Britain will veto EU army, says Defence Secretary

[Kalis]

There is no way you are getting access to the market w/t allowing free movement.

That is an unknown, they may well come to an agreement that suits both parties, e.g. one that doesn't have complete freedom of movement, to satiate British interests and doesn't have complete access, to satiate EU interests. Compromises are not unheard of in politics.

If you do end up allowing free movement then your referendum would be garbage as that was one of the big point the anti camp had right?

Hence why I don't believe that will be on the cards for the UK, in spite of what some in the EU are demanding. Again this goes back to compromise.

Anyways, we will be around when this happens. I wouldn't keep my hopes too up if i were you kalis.

I am not basing my claims on what I want to happen, but on what I believe will happen, this belief comes from observation and experience.

Most people in Brexit related threads base their statements on what they want to happen, this comes from both those who were staunchly pro-leave and also the bitter fuck-the-UK camps, the former are just as mongy as they always were, the latter are acting like jilted teenagers.

Take a step back, stop basing your claims of what will happen on what you want and actually look at the realistic possibilities, taking into account things like how screwing over an economy that is thoroughly entwined with your own would be retarded.

The EU (and its predecessors) were created to stop war in Europe amongst member states by means of integrating the national economies with each other, it has been spectacularly successful in that. The reasoning behind it was that if you go to war then you would destroy your own economy in the process, it is perfectly logical. That relates to a physical war, but the process is also true of an economic war, so if the EU attempts to screw over the UK it also hurts itself in the process, especially countries like Ireland and Germany, not so much Slovakia, but then nobody gives a flying fuck about Slovakia - the UK knows this and the EU knows this, so they have to reach a compromise that all parties can herald as a win.

[Slant]

I am sure those EU power houses of the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia will be the ones dictating terms

That's what a veto usually does. Give a faction an emergency brake, despite their insignificance in comparison to other factions. So yes, I think if it legally pans out, they will indeed be dictating terms.

- - - Updated - - -

And if they veto every deal with the UK, then it will piss off Germany who actually funds the EU and it is never a good idea to fuck off the people holding the purse strings, they have an annoying tendency to tighten those strings.

I don't believe that anyone living in Greece (as I think you do) is under any illusion as to who holds the power in the EU and it isn't the likes of Slovakia, is it?

Oh, rest assured, Germany will be pleased with any opposition to the Brexit deal they can get. See, if Poland et all throw in their veto, Germany can be an ass and point to other people for the blame. "Look, we would kiss your ass and hand you the keys to the EU coffers, but those guys over there really don't want to, so... sorry guys!"

[Kalis]

That's what a veto usually does. Give a faction an emergency brake, despite their insignificance in comparison to other factions. So yes, I think if it legally pans out, they will indeed be dictating terms.

They won't be able to stand up to political pressure from Germany, they would be insane to do so as their potential losses would outweigh any potential gains.

Oh, rest assured, Germany will be pleased with any opposition to the Brexit deal they can get. See, if Poland et all throw in their veto, Germany can be an ass and point to other people for the blame. "Look, we would kiss your ass and hand you the keys to the EU coffers, but those guys over there really don't want to, so... sorry guys!"

It is in Germany's interest to have a relatively strong UK economy, they are going to be selling their BMWs to the UK in greater numbers than to Slovakia. Germany will look after Germany, that means not having its economy damaged by having the UK economy damaged. What person wants their customer to be in a position where the customer can't purchase as many products from them?

As I have said numerous times, Greece fucking up was damaging on a wide scale and was something within the control of Germany and France to ameliorate, the UK economy going down the pan would crash Europe and further afield, the differences in scale between the Greek and British economies are phenomenal.

[Deleted]

NATO can do this already.

NATO serves American Interests. It does not serve European interests to the same extend.

The European nations can't even spend the minimum required for NATO. If they can't spend that amount then how are they going to reduce US influence on EU?

NATO does not have a minimum reguirement. The 2% is a recommendation. That is why countries can skip it without repercussions.

The reason why is that the EU countries are not willing to spend on their own armies. Pooling together resources isn't going to magically make countries spend more money. So is Germany willing to shoulder that economic burden for a EU army along with France?

Yes? Germany has been increasing its Military Budget for a while now. Germany ranks 9th on Military Spending worldwide. So it is hardly not funding its Armed forces.

Turkey and Israel both have very strong air Forces and ground forces. The EU doesn't have anything close or comparable other than Italy and Greece. And these are the two Euro countries that take their military seriously but both are broke. So, that really leaves France with a comparable military force that is well equipped and well trained.

And that is why the EU needs a Military. Pooling together resources. Considering how poorly the US did in the Strong Tank Compeition, I dare say European Tank crews are not even close to untrained compared to the US. In fact, despite being the only nation to provide two tank platoons instead of one, the US didn't even place. Germany wound up coming in first place, followed by Denmark and Poland.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...k-competition/
https://www.sott.net/article/318754-...Tank-Challenge

A voluntary EU Army would require money money and it isn't dirt cheap.

The EU is one of the most Powerfull, wealthiest economic blocks in the world.

Based on how the refugee situation is being handled? That is a firm no. Eastern European countries see it as a massive security risk. Western European countries see it as tea time.

One of the function of a United EU army would be securing borders.

The US doesn't have world hegemony as it clear as day. What is also clear is that 3% of GDP for a EU army is still peanuts compared to what Russia, China and USA spend. If the Euros can't even spend 2% for their own armies what makes anyone think they can spend 3% for a pan European Army?

And again the 2% is not a reguirment for NATO. Germany spends less then 2% and still ranks 9th in worldwide Military spending. You have to compare each Countries GDP. Using a fixed amount just is wasteful and useless.

[Slant]

They won't be able to stand up to political pressure from Germany, they would be insane to do so as their potential losses would outweigh any potential gains.



It is in Germany's interest to have a relatively strong UK economy, they are going to be selling their BMWs to the UK in greater numbers than to Slovakia. Germany will look after Germany, that means not having its economy damaged by having the UK economy damaged. What person wants their customer to be in a position where the customer can't purchase as many products from them?

As I have said numerous times, Greece fucking up was damaging on a wide scale and was something within the control of Germany and France to ameliorate, the UK economy going down the pan would crash Europe and further afield, the differences in scale between the Greek and British economies are phenomenal.

It's not and has never been about "crashing the UK economy". That's not what this is about. What this is about is the UK thinking they are in a position to dictate anything. The things the UK wants or doesn't want? None of those are going to ruin the UKs economy. It's bullshit talk about throwing out polish workers and such. Whether or not you retain polish workers is of absolutely no significance to the greater UK economy. Nobody gives a fuck about them in terms of economy. So yes, we can absolutely afford to make a stand on that topic.

And yes, it's the UK dragging its feet for no good reason. The only one crashing the UKs economy is the UK itself. Not anyone else. That's the thing about "being independent". People have told the UK time and again that there would be consequences of leaving. You know, like the apparently not too obvious: You'll not be in the EU anymore. I know, it's a shocker for some, but you can't vote to get out and then be surprised that you're out.

[Kalis]

It's not and has never been about "crashing the UK economy". That's not what this is about. What this is about is the UK thinking they are in a position to dictate anything. The things the UK wants or doesn't want? None of those are going to ruin the UKs economy. It's bullshit talk about throwing out polish workers and such. Whether or not you retain polish workers is of absolutely no significance to the greater UK economy. Nobody gives a fuck about them in terms of economy. So yes, we can absolutely afford to make a stand on that topic.

Except much of the talk is about punishing the UK, which could only be done by means of harming the UK economy, otherwise it is not a punishment.

When it comes to countries, there are two types of nations a wealthy free market country like Germany wants others to be:

1) Poor nations that you can use for cheap labour
2) Wealthy nations you can sell your crap to

The countries in pot 2 are typically harder to find, so they are more valuable. Poor nations are two-a-penny.

Now look at the UK, they don't really fit into 1, there are nations far more suited to that role for Germany, e.g. Poland. And if you are going to restrict the open market due to freedom of movement restrictions, then the UK would not be suited at all, due to that lack of freedom of movement.

The UK is the fifth/sixth largest economy in the world, that level of wealth is incredibly difficult to build up in a nation, so they fit far more comfortably into pot 2.

Germany's interests overlap with those of the UK, as do the rest of the pro-free market nations within the EU, so when you say that Germany will hide behind the veto of Poland or Slovakia it makes no sense from the German point of view.

And yes, it's the UK dragging its feet for no good reason. The only one crashing the UKs economy is the UK itself. Not anyone else. That's the thing about "being independent". People have told the UK time and again that there would be consequences of leaving. You know, like the apparently not too obvious: You'll not be in the EU anymore. I know, it's a shocker for some, but you can't vote to get out and then be surprised that you're out.

The UK is not out yet, Article 50 is not due to be invoked until early next year, so I am not really sure what you are talking about.

[Slant]

Except much of the talk is about punishing the UK, which could only be done by means of harming the UK economy, otherwise it is not a punishment.

When it comes to countries, there are two types of nations a wealthy free market country like Germany wants others to be:

1) Poor nations that you can use for cheap labour
2) Wealthy nations you can sell your crap to

The countries in pot 2 are typically harder to find, so they are more valuable. Poor nations are two-a-penny.

Now look at the UK, they don't really fit into 1, there are nations far more suited to that role for Germany, e.g. Poland. And if you are going to restrict the open market due to freedom of movement restrictions, then the UK would not be suited at all, due to that lack of freedom of movement.

The UK is the fifth/sixth largest economy in the world, that level of wealth is incredibly difficult to build up in a nation, so they fit far more comfortably into pot 2.

Germany's interests overlap with those of the UK, as do the rest of the pro-free market nations within the EU, so when you say that Germany will hide behind the veto of Poland or Slovakia it makes no sense from the German point of view.

The UK is not out yet, Article 50 is not due to be invoked until early next year, so I am not really sure what you are talking about.

Nobody talks about punishment. That's what people in the UK don't get. It's about rules. When you vote to get out, you're out. That's it. Same rules apply for the UK that apply for Uganda. That's the entire point. I am having difficulty explaining it to people, apparently. So yes, this discussion is a bit moot until you understand the difference.

Once you accept that the UK is in basically the same position that any other third-nation on the planet is, ie. they'll have to make a deal with the EU, you'll notice a couple of things: First, they are in a bad position. When you are the US, you can afford to be an arrogant ass. When you're 5 times smaller than the economy you're trying to deal with, you're not the one that can make demands. This is something unfathomable to people in the UK that brag about the might of the UK.

Here's the gist: Is the UK valuable? Yeah sure. Is it valuable enough to buttfuck the entire core principles of the EU? As Russia can assure you, the EU usually answers this question with "Nope, not one bit." Germany has called and supported actions that go against German interests often enough. Economy isn't everything.

And I repeat once more... German cars aren't bought because of the currency, or because of the market or any other stupid fucked up fantasy reason you want to dream up. They're bought because they're good. They're already among the most expensive in their classes, yet they still get bought. Why is that? Because the UK has fuck all alternatives. You can choose to either import American cars (have fun squeezing them through your narrow streets) or Japanese cars. And surprisingly, not everyone wants to drive a Daihatsu.

You lot need to get it into your head. We will sell cars to the UK no matter what. It really doesn't matter what scenario, we'll sell cars to the UK like there's no tomorrow. Slap some punitive customs on them (btw, this is the UK doing that shit, not the EU, again a misunderstanding people are having... if you have customs in a trade from Germany to the UK, it's the UK putting customs on them, not Germany... why would we put customs on exports? We live off exports.. try to think things through) and the only people you'll punish is UK citizens. Why would we care? We still sell cars.

[Kalis]

Nobody talks about punishment. That's what people in the UK don't get. It's about rules. When you vote to get out, you're out. That's it. Same rules apply for the UK that apply for Uganda. That's the entire point. I am having difficulty explaining it to people, apparently. So yes, this discussion is a bit moot until you understand the difference.

You may want to read some of the other posts, they are talking about punishments.

And the UK is not going to be treated the same as Uganda, that is a silly claim. The Ugandan economy is worth dick squat in comparison to the UK economy.

Once you accept that the UK is in basically the same position that any other third-nation on the planet is, ie. they'll have to make a deal with the EU, you'll notice a couple of things: First, they are in a bad position. When you are the US, you can afford to be an arrogant ass. When you're 5 times smaller than the economy you're trying to deal with, you're not the one that can make demands. This is something unfathomable to people in the UK that brag about the might of the UK.

Your entire premise is flawed, the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world, not a third world nation.

Here's the gist: Is the UK valuable? Yeah sure. Is it valuable enough to buttfuck the entire core principles of the EU? As Russia can assure you, the EU usually answers this question with "Nope, not one bit." Germany has called and supported actions that go against German interests often enough. Economy isn't everything.

The UK has a larger economy than Russia, more than twice the size, and its economy is far more entwined with other EU nations than Russia's is. Again you are arguing from a position that is not equivalent.

And I repeat once more... German cars aren't bought because of the currency, or because of the market or any other stupid fucked up fantasy reason you want to dream up. They're bought because they're good. They're already among the most expensive in their classes, yet they still get bought. Why is that? Because the UK has fuck all alternatives. You can choose to either import American cars (have fun squeezing them through your narrow streets) or Japanese cars. And surprisingly, not everyone wants to drive a Daihatsu.

That is not a rebuttal to any argument I have put forward.

You lot need to get it into your head. We will sell cars to the UK no matter what. It really doesn't matter what scenario, we'll sell cars to the UK like there's no tomorrow. Slap some punitive customs on them (btw, this is the UK doing that shit, not the EU, again a misunderstanding people are having... if you have customs in a trade from Germany to the UK, it's the UK putting customs on them, not Germany... why would we put customs on exports? We live off exports.. try to think things through) and the only people you'll punish is UK citizens. Why would we care? We still sell cars.

Again this isn't a rebuttal to any of my arguments.

[Slant]

You may want to read some of the other posts, they are talking about punishments.

And the UK is not going to be treated the same as Uganda, that is a silly claim. The Ugandan economy is worth dick squat in comparison to the UK economy.



Your entire premise is flawed, the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world, not a third world nation.



The UK has a larger economy than Russia, more than twice the size, and its economy is far more entwined with other EU nations than Russia's is. Again you are arguing from a position that is not equivalent.



That is not a rebuttal to any argument I have put forward.



Again this isn't a rebuttal to any of my arguments.

It all boils down to the one dream the UK has: "Nothing bad will happen, because we are big and they depend on us."

That's the only straw you have. To put this into scale: The EU is eye to eye with the US. Not the UK. The UK is a small partner for the EU. So when you talk about "The UK being the 5th largest economy", that's a bit of a distortion. Let's look at the numbers, shall we?

1 United States 18,558,130
— European Union[n 1][8] 16,477,211
2 China 11,383,030
3 Japan 4,412,600
4 Germany 3,467,780
5 United Kingdom 2,760,960

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._GDP_(nominal)

So, the UK's economy is roughly 6 times smaller than that of the EU. Before we're interested in the UK, we're dealing with the US (who we are about to slap in the face for the way they negotiate TTIP), China (who we extort wherever we can and block trade whenever it suits us), Japan (compare unit costs of consoles between Japan and the EU for a fun comparison). All of those are more important to us than the UK. If they don't get favourable deals where the EU let's them buttrape us, why do you think the UK would get such a deal? Because we're old chums? Don't be ridiculous, that ship has sailed. You wanted to make this about business, well, it's about business. If the EU wants polish workers to have access to the UK labour market in exchange for your access to the free market, that's a pill you'll be able to swallow.

Put this into perspective, you have about 1 million Poles in the UK. That's a very, very generous estimate about who's in your labour market, as I'm taking into account just polish people, not polish working people. And to get rid of them, you want to sacrifice access to the free market, a thing that you repeatedly acknowledge is essential to your economy. This is a ridiculous discussion by those merits alone, but let's not stop there...

It's not us forbidding you to access the EU market. It's us talking about free movement of labour. How exactly do you think you're going to do financial services in the EU if you can't send your workers to the EU to work in the banks that are going to be relocated from London to the new EU's financial centres? That's a big part of your economy is it not? Did you think you get to keep the financial service privileges the EU granted you? Seriously? A foreign nation having access to internal regulatory mechanics of the EU? It's crazy enough that you could meddle in Eurozone affairs as it was, but at least you were a EU member with a common interest. Now you're hellbent on fleeing the EU, don't count on the EU giving you that kind of access to do damage to the EU economy.

[Mondroc]

It all boils down to the one dream the UK has: "Nothing bad will happen, because we are big and they depend on us."

That's the only straw you have. To put this into scale: The EU is eye to eye with the US. Not the UK. The UK is a small partner for the EU. So when you talk about "The UK being the 5th largest economy", that's a bit of a distortion. Let's look at the numbers, shall we?

1 United States 18,558,130
— European Union[n 1][8] 16,477,211
2 China 11,383,030
3 Japan 4,412,600
4 Germany 3,467,780
5 United Kingdom 2,760,960

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._GDP_(nominal)

So, the UK's economy is roughly 6 times smaller than that of the EU. Before we're interested in the UK, we're dealing with the US (who we are about to slap in the face for the way they negotiate TTIP), China (who we extort wherever we can and block trade whenever it suits us), Japan (compare unit costs of consoles between Japan and the EU for a fun comparison). All of those are more important to us than the UK. If they don't get favourable deals where the EU let's them buttrape us, why do you think the UK would get such a deal? Because we're old chums? Don't be ridiculous, that ship has sailed. You wanted to make this about business, well, it's about business. If the EU wants polish workers to have access to the UK labour market in exchange for your access to the free market, that's a pill you'll be able to swallow.

Put this into perspective, you have about 1 million Poles in the UK. That's a very, very generous estimate about who's in your labour market, as I'm taking into account just polish people, not polish working people. And to get rid of them, you want to sacrifice access to the free market, a thing that you repeatedly acknowledge is essential to your economy. This is a ridiculous discussion by those merits alone, but let's not stop there...

It's not us forbidding you to access the EU market. It's us talking about free movement of labour. How exactly do you think you're going to do financial services in the EU if you can't send your workers to the EU to work in the banks that are going to be relocated from London to the new EU's financial centres? That's a big part of your economy is it not? Did you think you get to keep the financial service privileges the EU granted you? Seriously? A foreign nation having access to internal regulatory mechanics of the EU? It's crazy enough that you could meddle in Eurozone affairs as it was, but at least you were a EU member with a common interest. Now you're hellbent on fleeing the EU, don't count on the EU giving you that kind of access to do damage to the EU economy.

You should really have a point before flapping around trying to find one, it makes it hard for people to take you seriously when the whole premise of your side of the debate is "Wah wah UK bad EU RULEZ". You can't just write up whatever sounds good to your point of view and then swear it to be true just because you want it to be. I mean, you yourself said it.. the UKs economy is 1/6th of that of the entire EU.. how on earth is that a bad thing?! Honestly, if you're interested in this stuff you should go and study economics and not just regurgitate what the media tells you because they only care about what sells, not what is true. The truth is we will just have to wait and see, at this point pretty much anything could happen depending on the general attitudes of *all* involved.

Edit: Even the politicians don't say what is true, just what looks good. I wouldn't be at all surprised if negotiations were already going on, and the tough act is just so the EU can save face and play the hard mistress to warn off future EU-leavers. As the dude above said, compromises will have to be made on both sides (see my previous post for my prediction :P)

[Kalis]

It all boils down to the one dream the UK has: "Nothing bad will happen, because we are big and they depend on us."

That's the only straw you have. To put this into scale: The EU is eye to eye with the US. Not the UK. The UK is a small partner for the EU. So when you talk about "The UK being the 5th largest economy", that's a bit of a distortion. Let's look at the numbers, shall we?

Again your premise is flawed, the EU is not one single economy, it is a collection of economies. The more powerful economies will dictate what the weaker economies will accept in any negotiations. If you think that Germany will accept damaging its own economy in order to appease Polish pride, then you are insane.

So, the UK's economy is roughly 6 times smaller than that of the EU. Before we're interested in the UK, we're dealing with the US (who we are about to slap in the face for the way they negotiate TTIP), China (who we extort wherever we can and block trade whenever it suits us), Japan (compare unit costs of consoles between Japan and the EU for a fun comparison). All of those are more important to us than the UK. If they don't get favourable deals where the EU let's them buttrape us, why do you think the UK would get such a deal? Because we're old chums? Don't be ridiculous, that ship has sailed. You wanted to make this about business, well, it's about business. If the EU wants polish workers to have access to the UK labour market in exchange for your access to the free market, that's a pill you'll be able to swallow.

The EU doesn't give a shit about Polish workers, only Poland does.

Put this into perspective, you have about 1 million Poles in the UK. That's a very, very generous estimate about who's in your labour market, as I'm taking into account just polish people, not people working people. And to get rid of them, you want to sacrifice access to the free market, a thing that you repeatedly acknowledge is essential to your economy. This is a ridiculous discussion by those merits alone, but let's not stop there...

You are again failing to take into account compromise, the UK does not need completely free access, so the UK will be more than willing to sacrifice some free access for certain industries and in return the EU will accept some limits on freedom of movement.

Everybody wins in that scenario, a far more likely option than creating a hostile economic power on your doorstep.

It's not us forbidding you to access the EU market. It's us talking about free movement of labour. How exactly do you think you're going to do financial services in the EU if you can't send your workers to the EU to work in the banks that are going to be relocated from London to the new EU's financial centres? That's a big part of your economy is it not? Did you think you get to keep the financial service privileges the EU granted you? Seriously? A foreign nation having access to internal regulatory mechanics of the EU? It's crazy enough that you could meddle in Eurozone affairs as it was, but at least you were a EU member with a common interest. Now you're hellbent on fleeing the EU, don't count on the EU giving you that kind of access to do damage to the EU economy.

There is not going to be a relevant EU rival to London as a financial centre, they will snatch up bits of business, but London will still be the pre-eminent financial centre in Europe.

[GennGreymane]

Yeah a European army controlled by the Germans and the French and nobody sees that this is a very very bad idea is just not part of reality.

Will they dominate or surrender?

[Deleted]

NATO can do this already.

But doesn't.

The European nations can't even spend the minimum required for NATO. If they can't spend that amount then how are they going to reduce US influence on EU?

If we took all EU defense spending and pooled it, it would work out fine - If the Uk and France agreed to build one type of carrier, in one wharf, they could build 4 instead of struggling to deploy two.

The reason why is that the EU countries are not willing to spend on their own armies. Pooling together resources isn't going to magically make countries spend more money. So is Germany willing to shoulder that economic burden for a EU army along with France?

The German army alone is stronger then Israel, and again, they wouldn't.
Germany pays the most to the EU because their economy is the biggest.

A voluntary EU Army would require money money and it isn't dirt cheap.

I told you how it could be paid for.

Based on how the refugee situation is being handled? That is a firm no. Eastern European countries see it as a massive security risk. Western European countries see it as tea time.

They used to - Now they see it as a drain of money and a security problem - The Era of asylum might come to an end.

The US doesn't have world hegemony as it clear as day. What is also clear is that 3% of GDP for a EU army is still peanuts compared to what Russia, China and USA spend. If the Euros can't even spend 2% for their own armies what makes anyone think they can spend 3% for a pan European Army?

Do you understand GDP? - Depending on how you count, the Eurozone is the world's largest economy - 3% of a unimaginably large pie is more than 8% of a much smaller pie.

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Will they dominate or surrender?

Not sure.

[Slant]

Everybody wins in that scenario, a far more likely option than creating a hostile economic power on your doorstep.

We already have a hostile economic power on our doorstep. Always had with the UK. What would this change? lol, you kept blocking any major progress wherever you could. At least this way we won't have a semi-hostile political power in our midst anymore...

[Deleted]

We already have a hostile economic power on our doorstep. Always had with the UK. What would this change? lol, you kept blocking any major progress wherever you could. At least this way we won't have a semi-hostile political power in our midst anymore...

yeah the thing i hated the most was their obstruction of Eurozone 'progress' - They are not even in the fucking Eurozone, their opinion is null and void.

[Ulmita]

To contribute to the mood, i hated the retard Cameron when he used blackmail EU with a referendum and a Brexit w/e he wanted something or didn't get what he was asking for. Sad part is that at the end, he managed to fuck things up...

There you go, Ulmita's 30 seconds of UK rant.

[Risale]

Will they dominate or surrender?

Yup that was what I was thinking also. Welcome to the fourth reich, my grandad is most like doing backflips in his grave right now not to mention the rest of that generation.

[dribbles]

Yup that was what I was thinking also. Welcome to the fourth reich, my grandad is most like doing backflips in his grave right now not to mention the rest of that generation.

Don't worry, if Brussels doesn't give the UK free access to the single market and agree we have control of our own borders, 1 in 10 people currently employed in Brussels will become unemployed. Hopefully one of those will be drunken Juncker. Pretty much the same scenario happens across many countries in the EU.

"Civitas said that 3.2 percent of all German jobs are linked to exports to the U.K, whereas only 2.4 percent of British jobs are reliant on Germany. Almost one in 10 jobs in Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, and Belgium are connected to trade with the U.K."


Just reported today in fact.

[Flutterguy]

They don't want to be charged the money required to help arm and equip an EU army they don't plan on being a part of in the near future anyway. It makes sense.

[Deleted]

Don't worry, if Brussels doesn't give the UK free access to the single market and agree we have control of our own borders, 1 in 10 people currently employed in Brussels will become unemployed

How? - what mechanism does this?

Hopefully one of those will be drunken Juncker. Pretty much the same scenario happens across many countries in the EU.

Well see not everyone has one of those democratically elected leaders.
Say, who elected, Oh yes, no one actually did elect yours.

"Civitas said that 3.2 percent of all German jobs are linked to exports to the U.K, whereas only 2.4 percent of British jobs are reliant on Germany. Almost one in 10 jobs in Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, and Belgium are connected to trade with the U.K."

A, Link, B, 15% of UK's GDP derive from selling shit to the EU, 3% of the EU's are to the UK.