[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[OrcsRLame]

I'll be shocked if Execution Sentence doesn't get a buff when they next do tuning.

That would make sense. So I give it a 5% chance of happening.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'll be shocked if Execution Sentence doesn't get a buff when they next do tuning.

why would they?

[Deleted]

Retribution Passive isn't part of Ret's balancing, it's a bonus as Celestalon mentioned in the Theorycrafting Thread during beta, I don't think they might touch it. At least not for it's damage dealing part.
It would probably be enough to buff Sword of Light to 10-12%. We don't know the "median" Blizzard wants to achieve with DPS. Therefore I expect nerfs and buffs to almost everyone xD

[Fruit]

hey guys, i was simming my ret Mom-kelthuzad us, and noticed that zeal has higher single target dps than fires of justice? is anyone else getting this?

[Vanderhuge]

If anything, Ret needs power moved from Ashbringer to baseline abilities (35% DS damage off the artifact is downright insane) and a massive Mastery buff (definitely a buff for the paltry 12% it gives as a minimum to finishers).

[exriel]

why would they?

Because it's underperforming on both single target and AoE compared to Final Verdict once you unlock your second golden trait. Not that this is a guarantee of anything, but one of Blizzard's stated design goals is that active DPS talents on the same tier as passive ones should perform better.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If anything, Ret needs power moved from Ashbringer to baseline abilities (35% DS damage off the artifact is downright insane) and a massive Mastery buff (definitely a buff for the paltry 12% it gives as a minimum to finishers).

it's 45% actually

Yeah, mastery should've been desirable, I suppose, but instead we avoid it almost like plague.

Because it's underperforming on both single target and AoE compared to Final Verdict once you unlock your second golden trait. Not that this is a guarantee of anything, but one of Blizzard's stated design goals is that active DPS talents on the same tier as passive ones should perform better.

I agree with your logic.
I mean, look at Concecration - you would be insane to pick it, it isn't even a dps gain and has no place in rotation wahtsoever.
But it's bzzd and Retribution we're talking about.

Hence my question still stands: why would they ?

[exriel]

it's 45% actually

Yeah, mastery should've been desirable, I suppose, but instead we avoid it almost like plague.

I agree with your logic.
I mean, look at Concecration - you would be insane to pick it, it isn't even a dps gain and has no place in rotation wahtsoever.
But it's bzzd and Retribution we're talking about.

Hence my question still stands: why would they ?

Yeah, consecration is harder to evaluate because I think it's meant to be the sustain AoE talent, but there are no fights that require sustained AoE damage right now. If I were doing the tuning, I think I would give a small buff to Mastery and a relatively larger buff to ES, but really just enough to make ES > FV on single target.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Yeah, consecration is harder to evaluate because I think it's meant to be the sustain AoE talent, but there are no fights that require sustained AoE damage right now. If I were doing the tuning, I think I would give a small buff to Mastery and a relatively larger buff to ES, but really just enough to make ES > FV on single target.

main problem with ES is that it complicates rotation for no reason beyond complicating rotation, does not work with DP procs, and sucks big black shaft in PvP, while getting no bonuses from Artifact at all.

[gusty jack]

main problem with ES is that it complicates rotation for no reason beyond complicating rotation, does not work with DP procs, and sucks big black shaft in PvP, while getting no bonuses from Artifact at all.

Plus it's just a straight up stupid fucking mechanic. Nobody likes Doom-esque DoTs, and they were only bearable when they hit like mack trucks.

[Lumineus]

So, it bases its damage from the base non crit damage of the TV with judgement, but it can crit. Always seems to do just a tiny bit shy of the 10% though.

Could be that Sword of Light doesn't apply to it for w/e reason

[Gio]

Got my ashbringer to level 22 and finally got Echo of the HIghlord should i never use JV again and talent for eye for an eye? btw i took the long route so TV its pretty much finished

[Vanderhuge]

Totally blanked on Echo

Got my ashbringer to level 22 and finally got Echo of the HIghlord should i never use JV again and talent for eye for an eye? btw i took the long route so TV its pretty much finished

It's still very useful in Mythic+ where you can stun/nuke down priority trash.

[Deleted]

My prediction: 5% Buff to ret's single target damage. No direct buffs to AoE, but Divine Purpose back to 20%. Retribution passive reduced to 5% damage and 10% DR.

While that would be better than what is on live, it would probably make no difference. Atm the parses are inflated by the retribution passive. It represents about those 5% of our damage you are shaving off from it.

I'm ok with the nerf of retribution passive. Its not something we can rely on, but the buff needs to take it into account. So, in the case at hand, i'd say a 10% buff to damage would be necessary (assuming the passive nerf) just to get a net gain of 5%.

Though with that said, i don't think 5% is enough. I really wish they caved in and made judgment a buff though. Because while it liger in this form, we will never be sucessful at target switching.
Heck why don't they just add a passive that resets judgment's cd if the target its on is killed before it expires? I'd even take the loss of the 2nd target hit for it.

[OrcsRLame]

While that would be better than what is on live, it would probably make no difference. Atm the parses are inflated by the retribution passive. It represents about those 5% of our damage you are shaving off from it.

I'm ok with the nerf of retribution passive. Its not something we can rely on, but the buff needs to take it into account. So, in the case at hand, i'd say a 10% buff to damage would be necessary (assuming the passive nerf) just to get a net gain of 5%.

Though with that said, i don't think 5% is enough. I really wish they caved in and made judgment a buff though. Because while it liger in this form, we will never be sucessful at target switching.
Heck why don't they just add a passive that resets judgment's cd if the target its on is killed before it expires? I'd even take the loss of the 2nd target hit for it.

Just so we're clear, these are not the changes I want lol. Just the changes I expect. I'm being cynical.

[Gio]

Totally blanked on Echo



It's still very useful in Mythic+ where you can stun/nuke down priority trash.

ok but in raid i should ignore JV right?

[snackfeat]

ok but in raid i should ignore JV right?

Definitely.

[arrav]

Definitely.

That's a shame, I dug the small change up in the rotation.

[Vintersol]

Leveled my paladin to 110 last night. While it's fun to play to a degree it's freaking annoying not having solid AoE. Especially if you have an unholy dk on max.

[Vuagnon]

Looks like prot will be in a better spot than ret both in pve and pvp.