Arms Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

The current SimC APL hasn't used FR/MS outside BC in execute range since the FR nerf.

Well shit this explains something.

Go me.

[Xanthan]

I'm not sure if simcraft is showing Gift of Radiance damage correctly. Simcraft shows it hitting for an average of 81k hit and 160k crit, but in-game it's hitting as hard as my slam (340k~ crit under Avatar and CS debuff). Is it worth using GoR over a high ilvl stat stick as long as you use GoR under BC and CS debuff vs getting 2% more mastery and higher strength?

It doesn't benefit from CS debuff in SimC at the moment. Since it does benefit from it in game, it should be pretty trivial for you to figure out how much damage contribution it actually provides and compare that to a stat stick. You may also want to modify the APL to only use it when BC/CS is up, since that's when you'd clearly want to do it.

[Deleted]

Looking at my logs, the pot's duration is 25 seconds and mirrors 100% of my damage (?). I'm not really sure about the damage part, since I haven't used warcraftlogs in a long time, but the highest hit the pot triggered was at 1,1million, which could have been a mortal strike.

But on the topic of getting pots and flask for normal/heroic: I really don't think it's worth the price.
I only used 7 pots, since I got them for free from Battleground caches and wanted to test them.

Yeah I tested one on a dummy. Seems kinda strange to me but it adds ALOT. Since I'm herb/alch I farm some and try them out. We kinda struggled at xavius with our group since we only have 1 ranged DD and the rest are melees, wiped like 3 times on 2%. We also didn't have enough damage for the dream phases the adds would spawn at 66% boss hp instead of the 60% when the dream starts. I basicly have to carry 2 mates of mine since they are not that geared right now. So I'll be getting some flasks and some pots to make it easier. We got one fishing fan so we have food for days atleast.

[Archimtiros]

It doesn't benefit from CS debuff in SimC at the moment. Since it does benefit from it in game, it should be pretty trivial for you to figure out how much damage contribution it actually provides and compare that to a stat stick. You may also want to modify the APL to only use it when BC/CS is up, since that's when you'd clearly want to do it.

We're actually discovering a lot of trinkets and other gear have (unintended?) side effects which do this. For example, Old War pots are benefitting from the CS debuff, which is one reason they're so strong for Arms. A whole lot of trinkets are also benefitting from things like Enhancement Shaman mastery, making them much stronger than they otherwise would be.

[barackohmama]

Wait, didnt they already nerf arms ST once? FR down to from 50% per application to 40% just a week ago. Would be kinda wierd if they nerfed it again so shortly afterwards. Also while arms ST is good, its not like it is extremely OP compared to classes like Sp or outlaw rogues. It has been alot worse in previous expansions where rogues and mages did the double st damage of other classes.

[Deleted]

We're actually discovering a lot of trinkets and other gear have (unintended?) side effects which do this. For example, Old War pots are benefitting from the CS debuff, which is one reason they're so strong for Arms. A whole lot of trinkets are also benefitting from things like Enhancement Shaman mastery, making them much stronger than they otherwise would be.

SimC hasn't had trinkets benefit form BC/CS? Wasn't this obvious from day 1?

[cFortyfive]

I don't think you know what the word balance means.

Well it certainly isn't every warrior spec being required to be as bad as fury :P

[wrastor]

The current SimC APL hasn't used FR/MS outside BC in execute range since the FR nerf.

What exactly do you do in execute phase? I'm reading thru the APL and am bit confused. Do we spam Execute until we can Battle Cry, also meaning we just auto attack most of the time?

[Archimtiros]

Wait, didnt they already nerf arms ST once? FR down to from 50% per application to 40% just a week ago. Would be kinda wierd if they nerfed it again so shortly afterwards. Also while arms ST is good, its not like it is extremely OP compared to classes like Sp or outlaw rogues. It has been alot worse in previous expansions where rogues and mages did the double st damage of other classes.

You're kidding right? The nerf was incredibly minor, and go look at any of the logs coming out of this week and you'll see exactly how OP Arms is.

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SimC hasn't had trinkets benefit form BC/CS? Wasn't this obvious from day 1?

That's not what I said, nor how it was phrased. Traditionally a lot of direct damage trinkets don't crit or benefit from specific buffs such as CS, so it's not exactly intuitive to think they should. Likewise, there isn't exactly a vendor list of trinkets, so testing the things isn't something one or two people can reliably do on their own.

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Well it certainly isn't every warrior spec being required to be as bad as fury :P

And nobody said it should be, nor has anyone implied that Arms should be nerfed down to the level of Fury. However, anyone who thinks Arms isn't overperforming is quite simply delusional.

[Deleted]

That's not what I said, nor how it was phrased. Traditionally a lot of direct damage trinkets don't crit or benefit from specific buffs such as CS, so it's not exactly intuitive to think they should. Likewise, there isn't exactly a vendor list of trinkets, so testing the things isn't something one or two people can reliably do on their own.

Yes nice roundabout answer you sure are a master of the oral arts. How about just answer the question?

[cFortyfive]

However, anyone who thinks Arms isn't overperforming is quite simply delusional.

In comparison to the bottom specs like fury certainly.

[nativity]

In comparison to the bottom specs like fury certainly.

Anyway, a tuning pass will come next week, Fury will definitely need quite a bump in dps and FR prob might get nerfed by another 5%-10%

[thefatty01]

In comparison to the bottom specs like fury certainly.

I've done well with fury. Just because it isn't r1 like FR doesn't mean its bad. I go Fury for a few fights too. I like the options

[Rafalga]

it looks like this threads has more Fury mains then Arms lately lol

[Anbokr]

it looks like this threads has more Fury mains then Arms lately lol

I think warrior is one of the few classes where there is a lot of overlap on the specs. We're OK with bouncing back and forth with our specs, lots of other classes lock in. I enjoy both a lot.

[Archimtiros]

Yes nice roundabout answer you sure are a master of the oral arts. How about just answer the question?

How about you not ask obnoxious questions? I already said no, it wasn't clear from day one, because I didn't have access to every trinket in the game to specifically test for it, as I stated above. As also stated, traditionally a lot of direct damage trinkets, such as the one in question, don't crit or interact with class specific damage increasing stats, so no, it wasn't specifically looked for.

I answered your question (twice), so what more do you want? Neither SimC nor class theorycrafting is an exact science; especially when evaluating things like trinkets, it's the result of repeated trial and error that is refined over time. This is one such refinement.

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In comparison to the bottom specs like fury certainly.

In comparison with any spec that isn't 6 buff outlaw, or maybe well-played Feral, certainly.

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I think warrior is one of the few classes where there is a lot of overlap on the specs. We're OK with bouncing back and forth with our specs, lots of other classes lock in. I enjoy both a lot.

The problem is that really doesn't work well with the concept of Artifact Power, relics, or spec-specific legendaries. The whole point of these systems was to reinforce spec identity over class identity, but that's something that doesn't work when players feel the need to only play one spec, or even both/all three specs due to performance.

[cFortyfive]

In comparison with any spec that isn't 6 buff outlaw, or maybe well-played Feral, certainly.

Well unless we're talking ursoc only there are a couple missing there for the moment.

I've done well with fury. Just because it isn't r1 like FR doesn't mean its bad. I go Fury for a few fights too. I like the options

Obviously matter of opinion. Looks to me as if fury performs damage wise below most other melee specs, lacks the explosive aoe of certain leather melees and doesn't offer anything special in terms of defensive cooldowns. It's probably not the worst spec and certainly not unplayable but still bottom tier.

[OldGod]

I don't think you know what the word balance means.

Maybe. But I'm sure that you are not a dev (yet) and it's not an Arms warrior role begging for balance because of our good dps.

[Saiona]

Woo think I did 340k tonight on heroic ursoc. Everyone else was like 60k or 70k below me. We 2 shot it though wasted our vantus runes. can't us

[ceejay]

Could really use some help with the rotation. Just swapped from Prot to Arms as my guild had too many tanks. Not very excited about it, but so far I am really struggling. I have gone back several pages trying to figure out the rotation, but would someone mind posting it?

Inside BC rotation

Outside BC rotation

Inside BC rotation (execute)

Outside BC rotation (execute)

Thanks!