Frost dk im so upset.

[Coffeh]

Its honestly pretty unbelievable how bad the WoW dev team is at balancing classes, and the QA team is just as bad.

I find it quite baffling, myself. We're talking about a spec that has the worst mobility in the game. There is no debate here. A spec that has garbage utility. The ONLY thing frost has going for it is damage...and it's near dead last in that category. The devs should be embarrassed. In a job where there was actually accountability all of them would have been fired.

[rated]

I find it quite baffling, myself. We're talking about a spec that has the worst mobility in the game. There is no debate here. A spec that has garbage utility. The ONLY thing frost has going for it is damage...and it's near dead last in that category. The devs should be embarrassed. In a job where there was actually accountability all of them would have been fired.

It's hard to balance stuff when they constantly keep changing everything.

[RuneDK]

It's hard to balance stuff when they constantly keep changing everything.

Yes and No. That's what they get paid to do...so they should actually considering trying. The issue more is, the artifact system. They chose to go this direction, which means they should have realized that they need to keep all specs within balance(5-10% from top to bottom). You're more locked into a spec than ever before. Granted later in the expansion when Research levels are absurdly high, we can all laugh and drink hot chocolate together because leveling an artifact later on will be a joke. However we're not at that point.

[exriel]

If a Frost DK is topping the charts he is either overgeared or your other dps players are not up to par skillwise. Assuming equal skill and ilvl It's not right that you execute your rotation at 90% efficiency and get beat by 20%+ damage by others just because they picked x or y spec. That's terrible game balance and it is NOT okay. That's FDK's current situation. You don't have to be in a world class guild to deserve your spec to be able to compete.

That is precisely my point. Outside the very tippy top of the player base, individual player skill is much greater factor in performance that the theoretical potential of the class.

That is a separate discussion from whether or not Frost DK needs to be tuned up. I have never suggested the spec is fine and that it shouldn't be adjusted. I am merely suggesting that pre-judging a player for the spec they chose is a mistake. Let the results speak for themselves. If Frost is truly as bad as this thread believes it to be, then you all have nothing to worry about since that Frost DK has no chance of beating someone, right?

[Coffeh]

If Frost is truly as bad as this thread believes it to be, then you all have nothing to worry about since that Frost DK has no chance of beating someone, right?

It's not what people believe. The numbers speak for themselves. Frost is terrible dps. And I'm not sure what you mean by nothing to worry about. In any kind of real progression guild the spec's lack of damage means you won't get a spot. In a really casual guild of noobs (apparently like yours if a frost dk is topping charts)...who cares? Apparently a retarded monkey could perform well.

[Dracovian]

That is a separate discussion from whether or not Frost DK needs to be tuned up. I have never suggested the spec is fine and that it shouldn't be adjusted. I am merely suggesting that pre-judging a player for the spec they chose is a mistake. Let the results speak for themselves. If Frost is truly as bad as this thread believes it to be, then you all have nothing to worry about since that Frost DK has no chance of beating someone, right?

Having a Frost is detrimental to a raid team. You are better off not having a Frost player and running it with one less dps. There is no judging here. I experienced it first hand. You can also go check the numbers yourself.

As for your question, this is Blizzard we are talking about here, Frost IS that bad and there IS cause for concern becuase they could just as well nerf Unholy and leave Frost untouched.

[exriel]

It's not what people believe. The numbers speak for themselves. Frost is terrible dps. And I'm not sure what you mean by nothing to worry about. In any kind of real progression guild the spec's lack of damage means you won't get a spot. In a really casual guild of noobs (apparently like yours if a frost dk is topping charts)...who cares? Apparently a retarded monkey could perform well.

Again, my point exactly. There are about ~150 "real" progression guilds in the world. If you're posting here, you probably aren't in one of them. I know I don't have the time for that.

[Lucrece]

How comes you find Unholy unfun? Its so much more fun that Frost...

Some people enjoy less bloated specs.

Take for example, demonhunter. Not a lot of buttons or debuffs/pandemic to keep track off, but the spec offers a different challenge in managing movement without going out of melee range and losing melee uptime or landing in crap that will get you killed in a raid.

Not everyone enjoys having to set up 7+ weak auras just to play a spec optimally.

There's also the fact that many people don't want to micromanage and have multiple macros for a pet, and if you're going to do well with unholy you NEED to manage your pet correctly, such as placing it in the center of mobs instead of attacking a mob on the edges so its 360 aoe hits all the possible mobs, managing your abomination's hook for utility, etc.

[exriel]

Having a Frost is detrimental to a raid team. You are better off not having a Frost player and running it with one less dps. There is no judging here. I experienced it first hand. You can also go check the numbers yourself.

As for your question, this is Blizzard we are talking about here, Frost IS that bad and there IS cause for concern becuase they could just as well nerf Unholy and leave Frost untouched.

Sure, if the player isn't performing in the raid, then remove them or whatever. Don't remove them before they get a chance to prove their worth. What other players do in other raids tells me very little about how the players in my raid will perform. Executing mechanics is vastly more important than raw DPS anyway.

[Coldvibes]

The whole situation fucking sucks because even as an Unholy DK ATM, I enjoy all specs of my DK and am willing to swap to the better performing one at a moment's notice.

Frost is literally so bad that the size of the buff they give it would very likely make it stronger than UH or Blizzard has to really fucking try to make it very slightly worse than UH post buffs due to players' investment already into their Unholy weapons. Nobody wins.

[Dracovian]

The whole situation fucking sucks because even as an Unholy DK ATM, I enjoy all specs of my DK and am willing to swap to the better performing one at a moment's notice.

Frost is literally so bad that the size of the buff they give it would very likely make it stronger than UH or Blizzard has to really fucking try to make it very slightly worse than UH post buffs due to players' investment already into their Unholy weapons. Nobody wins.

Frost is indeed in a very bad spot because there are so many things that need addressing but I don't think a numbers buff would be enough. The artifact or Obliterate need some sort of rework. We'll see what the patch brings.

[pies1]

The whole expansion is a clusterfuck from a balance perspective. Bad luck on legendaries? You're fucked. Bad luck on relics? You're fucked. Your spec gets nerfed? Enjoy your shit artifact, no legendaries and shit relics.

[Dracovian]

The whole expansion is a clusterfuck from a balance perspective. Bad luck on legendaries? You're fucked. Bad luck on relics? You're fucked. Your spec gets nerfed? Enjoy your shit artifact, no legendaries and shit relics.

There's so much riding on the next balance patch. I hope they do it properly.

[Helwinter]

I'd honestly quite like to transition back to Frost for a bit from Unholy - I'm 21 UH (and, 30k to 22) / 13 Blood / 13 Frost.

I'm not going to be surprised when Frost gets a gigantic buff and I switch back half cocked and weak from AP.

I will be devastated though.

I suspect Blizzard will look at the population of DPS DKs, and their investment in UH vs Frost, and decide to give Frost minimal buffs so it

- remains bottom quartile...
- but is not totally abysmal

[Pantelija]

. To me that isn't fun, it feels more like a Warlock with DOTS. .

Unholy was always designed as melee lock with dots, even during early wotlk beta testing Unholy had several dots + a big one that is usable from a proc that behaves like warlocks UA right now (small duration big damage and boosts other DoT damage, this was later turned to passive Ebonplague talent that boosts disease damage by 30%)

When it comes to Frost it seems Blizzard didnt know what to do so they added random things to it and hoped it would work out in some magical way, for example when Remorseless Winter and Hungering Weapon(or Winter i forgot the exact name) had exactly the same effects so instead of changing one of them Blizzard just decided to remove one and add talents to Remorseless Winter.

As someone has pointed out Frost is not alone as there are other specs like Destro and Demo lock and others so i guess people will have to wait until next major patch to fix things.

[XScorpion2]

Bleh, spent most of the night trying to get into Emerald Nightmare normal raids (853 ilvl, 20 alvl, optimized stats, fully enchanted, the works) and booted from every last one for being Frost... fun times =\

[Bisque]

so frost dks whta is the plan next tuesday if no fixes/buffs? Go unholy, reroll DH etc...? I am bloody grasping at straws here,the data is there,the suggestion on how to fix frost are there-if nothing tuesday, if frost is left on the cold (hahah...)until 7.1 then Idk.... I would at least hope for a blue post addressing frost dks, warlocks got something, I am sure frost will get something to.

[Freedom]

Bleh, spent most of the night trying to get into Emerald Nightmare normal raids (753 ilvl, 20 alvl, optimized stats, fully enchanted, the works) and booted from every last one for being Frost... fun times =\

Being Frost is a luxury for someone who doesn't have to PUG. If I hadn't had a relaxed guild going into this expansion, no way in fuck would I have gone Frost. I would have gone Unholy, and been okay, or gone Fury, and been similarly fucked. Shit I'd probably just have gone Blood - I hardly DPS right now anyways.

[XScorpion2]

so frost dks whta is the plan next tuesday if no fixes/buffs? Go unholy, reroll DH etc...? I am bloody grasping at straws here,the data is there,the suggestion on how to fix frost are there-if nothing tuesday, if frost is left on the cold (hahah...)until 7.1 then Idk.... I would at least hope for a blue post addressing frost dks, warlocks got something, I am sure frost will get something to.

Honestly the damage of the logs from this first week will have frost dk's shunned for weeks / months to come. If you are grasping at straws now, you might want to change now. I'd suggest Enhancement Shaman or Outlaw Rogue if you are looking for something bursty and high dps.

[XScorpion2]

Hehe for shits and giggles: ran mythic+ as unholy, with my artifact at rank 0 and only 2 of 3 relic slots filled. Pulled on avg the same if nor a bit higher DPS.

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