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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    She wasn't passed out in her own vomit and many DUI drivers are black out drunk. So if you're blacked out and drive drunk it's ok? Personal responsibility takes a huge role here. While you're blacked out, a lot of other people do not know you're blacked out. Blacked out and passed out are NOT the same thing. I've blacked out a few times recently and nobody else knew I had because I function and interact exactly the same as do most people.

    So stop lying and saying she was passed out. She was not. She was fully conscious. She just lacked the capacity to recall the situation.
    I blacked out once, and all my friends knew I had blacked out. Either your buddies don't know you as well as they should, or you're just a really dumb drunk. See what I did there, I made a statement rife with assumptions on your situation and I don't even know you!

    The accomplices distracted her friend, just so the dudes could take advantage of her. If what you're doing to the person is so bad, that her friend wouldn't let you do it, that's a pretty clear indicator you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. She did the right thing, and brought a person she trusted to take care of her. By your logic, the sexual assault of a child is perfectly fine, as long as they were willing. Statutory rape shouldn't be illegal then? The child is not capable of making the decision, same as a drunk / drugged person.

    The simplest analogy is this: Stealing. Is it right to steal something from someone, because they are too drunk to know you are stealing from them? If I ask my really drunk friend if I can take the 600$ out of his wallet, that's stealing, because I know damn well he is incapable of making that decision coherently.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakoth View Post
    I blacked out once, and all my friends knew I had blacked out. Either your buddies don't know you as well as they should, or you're just a really dumb drunk. See what I did there, I made a statement rife with assumptions on your situation and I don't even know you!

    The accomplices distracted her friend, just so the dudes could take advantage of her. If what you're doing to the person is so bad, that her friend wouldn't let you do it, that's a pretty clear indicator you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. She did the right thing, and brought a person she trusted to take care of her. By your logic, the sexual assault of a child is perfectly fine, as long as they were willing. Statutory rape shouldn't be illegal then? The child is not capable of making the decision, same as a drunk / drugged person.

    The simplest analogy is this: Stealing. Is it right to steal something from someone, because they are too drunk to know you are stealing from them? If I ask my really drunk friend if I can take the 600$ out of his wallet, that's stealing, because I know damn well he is incapable of making that decision coherently.
    You're going to have a really hard time explaining consent on these forums, last thread these issues cropped up there was a guy proudly recalling how he had raped his unconscious wife several times. Lots of right-wingers here now who believe that might makes right and the only consent that matters is their own.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

  3. #23
    I kind of feel like these threads are less discussions on consent and more FAQs for the creepers on how rapetastic they can get away with being.

  4. #24
    Okay...this was apparently a pretty clear cut rape case, the police was called, rape kit was taken, dude was arrested and sentenced.

    The only thing that confuses me is why it took 3 years to test the kit. But yeah...

    The dudes in this story sound like grade A assholes, even if it wasn't rape (and it seems pretty fucking clear cut that it was), they are the kind of shitheads that make 99% of other men who aren't like them look bad.

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyxo View Post
    I kind of feel like these threads are less discussions on consent and more FAQs for the creepers on how rapetastic they can get away with being.
    Considering the audience you're probably not too far off the mark.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

  6. #26
    Jonas Dick

    What a name.......

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    If you can't be held accountable for the sex you have while drunk, you shouldn't be held accountable for a DUI since you were too drunk to know what you were doing there either.
    How often do people who are passed out get into a car and drive off?

  8. #28
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Sounds like a crime was committed, the perps were found guilty and sentenced?

    What am I missing?
    An underlying claim of causality?

  9. #29
    8 years seem pretty damn light for 2 counts of rape, and possibly more...

  10. #30
    The Insane Revi's Avatar
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    After reading most of the article, 8 years seems too light. They sound almost like a cult, where their whole lives revolved around getting drunk girls back to their apartment and ignoring any resistance. Even moving in together to be closer to drunk women.

    Messed up.

  11. #31
    this is very scary, i have gone out in that area where they were preying on people!

    it is pretty sick that these guys were teaching others to be like them. Seems like the darker parts of the internet are leaking out into irl. If a person gets a certain behavior & thinking reinforced over and over eventually they will act on it...

  12. #32
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    You're going to have a really hard time explaining consent on these forums, last thread these issues cropped up there was a guy proudly recalling how he had raped his unconscious wife several times. Lots of right-wingers here now who believe that might makes right and the only consent that matters is their own.
    Yeah, I was going to say, if you're looking for a place to restore your faith in humanity, this forum is not the place.

    According to this forum, if you're drunk, you've automatically consented to whatever. Cause you were stupid and got drunk.
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  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Facing their inner demon is a pretty uncomfortable subject for most men.
    yes, because this relates to me in some way.
    There are evil people, those people have vaginas as well as dicks.
    If you think otherwise, you are just being sexist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    You're going to have a really hard time explaining consent on these forums,
    It helps if you understand it Espe.
    last thread these issues cropped up there was a guy proudly recalling how he had raped his unconscious wife several times.
    Did she object?
    That is literally all.
    Lots of right-wingers here now who believe that might makes right and the only consent that matters is their own.
    please stop using right wing as a pejorative, and more importantly, realize that your definition of 'right wing' is not reflective of reality.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    You're going to have a really hard time explaining consent on these forums, last thread these issues cropped up there was a guy proudly recalling how he had raped his unconscious wife several times. Lots of right-wingers here now who believe that might makes right and the only consent that matters is their own.
    Yeah right wingers here are fine with rape. That's why most right wingers support harsher sentences for rapists while most leftists prefer lower incarceration rates for everyone.

    I don't support harsher sentences myself but conflating acceptance of rape and skepticism of a rape epidemic with a lot of gray area is nothing more than you being intellectually dishonest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    According to this forum, if you're drunk, you've automatically consented to whatever. Cause you were stupid and got drunk.
    I didn't realize we were a hive mind. I guess the fact that I'm a part of these forums (for a better or for worse) makes me a proud member of Sigma Alpha Epsilon.

  15. #35
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I didn't realize we were a hive mind. I guess the fact that I'm a part of these forums (for a better or for worse) makes me a proud member of Sigma Alpha Epsilon.
    *points*

    Then make it clear you disagree. Because there have been several posters here who are victim blaming in the extreme.
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  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    *points*

    Then make it clear you disagree. Because there have been several posters here who are victim blaming in the extreme.
    Pointing out that the legal definition of 'to drunk to consent' is Barely conscious, is not victim blaming.
    It is quite possible to be so drunk you wont remember anything while still being cognizant enough (by far) to be able to consent.
    So putative person A, who wakes up not remembering anything about last night, Cant know if they were raped or not, because the part of their brain that processes memories shuts down before the other parts.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    *points*

    Then make it clear you disagree. Because there have been several posters here who are victim blaming in the extreme.
    I can't make it clear that I disagree because nothing about consent in rape is black and white.

    I don't condone a man having sex with an unconscious woman, I know that for sure but I also don't have much sympathy when the woman knowingly hangs out with men they don't know while drinking themselves into a stupor.

    As I've gotten older, I have had less and less sympathy for people who put themselves in bad situations.

  18. #38
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra;42459203[B
    ]I can't make it clear that I disagree because nothing about consent in rape is black and white.[/B]

    I don't condone a man having sex with an unconscious woman, I know that for sure but I also don't have much sympathy when the woman knowingly hangs out with men they don't know while drinking themselves into a stupor.

    As I've gotten older, I have had less and less sympathy for people who put themselves in bad situations.
    Pretty much this.

    There's really no point in playing this dichtomony game. You can't appease these people because you disagree on a fundamental level, and they'll misconstrue that disagreement into something it isn't.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    Pointing out that the legal definition of 'to drunk to consent' is Barely conscious, is not victim blaming.
    It is quite possible to be so drunk you wont remember anything while still being cognizant enough (by far) to be able to consent.
    Not relevant to this case. She wasn't barely conscious. She was unconscious.

  20. #40
    If you've listened to "pick up artists" for more than five seconds you should not be in the least surprised to discover some of them are out and out rapists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Sounds like a crime was committed, the perps were found guilty and sentenced?

    What am I missing?
    I'm guessing social context, relevance and significance.
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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