Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
... LastLast
  1. #221
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by davesurfer View Post
    And this would be the argument agains loot council. If you make decisions based on emotion and not objectivity you are one of the people giving it a bad name.

    Either they raid or don't. Loot should never be decided on how you feel about someone.
    The post of @NoobistTV-Metro is the best argument pro-LC. Do you really want people in your raid who are topmost concerned of their loot and driven by the fear of not getting enough? In my experience, these are the first people who die in the fire at literally every encounter.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    And I agree with you. It can work beautifully. But in my experience, it hasn't. I've seen people who actually deserve loot get passed over for their IRL best friend, or some hot chic that sends nudes to the GM for loot. Those are very real problems. I've been playing since the launch of the original Naxxramas, and I've just seen good people lose out on so much they've deserved because of bad leadership and favoritism. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. I never meant to shun what works for you, but I take offense when someone tells me "you're stupid if you don't use LC". You're right, I just don't like it, but I HAVE tried it on numerous occasions.

    Sorry for any animosity, but I don't take kindly to people bashing me because I don't conform to their opinions. It's a rampant problem on these forums.

    Happy looting, Lemon.
    To lemon if it hasn't or doesn't happen to him personally it hasn't or doesn't happen to anyone. Only his personal experience counts. Nevermind someone like him who has never had or seen an issue is either a gm, on the loot council or very good friends with the gm and/or loot council. Which helps these issues from happening.

  3. #223
    Whatever happened to DKP like systems? I much prefer EPGP to rolls/personal loot/Loot Council as I believe it is much fairer (as long as the decay is reasonable to help newer players).

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidoeng7 View Post
    Well we have been using lootcouncil in the last 3 years never heard any1 complain, our setup is simple GM, officers and 2-3 raiders (class leaders).
    Loot is distributed based on biggest upgrade rank priority (trial < raider) and performance.
    I cant see how a good guild can go with higher roll wins (or the cancer personal loot), based on luck one guy can get everything and the rest shit while you need to have all geared equally in order to progress
    A raider will perform better than a trial as they have better gear. Does that mean you give loot to your best geared elements? Then that wouldn't be the biggest upgrade would it? Or did i misunderstood?

    My own experience with loot council, loot goes this way: Priority Tank (often RL) -> Healers (often RL friend and/or council)-> RL friends (often in the council) -> Officers -> plebs (you)

    That is why, unless you have a buddy in the council or RL that will boost you up, don't join those guilds.

    Personal favorite has always been DKP. But that is a bit a work.
    Last edited by Gratlim; 2016-09-22 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    But if not on council or friends with those on it, it can and does lead to people feeling they picked thier friend to get the loot. With how personal loot is now dropping more gear and being tradable it is clearly better except for a world first mythic team.

    One would imagine that if personal loot drops more gear and can be traded, that it is in fact better for a world first mythic team?

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitxd View Post
    One would imagine that if personal loot drops more gear and can be traded, that it is in fact better for a world first mythic team?
    Stop with facts you are ruining things here also it takes a gm's or loot councils power away and that is what they truely are fearing.

  7. #227
    I have always preferred loot council myself.

  8. #228
    Immortal Tharkkun's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Minnesnowta
    Posts
    7,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You can trade PL loot others who participated in the kill.
    Only if the ilevel of the drop is equal or worse to what you already have. Since we all should know by now ilevel doesn't mean it's an upgrade it's a bad system outside of pugs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    With 15ilevels and a socket thier is no way it isn't better for you at this point in the expansion got anymore stories to tell us?
    With updated stat weights from the night before it's less than a 1% upgrade with the gem. Learn how gear works on rings with no primary stat.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Essentia@Cho'gall of Inebriated Raiding.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ssentia/simple
    http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/pc/us/Tharkkun-1222

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    If you knew how main stat is >>>>> than all other stats then one with 20 ilevels of main stats would be better than any secondary stat. Or do you not know that? And you not knowing that shows one of the many reasons loot councils are bad. As you come here thinkng you know all and don't even know that. Now I am suppose to believe you know anything about gear for other classes and decide who gets what based off of your knowledge? Yeah sure.
    First, I'm not on a loot council, sunshine. However, in 10 years of raiding I've never had an issue with one. Arms with the right gear has a nearly 1.4:1 ratio of Mastery to STR. In other words, I would've needed to gain hundreds of STR on a pair of bracers in order to counter the loss of Mastery. Suffice to say, that was not the case. Please educate yourself. You said a notably lower item level piece could never be an upgrade, and that simply couldn't be further from the truth for certain specs. You are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    I'm not miserable at all. However, I'm assuming you are with the amount of disdain you throw around to other posters assuming we all know Warrior stat weights.

    I have succeeded, triumphantly.
    Then don't claim a notably lower ilvl piece could never be an upgrade for some specs. It's an ignorant blanket statement, and shows how shallow your knowledge of the game is. Does nobody remember Mastery clownsuits during Cata? Hell, even Sub was using Mastery clownsuits to snapshot openers in WoD. Weird things can happen with gear. Just because it isn't the case for your spec, doesn't mean that it can't be the case for others.

    With the following weights (M=1.37, H=1.09, S=1.00, V=0.80, C=0.73):

    Gain from wearing 825 over 850 (Normalized): 878.65
    Loss from wearing 825 over 850 (Normalized): 681.1
    DPS gained from stats wearing 825 over 850: 8,472.61
    DPS lost from stats wearing 825 over 850: 6,457.26
    Net DPS gained from wearing 825 over 850: 2,015.35
    Last edited by Propainn; 2016-09-22 at 04:41 PM.

  10. #230
    When I was raiding back in BC, WoLK , Cata and we all use DKP. We are not like world or sever first but we are pretty serious (did Heroic mode in LK etc etc....) Never had an issue with loot. With DKP every new raid the points get reset so every new raid everyone starts fresh. Is like if everyone show up you get 100DP, each boss you down 10points, if you die -5 points etc etc..... And you hand in a bid to the Leader, GM who ever is in charge. You get 2 chance to bid on gear. Highest bidder gets the gear.

    It also puts the decsion of getting gear in your hands if you want to outbid another person. If you really want the gear you will use the points. If you aren't really sure then you might not. I never trust LC I mean we are all humans and humans all are bias so is really unfair.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    You're right. My knowledge of the game isn't shallow. It's just shallow about a class I don't really have much interest in. You're right, though, I assumed STR would be your highest stat weight. What I didn't appreciate is the lack of character you showed by insulting someone versus explaining why you're right.
    Don't laugh at someone and mock them for stating facts, and maybe they'll treat you with some respect. Jewsco came at someone for saying that a 15+ ilvl gap was impossible to overcome via stat weights, no matter the situation, which clearly means they must be misinformed. Then you came in white-knighting for Jewsco with your "LOLs" and such. Playing the victim card doesn't work here.
    Last edited by Propainn; 2016-09-22 at 04:52 PM.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    Not like you're on some moral high-ground with your elitist way of informing people of their mistakes. Just gonna move on from this. Got better things to do.
    It's a big reason why I never wanted to teach. Not very good at sugar coating.

  13. #233
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    America, you great unfinished symphony.
    Posts
    6,525
    Quote Originally Posted by NoobistTV-Metro View Post
    We have used loot council for 8 years.
    If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

    If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.
    This is a pretty good example of why loot council sucks.

    This was a way for the narcissistic douche bags of vanilla to maintain control over people, and keep an element of elitism. No one else on the realm cares... but my guildies will learn to fear and respect me... OR NO LOOT!

    I have been in one guild ever that actually used loot council fairly and often those on the council were the last to receive gear.

    Speaking directly to you now Mr. @NoobistTV-Metro this proves that you don't distribute gear fairly or appropriately, and as such your loot council is unjustified.

    Because while ultimately a person's fears/concerns about the fairness of such a system are irrelevant. A good leader should/would take this into consideration and at least be able to understand where they are coming from. (especially given the state of the community). If you were to deny him gear because of his "poor attitude" it shows that you aren't doing what is best for the guild and progression which is ultimately what a loot council is for.

    You would/should either:
    (1) Give the noobie loot as a show of good faith... and to show that he is valued for what he brings to the table
    (2) Because of superior performance and/or based on needs he gets the gear

    This is absolutely a legitimate concern. A week or 2 though with the guild would give a you a pretty good idea how they operate, and whether or not they employ loot council just to ensure the GL and his buddies get geared first.

    An example of need would be 850 cloth bracers drop. Pretty much everyone has 840 bracers, but for some goddamn reason your warlock has 700 ilvl bracers. Well thats a huge increase for him, which ultimately is the biggest benefit to the guild. So he gets it.

    Now if everyone has 840 you look at performance, who can maximize this extra 10 ilvl?
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2016-09-22 at 05:07 PM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Loot Councils are there to ensure the entire raid gets geared as equally and fairly as possible. Some loot councils also consider your performance. If you're parsing like shit and need to step up your game, a piece of gear might be sent to another guy instead of you because he'll actually be able to use it whereas it would be less effective given to you.
    If someone is under performing repeatedly they should be benched and replaced, not denied loot. It's pretty shitty to tell a raider who stuck through all the wipes of progression that they are being excluded from loot based on their performance even though a successful kill was netted. This to me is a great example of why Loot Council sucks, and a less biased system like DKP works.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Propainn View Post
    First, I'm not on a loot council, sunshine. However, in 10 years of raiding I've never had an issue with one. Arms with the right gear has a nearly 1.4:1 ratio of Mastery to STR. In other words, I would've needed to gain hundreds of STR on a pair of bracers in order to counter the loss of Mastery. Suffice to say, that was not the case. Please educate yourself. You said a notably lower item level piece could never be an upgrade, and that simply couldn't be further from the truth for certain specs. You are wrong.



    Then don't claim a notably lower ilvl piece could never be an upgrade for some specs. It's an ignorant blanket statement, and shows how shallow your knowledge of the game is. Does nobody remember Mastery clownsuits during Cata? Hell, even Sub was using Mastery clownsuits to snapshot openers in WoD. Weird things can happen with gear. Just because it isn't the case for your spec, doesn't mean that it can't be the case for others.

    With the following weights (M=1.37, H=1.09, S=1.00, V=0.80, C=0.73):

    Gain from wearing 825 over 850 (Normalized): 878.65
    Loss from wearing 825 over 850 (Normalized): 681.1
    DPS gained from stats wearing 825 over 850: 8,472.61
    DPS lost from stats wearing 825 over 850: 6,457.26
    Net DPS gained from wearing 825 over 850: 2,015.35
    Are answers show why we shouldn't be on a loot council as a loot council would need to know that and guess what most wouldn't.
    Because that stat wieght isn't even true for every warrior spec. So unless a warrior it is easy not to know that and thus easy for that to lead to problems as pointed out here. Thanks for helping to prove the point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Only if the ilevel of the drop is equal or worse to what you already have. Since we all should know by now ilevel doesn't mean it's an upgrade it's a bad system outside of pugs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    With updated stat weights from the night before it's less than a 1% upgrade with the gem. Learn how gear works on rings with no primary stat.

    Thanks for proving how a loot council could go bad. Updated stat wieghts from a night before changes how big of an upgrade an item is. So someone not of your class might not know that but be deciding on gear see how that could and does lead to problems? Thanks for helping

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    You're right. My knowledge of the game isn't shallow. It's just shallow about a class I don't really have much interest in. You're right, though, I assumed STR would be your highest stat weight. What I didn't appreciate is the lack of character you showed by insulting someone versus explaining why you're right.
    And why raiding with a loot council with someone like him is bound to go bad look how he treats others. Must be such a pleasure to be around

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Simulacrum View Post
    Pretty good example here of why you shouldn't raid with guilds that use loot councils... unless you're part of the council, or you're undergeared relative to the rest of the raid.
    Yep, Loot Council really should be call something more appropriate like "Only if we like you Loot". Loot Council does nothing but create drama and has nothing to do with a fair distribution of loot. The one and only place it can serve a valid function is in the very small handful of guilds who compete for World or Region firsts.

    Outside of that, something like EPGP will always be a better way to handle loot. It removes the ego that comes with Loot Council and eliminates the RNG of /roll. And while top guilds will refuse to use it, the new Personal Loot system is a valid option these days. It's even better than doing a /roll for MS with a Guild ML as it provides exactly the same amount of gear, the gear can be traded if not an upgrade in most cases, and someone doesn't have to sit at the corpse and distribute loot.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Propainn View Post
    It's a big reason why I never wanted to teach. Not very good at sugar coating.
    So you are good for a loot council or deal with a loot councils decisions well and don't go off on people there? Because all in a raid team would know this about a class they don't play?
    Sure thanks for proving the point.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljaedon View Post
    I have been out of the raiding scene for years and from what I am reading personal loot seems like a better overall gearing option for entire guilds but on my servers the only guilds recruiting are all loot council based. I am wondering if the Inner circle buddy system will be prevalent and something I should just walk away from.

    I joined this one guild recently since all 5 of the only mythic guilds recruiting all used loot council but has anyone had alot of good experiences with loot council or should I just cut my ties? I did notice that the officers were all grouped together doing mythic modes seeming to exclude other members but that is natural to want to group up with your closer knit friends so that has no bearing on this issue. Just seems ripe for abuse over personal loot or DKP.
    Loot council is a more efficient method for gearing your raid out faster and can give the biggest upgrades to who needs it most. But of course is open to being abused which is on a case by case basis. So raid and have fun, and if the problem pops up where officers are getting all the loot just look for a new guild again

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    So you are good for a loot council or deal with a loot councils decisions well and don't go off on people there? Because all in a raid team would know this about a class they don't play?
    Sure thanks for proving the point.
    I've been dealing with loot council since WotLK generally, across a few different guilds. It just works the best at higher levels of progression, where everybody in the raid cares more about progression than their own gear anyway. You could honestly remove loot council in most deep mythic guilds, as the vast majority of players I've raided with since WotLK will pass on an upgrade if it's a notably higher upgrade for someone else. People will generally police themselves , and just /roll if it's an about equal upgrade for equal contributors. Loot drama is almost exclusive to lower level progression guilds with how easy it is to get gear now compared to earlier expansions, especially those without bonus rolls, and the new titan/warforged system.

    Has the guild been well progressed, with relatively low turnover for a few years? Probably safe to trust the council. Newer guild with a high turnover, and noticeably cliquey atmosphere? Probably not.
    Last edited by Propainn; 2016-09-22 at 07:55 PM.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    Oh it is you again claiming loot ninjaing and stuff never or rarely happens. Move along folks he won't change his mind because he says it doesn't happen Nevermind the fact that personal loot is in the game due that very reason but it rarely happens.
    Its very rare, in my experience. Unless you have actual proof to your claim?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    And I agree with you. It can work beautifully. But in my experience, it hasn't. I've seen people who actually deserve loot get passed over for their IRL best friend, or some hot chic that sends nudes to the GM for loot. Those are very real problems. I've been playing since the launch of the original Naxxramas, and I've just seen good people lose out on so much they've deserved because of bad leadership and favoritism. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. I never meant to shun what works for you, but I take offense when someone tells me "you're stupid if you don't use LC". You're right, I just don't like it, but I HAVE tried it on numerous occasions.

    Sorry for any animosity, but I don't take kindly to people bashing me because I don't conform to their opinions. It's a rampant problem on these forums.

    Happy looting, Lemon.
    Those are issues with the guild, not inherently with LC. If those things are happening in your guild, that guild is destined to fail because of bad leadership, not because LCs existence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •