No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Ordinator]

Go ahead and take the cookie then. You earned it.

SYKE!

Not in this patch.

You missed the point where i said this stuff comes naturally just by playing the game. I'm not crying for a cookie like fly babies are.

[OGXanos]

20% but if youre a Pally of DK, dont bother, it wont stack with existing mount speed increase.

Another of the 500+ issues brought up in beta that was never addressed.

Right but account wide right? so worth it for alts.

[Ordinator]

OK, fair enough. No idea how one does that in 3 weeks "without trying", but here you go.

As for the flying quote of "literally everyone" - I joined here in 2008. There have been a lot of complain and QQ thread about everything and anything on MMO C. But never about how flying sucked and anyone wants it removed. This whole thing started with WoD when there was NO flying at max level initially and then people came out to debate it.

There were a couple flying sucks threads here and there. Just like there are a couple threads about people crying about no flying.

[bufferunderrun]

OK, fair enough. No idea how one does that in 3 weeks "without trying", but here you go.

As for the flying quote of "literally everyone" - I joined here in 2008. There have been a lot of complain and QQ thread about everything and anything on MMO C. But never about how flying sucked and anyone wants it removed. This whole thing started with WoD when there was NO flying at max level initially and then people came out to debate it.

dude no fly is a textbook example of bandwagon along with the hate threads on lfr and lfg.

[SirCowdog]

At the end of the day, I wish I could enter a parallel gaming universe where WoW never allowed flying.

Right now it is kinda hard to relearn the Classic time of not being able to fly and cope with it.

And what about the solution that involves mixed zones of flying and non-flying areas, with actual parity between the choice of using a ground or air mount?

[Hexxidecimal]

OK, fair enough. No idea how one does that in 3 weeks "without trying", but here you go.

As for the flying quote of "literally everyone" - I joined here in 2008. There have been a lot of complain and QQ thread about everything and anything on MMO C. But never about how flying sucked and anyone wants it removed. This whole thing started with WoD when there was NO flying at max level initially and then people came out to debate it.

I think the "without trying" part is without specifically trying to grind up those reps for the express purpose of that achievement. But I am mostly in the same boat. The only faction I am a little behind on is The Wardens, and not by much there. You do world quests and emissary dailies and it's a cinch to get all the rep.

[Dhrizzle]

I think it might be more fair to say that people were simply relieved that flying was returned to WoD in ANY form after being threatened with complete and total removal. And just because they're willing to accept it in its current form doesn't mean that Pathfinder can't stand to be improved further. I think that's a point a lot of people tend to miss.

Actually, I think a lot of people constantly fall to complacency with ALL aspects of WoW. If there's one thing this thread has taught me, it's that very VERY few people are willing to look past what's right in front of them. The saying "Think three steps ahead." just doesn't seem to apply very often.

My point is this mass of "pro-flyers" didn't make themselves heard when Blizz announced there would no flight at the start of WoD, they didn't make themselves heard when Blizz announced flight would not come in 6.1 and it was only when Blizz announced there would be no flight at all that these "pro-flyers" gave loud enough feedback for Blizz to revert their position.

Then, when Blizz announced the same system would be use for Legion, again the mass of "pro-flyers" seemed happy/content/complacent.

[SirCowdog]

You mean like MoP? Where the "zones that mattered" were non-flying? IoT and TI? Yeah, I liked that.

I was thinking more along the lines of having "zones that matter" in equal amounts. This idea that the only way to make a zone that has importance or decent gameplay is to do it without flying is a pet-project of someone at Blizzard. It is far from impossible from a technical standpoint.


- - - Updated - - -

Indeed, I suppose people are bit agitated right now because everything doesn't fall in their laps. But if the unlocking of flying takes as long as for WoD we will have plenty of time to meet the requirements

I may be the exception(I doubt it), but I think it has more to do with the reward being completely out of line with the amount of work involved. In previous expansions attunement quests to enter raids didn't even involve this many tasks. And what happens when flight is finally unlocked? You only really get to use it on alts and novelty content because everything else has already been completed.

- - - Updated - - -

My point is this mass of "pro-flyers" didn't make themselves heard when Blizz announced there would no flight at the start of WoD, they didn't make themselves heard when Blizz announced flight would not come in 6.1 and it was only when Blizz announced there would be no flight at all that these "pro-flyers" gave loud enough feedback for Blizz to revert their position.

Then, when Blizz announced the same system would be use for Legion, again the mass of "pro-flyers" seemed happy/content/complacent.

I'm not sure if you weren't around when the idea first started being floated by Blizzard, or what. But there was a pretty massive amount of disapproval for the idea from the WoD all the way through WoD live. Blizzard ignored it, deleted threads en-masse, and avoided posting information about no-flying on their official site. They appeared to do everything in their power to push the concept through despite the negative responses from people. And when it went live, they continued to mislead people about when flying would return.

I don't claim to know exactly how large the number of people is that did or didn't like No-Flying, but the way Blizzard handled the situation speaks to me that they didn't care one way or another. They were going to do it regardless of what people thought. In 6.2 people were so starved for ANYTHING new that of course pathfinder was welcomed. The fact that we even get flying back at all, at this point, is still only half the fight, and I think people are still heavily distracted by how new Legion is to really be objective about the situation.

[Dhrizzle]

I'm not sure if you weren't around when the idea first started being floated by Blizzard, or what. But there was a pretty massive amount of disapproval for the idea from the WoD all the way through WoD live. Blizzard ignored it, deleted threads en-masse, and avoided posting information about no-flying on their official site. They appeared to do everything in their power to push the concept through despite the negative responses from people. And when it went live, they continued to mislead people about when flying would return.

I don't claim to know exactly how large the number of people is that did or didn't like No-Flying, but the way Blizzard handled the situation speaks to me that they didn't care one way or another. They were going to do it regardless of what people thought. In 6.2 people were so starved for ANYTHING new that of course pathfinder was welcomed. The fact that we even get flying back at all, at this point, is still only half the fight, and I think people are still heavily distracted by how new Legion is to really be objective about the situation.

The thing is Blizz know to tune out "forum noise," there might be a healthy amount of disapproval but the same goes for almost anything they do. If Blizz did respond to forum noise they'd probably have deleted LFG and LFR by now despite it being a very popular feature.

So whatever noise was being generated by "pro-flight" people was obviously outweighed by the response they saw in the game and the noise generated by "anti-flight" people. From their decision to go from "flying later" to "no flight again" I'm guessing the in-game response was better than they expected. Then when they reverted that decision I assume they started getting negative feedback from sources that were either positive or neutral on the matter.

Whatever the case, I think it's fair to say that Blizzard have a better idea of player feedback than some random folks reading forums so the only real indicator of how players are responding to features is to see if Blizz keeps or removes them.

Either that or you can throw out a bunch of ad hominem claiming that Blizz devs are just being spiteful and ignorant.

[MoanaLisa]

And what about the solution that involves mixed zones of flying and non-flying areas, with actual parity between the choice of using a ground or air mount?

It's a solution, like all of your solutions, that Blizzard has rejected up to this point and is showing no signs of changing their minds. We've had this conversation half a dozen times about Blizzard being unlikely to change their minds about Pathfinder. There is zero evidence that they are even paying attention to it any longer. Whatever their losses over flying they have absorbed them and have moved on. You know this.

More to your point though, I very much doubt that if one of the Legion zones allowed flying and the others didn't if it would change anything. I know exactly who would say that 'solution' was a slap in the face if they did that.

Since I'm writing stuff anyway, I'll reiterate that the reaction over flying's removal clearly influenced Blizzard to eventually bring it back and to make it a meaningful reward and achievement instead of an easy-to-obtain perk. "If people care that much about it let's make them work for it." Classic case of embedding incentive for something players think is important into the game.

[SirCowdog]

Either that or you can throw out a bunch of ad hominem claiming that Blizz devs are just being spiteful and ignorant.

Ignorant, no. Spiteful, yes, as evidenced by stupid jabs like the tear-stained flight manual and other instances of needlessly poking at people already angry about losing flight. It's not funny or clever.

And it's not like a person magically becomes an infallible, benevolent being simply because they're a Blizzard dev. They're people, prone to mistakes and confirmation bias just like everyone else. And if you think the decision to remove flight wasn't heavily influenced by confirmation bias, then you're ignoring the evidence.

- - - Updated - - -

... make it a meaningful reward...

My Co-workers gave me weird looks when I laughed out loud at that.

[Mafic]

IMO, the most likely is the subbscriptions to suffer a sharp decline. We will not have access to numbers, of course. (They don´t matter... for WoW: ignore Overwatch, Hearthstone, HoTS, etc).

But players will start to complain about LFR/LFD queues taking so freaking long, assuming they don´t notice the world getting emptier and emptier.

I do wonder if players will sub another month to finish the Legion patchfinder achieve? Or will players just straight up give up and wait it out?

I personally chose not to buy the expansion knowing that the entire integrity of the achievement was compromised from the start. Legion patchfinder is not a Quel'Delar epic quest line, or Fangs of the Father...not by any measure.

- - - Updated - - -

20% but if youre a Pally of DK, dont bother, it wont stack with existing mount speed increase.

Another of the 500+ issues brought up in beta that was never addressed.

This has to be an oversight or a balance issue that the devs are drawing a red hard line with. I think it is silly to be honest that two entire classes can't benefit from an achievement though.

[clevin]

I'm very close to having all the factions to revered without even trying. I got the unique world quest achievement without even knowing I was close to it being complete. These are simple things that finish themselves if you just play the game..

It's not (for me) that they're hard. it's that they have nothing to do with flying. There's ZERO relationship between reps and flight.

I'd be FAR less annoyed by them if they did 2 things:

1) Committed to flight in 7.1. Getting it after the content is done is just a fuck you to the players who want it.
2) Created a long, fun, involving quest chain that gives us a reason for flight not working (easy - the fel intrusion has disrupted the blah blah and interferes with the magic that lets us summon mounts... ) and then has us run all over the world getting things that offset this. Make the chain span all of 7.0 and complete in 7.1


I'd LOVE that. But grinding reps because the team wants to delay flying and is too lazy to create a chain around it? Fuck. That. Shit.

- - - Updated - - -

My point is this mass of "pro-flyers" didn't make themselves heard when Blizz announced there would no flight at the start of WoD, they didn't make themselves heard when Blizz announced flight would not come in 6.1 and it was only when Blizz announced there would be no flight at all that these "pro-flyers" gave loud enough feedback for Blizz to revert their position.

You have to be joking. There was outcry and threads at every point you say there wasn't. You can have your own opinions. Not your own facts.

[Connll]

I do wonder if players will sub another month to finish the Legion patchfinder achieve? Or will players just straight up give up and wait it out?

There are players who said they would buy Legion, get the part 1 of the achieve done, and then unsub until the other parts are in.

And yes, there are players that will feel burned out, will get annoyed by the geography, players getting annoying due to the ever-increasing wait time in queues, etc.

I personally chose not to buy the expansion knowing that the entire integrity of the achievement was compromised from the start. Legion patchfinder is not a Quel'Delar epic quest line, or Fangs of the Father...not by any measure.

Indeed. In fact, now there isn´t even a legendary Quest, is it? Replaced with a pure grind for Artifact Power?

By the way, I heard that there are no plans to continue the Class Hall Campaign for future patches. Is that true?

[MoanaLisa]

My Co-workers gave me weird looks when I laughed out loud at that.

If it's not meaningful as a reward why have you gone on about it for months and for 848 posts as I write this?

- - - Updated - - -

2) Created a long, fun, involving quest chain that gives us a reason for flight not working (easy - the fel intrusion has disrupted the blah blah and interferes with the magic that lets us summon mounts... ) and then has us run all over the world getting things that offset this. Make the chain span all of 7.0 and complete in 7.1.

Applying the legendary quest line treatment to flying is a great idea. I wish they would do this.

[rebecca191]

If a person plays one main character, rarely plays alts, and isn't interested in side things like archeology, or pet battles, or farming things in the world to make gold, there isn't a ton of value left to flying by the time the achievement is done. Because they did all the content they would have used flying for already, and therefore will basically never get to use it because for them, the expansion content is already over and done with. I love all those little side things, I also enjoy leveling alts if I can fly while leveling the alt, so the achievement has value to me, but I won't play the game or start the achievement until there's actually a date in the near future where it's able to be completed and award flying.

There's a reason I had a million alts in Cata, a million alts late in WotLk when they added BoA flying, and even managed to get the two alts I had forced through 85-90 to lv 100 at the end of the brief time I played WoD. MoP, I forced two through. One with pet battles between dungeon queues. One with archeology and Halloween candy buckets. I just couldn't go through the darn continent again without flying. So since I like to level alts and I love to complete every single achievement and do archeology and pet battles the reward would have a use to me. I can see why some people would like to have flying but no longer have a use for it after the achievement is over. So much of the content has to be complete in order to get flying, that it's basically only useful for altoholics and achievement hunters.

- - - Updated - - -

More to your point though, I very much doubt that if one of the Legion zones allowed flying and the others didn't if it would change anything. I know exactly who would say that 'solution' was a slap in the face if they did that.

Well, they did that in MoP. Initial max level content allowed flying, patch content did not. The only flight related complaints I saw were from people who wanted flying for their alts while leveling like in WotLK. I was fine with it other than no alt flying while leveling. I got the few rewards I wanted from the no flying zones and never went back. Could do everything else I wanted, pet battles, archeology, farming things for money, on main continent.

[Connll]

If it's not meaningful as a reward why have you gone on about it for months and for 848 posts as I write this?

Huh...

Because it is not meaningful?

[Mafic]

If it's not meaningful as a reward why have you gone on about it for months and for 848 posts as I write this?

- - - Updated - - -



Applying the legendary quest line treatment to flying is a great idea. I wish they would do this.

Most of us agree the legendary epic quest line would have made more logical sense for unlocking flying but Blizzard seems allergic to telling a story through quests the last three expansions.

[SirCowdog]

If it's not meaningful as a reward why have you gone on about it for months and for 848 posts as I write this?.

It's precisely because it's NOT worthwhile in its current form, that I've been part of the argument for so long. Virtually all of the value of flight is stolen by the requirements to unlock it in the first place. And the primary utility of making alts more convenient is largely mitigated by the huge investment required by the AP grind!

The fact that people still don't recognize this about pathfinder is, quite frankly, appalling and extremely disappointing.

[rebecca191]

Most of us agree the legendary epic quest line would have made more logical sense for unlocking flying but Blizzard seems allergic to telling a story through quests the last three expansions.

The order hall campaign is pretty good IMO. Well, for the class I did it with in beta, anyway...