mid tier because of it. There were a few times I was passed over on gear solely because I was ahead of the other player on the meters.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

-snip-

The irony of you citing bias against someones argument LOL.

[Bapestar]

LC is fine if done right, but it rarely is done right. And you witness alot of ass kissing.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

At least quote the part where I was biased if you're going to troll. I'm pretty sure I explained that my guild deliberated on using the Council system and we decided it wasn't for us. Since you're chiming in on a post that wasn't directed toward you, I feel like you just want attention and have nothing real to claim how I'm biased. The people I claimed biased were the few posting "Council is the only way to go, you're stupid if you don't use it" and "your GM is an idiot for not doing LC". That is clear bias. They aren't even willing to see another point of view. So instead of snipping my quote, let's hear what you really think. Elaborate, sir.

The whole thing. Your whole post. You obviously dislike the idea of Loot Council, and you aren't being objective at all when judging the systems for loot distribution.

LC is better, there really isn't a debate. Its just better. Many people have stated why. That people are sometimes corrupt isn't a good argument against LC.

[I Push Buttons]

I don't like loot councils.

I just don't enjoy having the decision of whether I get loot or not based on the whims of other people.

I prefer leaving the decision to RNGesus, especially with the much improved behind the scenes function of personal loot these days. I can understand not liking it back in the day, but it is a far different (and better) system now than it was previously.

[glowpipe]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

and this is also why you should never be in charge of the loot council. Letting personal crap come between you and the players actualy needing the gear.

[Sam the Wiser]

Loot council is a joke even if you're in a top end guild. The bias is real. Yes, this is coming from someone who abused the shit out of this system in MoP.

[Servasus]

Loot Councils are there to ensure the entire raid gets geared as equally and fairly as possible. Some loot councils also consider your performance. If you're parsing like shit and need to step up your game, a piece of gear might be sent to another guy instead of you because he'll actually be able to use it whereas it would be less effective given to you.

Loot councils ensure fairness and encourage raid members to all participate in the progression, rather than phoning it in until the content is on farm. I understand some loot councils are corrupt, but if you think the idea of loot council in general is "unfair" or "not right," you're probably the player than doesn't want to put in the extra effort to actually progress in raids and shouldn't be raiding in the first place.

[Elbob]

A properly run LC is designed to put the right gear on the right people. This means people get properly itemized gear for their spec sooner, core trinkets/relics can be given to specs that get the most out of them. Are there corrupt loot councils that favor long term members/officers... of course, but many of them place gear around upcoming progression fights and focus big upgrades on the people that need them the most/will be in the upcoming encounters.

Personal loot results in things like a raider getting a 5 ilvl upgrade that he can't trade vs allowing the LC to give it to the raider that could have used it as a 30+ ilvl upgrade.

Edit: if your guild is progression focused loot council will almost always have your guild in a better spot gear wise later in the tier, not just in item level but itemization as well. If all you really care for is your own toon and its gear PL is probably right for you. On a side note - if there are pugs it should always be PL for fairness reasons.

[Propainn]

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LOL. I laughed out loud, for real. I guess this guy doesn't realize that the amount of Agi/Str/Int on 850 items completely outweigh whatever small amount of Mastery he gained from a piece 20 ilevels lower. I guess HE doesn't realize stat weights. And if you're going to insult someone for the knowledge of stat weights, let's hear what class and spec you play and dissect your claim. Let's get the facts of your statement.

Pretending like favoritism doesn't exist doesn't make your claim any more valid. You act like people aren't corrupt in all levels of life, dude. The amount of "fair" Loot Council guilds I'm sure pales in comparison to the ones that aren't. Get off your high horse. You only rep it cause you're so biased to it.

Arms with a mastery weight of nearly 1.4 atm (with STR at a base 1.0). I would not gain enough STR to counter balance the almost 500 Mastery gain, along with eliminating Crit from the bracers as well.

You have failed, miserably.

[Jewsco]

Why is that so unbelievable? I have 850 bracers sitting in my bags while I'm wearing a set of 830s with Mastery, because the 830s were an upgrade. Clearly you don't understand how stat weights work...

OT: Loot council (in any half-decent guild) is by far and away the best method, so long as those on the council want to progress more than anything. The vast majority of councils care much more about progression than the ilvl of themselves or their friends. Cut the conspiracy crap.

If you knew how main stat is >>>>> than all other stats then one with 20 ilevels of main stats would be better than any secondary stat. Or do you not know that? And you not knowing that shows one of the many reasons loot councils are bad. As you come here thinkng you know all and don't even know that. Now I am suppose to believe you know anything about gear for other classes and decide who gets what based off of your knowledge? Yeah sure.

[dakalro]

I have only had a handful of issues with LC over 8 years of being in top 10-100 guild (yo-yo's over the years). And even then it was because I will sometimes turn into the snickers commercial guy )
Overall it should be reasonably fair.

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If you knew how main stat is >>>>> than all other stats then one with 20 ilevels of main stats would be better than any secondary stat. Or do you not know that? And you not knowing that shows one of the many reasons loot councils are bad. As you come here thinkng you know all and don't even know that. Now I am suppose to believe you know anything about gear for other classes and decide who gets what based off of your knowledge? Yeah sure.

Say that to demo locks where haste >>>>> int

[Kidoeng7]

Well we have been using lootcouncil in the last 3 years never heard any1 complain, our setup is simple GM, officers and 2-3 raiders (class leaders).
Loot is distributed based on biggest upgrade rank priority (trial < raider) and performance.
I cant see how a good guild can go with higher roll wins (or the cancer personal loot), based on luck one guy can get everything and the rest shit while you need to have all geared equally in order to progress

[Jewsco]

Well we have been using lootcouncil in the last 3 years never heard any1 complain, our setup is simple GM, officers and 2-3 raiders (class leaders).
Loot is distributed based on biggest upgrade rank priority (trial < raider) and performance.
I cant see how a good guild can go with higher roll wins (or the cancer personal loot), based on luck one guy can get everything and the rest shit while you need to have all geared equally in order to progress

Have you played this game at all lately? Do you know how greedy and self centered most players are nowadays?
Yes in top guilds, ones with great and fair gm's and officers and/or one someone has been in for years and everyone is known loot council works. But did you read the op at all? He will be new to the guild knows best to no one or how they are. Odds aren't great that thier loot council is fair. Might be why that guild needed to recruit a new memebers think of that? I wouldn't join a guild with loot council nowadays unless I knew someone from said guild and how they run things. Going in blind is asking for problems. Look how eke replied in this thread that if one questioned they would get no gear or kicked. Lots of players in this game like lording over others. Look how many still lost here whining others get purple gear so they can't peacock around showing off anymore. Would you trust people with that attitude to distribute loot fairly? I wouldn't.

[Deleted]

I've had a LC ever since I started raiding, back in classic. It's simply the only form of loot distribution that can help the raid as a whole, not just boosting DPS of some individuals who just come to have the highest DKP or the most luck.
A good LC cares for the whole raid, even if that means that someone doesn't get an item for three weeks straight. There just is no place for people in HC/Myth who are just concerned about their own loot (imo).

Of course, there are black sheeps everywhere. But a LC who only equips themselves will fail sooner or later. There is just no point in having 5 of 20 people at max ilvl. Won't help any

If you are worried about only your own gear in raid group, you should think of leaving immediately and only do some LFG/LFR stuff or run some normal Raids with randoms. It's the only place for beeing self-centered imo. HC/Myth - Raids are still something you just can do together.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

How is not a good argument? People playing favoritism is the reason why it fails. You're not offering anything other than "It's better, so stfu already" and you expect me to have an intelligent debate with you? I explained that it is a great system if it worked properly. You clearly didn't read my full post before you decided to develop an opinion about my stance on it. I remarked that my guild's officers discussed pros and cons, and guess what, it wasn't better for us. Assume all you want, it just further proves my point.

For Mythic world-first raiding, yeah sure, it's the best. And I never said it doesn't work flawlessly for some guilds, but to come into this thread and act like just because your guild has success with it that ALL guilds should shows foolhardiness. My debate with you is done.

Sorry, reasoning behind LC being better has been stated many times throughout this thread. YOu call people biased and yet, the only thing you say is "I don't like it."

PL is only great for people that are paranoid of people ninjaing or stealing their loot. Something that, in my experience is very very very very rare. I've been playing since 2005, and loot thieving and ninjaing is something I've rarely seen; mostly in LFD settings...

[Jewsco]

Sorry, reasoning behind LC being better has been stated many times throughout this thread. YOu call people biased and yet, the only thing you say is "I don't like it."

PL is only great for people that are paranoid of people ninjaing or stealing their loot. Something that, in my experience is very very very very rare. I've been playing since 2005, and loot thieving and ninjaing is something I've rarely seen; mostly in LFD settings...

Oh it is you again claiming loot ninjaing and stuff never or rarely happens. Move along folks he won't change his mind because he says it doesn't happen Nevermind the fact that personal loot is in the game due that very reason but it rarely happens.

[Ellianar]

If you knew how main stat is >>>>> than all other stats then one with 20 ilevels of main stats would be better than any secondary stat. Or do you not know that? And you not knowing that shows one of the many reasons loot councils are bad. As you come here thinkng you know all and don't even know that. Now I am suppose to believe you know anything about gear for other classes and decide who gets what based off of your knowledge? Yeah sure.

Oh boy I love reading ignorant people calling other on ignorance, always fun.

[ReVnX]

I guess the people that claim they didn't receive a loot they deserve because of Loot Council are the same people that keep dying twice per encounter.

[davesurfer]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

And this would be the argument agains loot council. If you make decisions based on emotion and not objectivity you are one of the people giving it a bad name.

Either they raid or don't. Loot should never be decided on how you feel about someone.