Protests in Charlotte, North Carolina

[Daelak]

Why have these numbers gotten worse since the barriers of systemic racism have been removed?

They haven't gotten worse, it's just made white segregationists and racists job to ensure blacks are excluded harder, like through drug policy, redlining, mandatory minimum sentencing, educational attainment, and access to job opportunities. What you are seeing are the most hard hit areas of intergenerational poverty deliberately created to keep millions of human beings excluded from the economic prosperity of this country for decades.

[Draco-Onis]

In reference to 100% unity, this is true. But some Presidents have been able to gather enough support from the citizens to offer a overall sense of unity. The popular ones would be indications of which those are. Teddy Roosevelt would be one. John Kennedy had a 71% approval rating at the time of his death. Eisenhower had a high approval rating also during his term. Now they get excited when Obama's approval rating hits the high 50's. :P

Approval ratings are not a good measure of unity, it's a measure of people's opinion of the President. Teddy Roosevelt put people in internment camps because of race, JFK got assassinated and was dealing with the civil rights movement, none of these things scream unity.

[McFuu]

You are using a irrational mental shortcut to wrap your head around an extremely complex series of events that occurred almost 400 years.

If you think slavery is some kind of excuse for a population to commit crimes at rates approaching 4 times higher than other races, you are beyond delusional, especially more than 100 years after the fact.

[Ghostpanther]

Ok to be clear. I'm not from your country.

I come from a very small country with a population of maybe 6-7 million. Our dollar is weaker by approx 1.2.
That being said. In my country. It is illegal to own firearms. In fact, it is extremely difficult to even obtain one illegally.

I would say, it would be rare for any of the police here to have cause to discharge their firearms to subdue criminals. Rare as in maybe once a year rare (sometimes not at all). It works. Extremely low rate of any kind of violent crimes here. Police here has no reason to fire on any suspect, because well, the probability of said suspect having a firearm is like 1%. Hence, I dare to say the police keeps their pistols holstered 99% of the time.

And no, what I asked is NOT a naive concept of self defense.

Since I'm not a US citizen, why do I care? Because it's the US. Any major event in the US has potential to affect the rest of the world, regardless of whether we want it or not. Like Trump/Hillary for eg. (and that's another can of worms).

The safest state ( per 100,000 population ) in the US is a state ( Vermont ) which has the most lax gun laws in the Union. You do not need a permit to carry a firearm ether openly or concealed.

And since this is a international forum, you certainly are entitled to your input and opinion.

[Daelak]

In reference to 100% unity, this is true. But some Presidents have been able to gather enough support from the citizens to offer a overall sense of unity. The popular ones would be indications of which those are. Teddy Roosevelt would be one. John Kennedy had a 71% approval rating at the time of his death. Eisenhower had a high approval rating also during his term. Now they get excited when Obama's approval rating hits the high 50's. :P

Guess what JFK's stance on black relations was.

[Stormdash]

is there really a need to own guns?

if no one own guns, then one wouldn't really need a gun to defend ourselves right?

Any other weapon will suffice?

At least this way it's not so "convenient" to kill someone, accidentally or not.

Naive, utter pablum. Makes sense, as long as you never might need to defend yourself from someone, y'know, stronger than you, or experienced/trained, or who has a lead pipe while you have your charm and wit. This has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, gun rights did not get this man shot, ostensibly his own Darwin worthy situational awareness and risk assessment did. If police are ordering you to disarm, you disarm immediately. If the police are acting unlawfully, your remedies are in court. On the scene, total compliance is the safest, wisest course.

[Daelak]

If you think slavery is some kind of excuse for a population to commit crimes at rates approaching 4 times higher than other races, you are beyond delusional, especially more than 100 years after the fact.

What do you think happened in your mind, civil war ended, and everyone was like oh ok AA's welcome to our country as full fledged citizens, here's a good paying job and access to participating in US democracy!

[NineSpine]

The safest state ( per 100,000 population ) in the US is a state ( Vermont ) which has the most lax gun laws in the Union. You do not need a permit to carry a firearm ether openly or concealed.

And since this is a international forum, you certainly are entitled to your input and opinion.

If the entire nation was wealthy and rural, like Vermont, you might have a point. However, it isn't, so you don't.

[satimy]

Police kill whites twice as often as blacks. The statistics don't reflect what the media and our current president are telling BLM activists and the rest of the nation. They're fanning the flames of racism and they know better. Or at least they should know better.

Police don't kill enough people to draw definitive conclusions. The racial issue is that more blacks are poor than whites per capita. Poor people have more interactions with police, and are thus more likely to get killed. Shit like stop and frisk should be hated by anyone that believes in a free society and reasonable suspicion should just cease to exist. The police and courts simply have to much power, which has turned them corrupt.

What did you expect when we shit on the bill f rights for 100 years? Things to get better?

[Deleted]

Is it because they enjoy violence?

No its because they are poor, have a culture that mocks education, glorifies violence, and very often grow up in single mother households - Which is a key indicator for anti social behavior.

[Ghostpanther]

Approval ratings are not a good measure of unity, it's a measure of people's opinion of the President. Teddy Roosevelt put people in internment camps because of race, JFK got assassinated and was dealing with the civil rights movement, none of these things scream unity.

I think you expecting Unity to be something which the whole nation ( 100% ) are in agreement. That is something which I agree is not possible. But overall unity in the nation has existed before. But it is in a very divided state now. The national polls show that. And since a President is the leader of our country, I think their approval ratings are important and indicative of the unity of the nation as a whole.

[Dystemper]

Ok to be clear. I'm not from your country.

I come from a very small country with a population of maybe 6-7 million. Our dollar is weaker by approx 1.2.
That being said. In my country. It is illegal to own firearms. In fact, it is extremely difficult to even obtain one illegally.

I would say, it would be rare for any of the police here to have cause to discharge their firearms to subdue criminals. Rare as in maybe once a year rare (sometimes not at all). It works. Extremely low rate of any kind of violent crimes here. Police here has no reason to fire on any suspect, because well, the probability of said suspect having a firearm is like 1%. Hence, I dare to say the police keeps their pistols holstered 99% of the time.

And no, what I asked is NOT a naive concept of self defense.

Since I'm not a US citizen, why do I care? Because it's the US. Any major event in the US has potential to affect the rest of the world, regardless of whether we want it or not. Like Trump/Hillary for eg. (and that's another can of worms).

There is a gun control megathread for this

[Daelak]

No its because they are poor, have a culture that mocks education, glorifies violence, and very often grow up in single mother households - Which is a key indicator for anti social behavior.

It's laughable you call it culture when they have been herded into these hellholes to ensure they cannot participate in the economy or in our democracy. Why do you think there are many single mother households? Where did the males go?

[hydrium]

Yes, liberals (all of them btw) want drone strikes on racist police officers. Hillary2016#

The statement is indeed hilariously wrong however we are moving closer to guilty until proven innocent in our society, especially with this Us vs Them narrative building the media is doing instead of fact based investigation.

[Ghostpanther]

If the entire nation was wealthy and rural, like Vermont, you might have a point. However, it isn't, so you don't.

It is per 100,000 population and the whole state is not rural. A lot of it is. But they do have some cities which are not small towns. :P I do agree there are other factors involved in the low crime rates in Vermont. But it is also indicative of how more access to guns in itself, is not the reason for high crime.

[Deleted]

You cannot separate criminal data from the historical precedence from which it came. Intergenerational poverty supported and embraced by white segregationists and racists from the federal government on down to your neighborhood association ensured black families were to have no part in white society. Excluded from safe neighborhoods, property, a steady income, familial wealth. This is simply the fruit of over 300 years of institutionalized brutality and fear.

Cool - that does not then mean that the police is racist for shooting criminals.
Also it completely undercuts your prior assertion that blacks don't commit more crime than white people.

The "culture" of violence, depression, drug abuse, joblessness, incarceration happens when you systematically exclude and isolate a population, the history of AA's shows exactly that, which is why if you know what the fuck you are talking about, shouldn't be surprised about civil disobedience coming from these populations.

Their culture needs to change - The problem is in their hands.
Think about it this way, Jim crow burned down the house, but once the house is burned, jim crow is no longer the problem, the burnt down house is.

[Daelak]

It is per 100,000 population and the whole state is not rural. A lot of it is. But they do have some cities which are not small towns. :P I do agree there are other factors involved in the low crime rates in Vermont. But it is also indicative of how more access to guns in itself, is not the reason for high crime.

There also aren't segregated housing projects in Vermont to the scale of your large US cities that act as drug trafficking hubs and gang activity.

[Ghostpanther]

There is a gun control megathread for this

True, there is. But the subject of this thread involves access to and use of firearms. So it is still on topic I think.

[Thelin]

"Don't film us looting and pillaging!"

http://i.imgur.com/HhBHXIX.mp4

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/09...sts-sot-ac.cnn

just goes to show you they're no better. Justice doesn't matter, facts don't matter. They want one thing...destruction, oh and BLM apparently wants reparations for all blacks.

[Deleted]

It's laughable you call it culture

because it is.

Why do you think there are many single mother households? Where did the males go?

Fun fact, during slavery, (when slaves were not granted to right to marry) and during jim crow, black people had greater marriage rates than white people.
What changed it? - The welfare system that wouldn't give money to families if the father was present.
Was Lyndon B Johnson racist?