Expecting nerfs after this week now?

[RedNight at MMOC]

I tend to be in the top 3 of DPS as Havoc in the raids I am in, but I think part of that is contributed to my amazing Relic Traits (best for the specialization) and mostly well optimized gear. We will have to see if this trend continues - if so I expect a nerf to Havoc's single target damage.

[Swiftshadow]

i never understood the reason for nerfs to tank dmg.

Srsly, why do dps care if tanks do equal or more dps on trash.

Doesn't it help the entire group progress faster? If it does then why care who's "number 1"?

Unless they nerfed it ONLY because of pvp. But for god's sake in pvp no one is going to stand clustered together for the tanks to do much AoE dmg anyway.

Sigh.

[jayinjersey]

A lot of tanks get healing based off damage done...so its either nerf healing which might gimp them in ST fights or nerf dps which really shouldn't matter except while leveling.

[ufta]

After another day's worth of raids and a lot more parses being uploaded, one thing that is clear is that Feral Druids and Arms Warriors are the clear kings of ST dps right now.
On Ursoc, DH's are smack-dab in the middle of the pack.
If havoc does receive any nerfs, one would expect them to lower havoc's aoe/cleave dmg. If, however, any incoming nerfs end up reducing ST dmg, that could very well reduce havoc to a bottom-half spec on pure ST fights.

[Sinnthetic]

Havoc is now #1 overall on normal and heroic in the top 75% percentile, really surprisingly to be honest, I was expecting our dungeon strength not to translate over so well.

[Socialhealer]

ST is fine/low but DH aoe is just second to, a retarded DH player, and his mother who fell on his keyboard, THEN you have every other class appearing on aoe.

if their aoe isn't nerfed blizzard are just catering to fanbois going LOL LOOK YOU CAN BE ILLIDAN AND AOE BETTER THAN BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD BECAUSE YOU ILLIDAN!!!!

[Jakkhel]

ST is fine/low but DH aoe is just second to, a retarded DH player, and his mother who fell on his keyboard, THEN you have every other class appearing on aoe.

if their aoe isn't nerfed blizzard are just catering to fanbois going LOL LOOK YOU CAN BE ILLIDAN AND AOE BETTER THAN BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD BECAUSE YOU ILLIDAN!!!!

If AoE is Havoc's niche, why would they nerf it when our ST is decent for the most part, but not overly impressive? That seems rather unfair, especially given there are very few fights (in EN at least) that favour AoE.

[Minoan]

I was thinking I am a head of the pack, slaying our really good playing 2 legendaried Surv hunter.
Then I realised we killed Nythendra in 8 minutes literally facing Berserk, and with it I understood how doomed my raid is(and that in a meantime, when people in open logs will understand wtf they are playing wrong, we won t have such gap between specs)

If AoE is Havoc's niche, why would they nerf it when our ST is decent for the most part, but not overly impressive? That seems rather unfair, especially given there are very few fights (in EN at least) that favour AoE.

Yeah like, 5 out of 7 is a few

[Socialhealer]

If AoE is Havoc's niche, why would they nerf it when our ST is decent for the most part, but not overly impressive? That seems rather unfair, especially given there are very few fights (in EN at least) that favour AoE.

there is a niche then there is, havoc is absolutely fucking insane in aoe, they should buff your ST by like 10% and nerf your aoe by 50%, you may not like that but you know what? when you're overpowered and at the top there is only 1 way to go, and it's not up.

[reokotsae]

there is a niche then there is, havoc is absolutely fucking insane in aoe, they should buff your ST by like 10% and nerf your aoe by 50%, you may not like that but you know what? when you're overpowered and at the top there is only 1 way to go, and it's not up.

even in the most aoe heavy fights in EN, I don't see an outlying difference of more then 20-40k in the logs. Less of a difference then between us and ferals and arms for ST.

I think havoc is in a fine place, middle pack st and exceptional aoe and cleave. If you wanna nerf aoe touch fel barage again or rage, any nerf to eyebeam makes it basically unusable outside of a multi target enviornment removing one of our coolest thematic spells and a nerf to bloodlet would be devestating to single target unless they were to say nerf the bleed on subsequent targets by 50%

The only thing the logs are telling me is that the middle pack is healthy and rather large, certain classes have their niche fights and that certain specs could use buffs to reach potential, like fury st, frost st and aoe, dk's of the frost persuasion, boomkins, eles etc..)

[Deleted]

there is a niche then there is, havoc is absolutely fucking insane in aoe, they should buff your ST by like 10% and nerf your aoe by 50%, you may not like that but you know what? when you're overpowered and at the top there is only 1 way to go, and it's not up.

Nope DH is still upper/top notch bracket notch in single target fights :

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1853
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1864

You cannot argue that it is reasonable to have a spec with both a niche and above average performances outside of that niche. I'm fine with feral topping the crap out of every single target fights, they just cannot aoe. Cannot. DH is top single, cleave and aoe. This is too broad and will get nerfed, do not think that there is going to be any buff to anything to compensate, you'll get otherwise disapointed.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

Basically you can notice a pretty significant jump under Unholy DK, everything under that is pretty much undertuned, with another jump at the very top with the DH.

There is more dps difference between DH and the SECOND BEST DPS SPEC than there is between the second and the 6th best dps spec. That is the very definition of an outlier.

What to expect :

• Buffs to Frost mages, elemental shamans, all warlock specs, fury warrior
• Nerf to DH

You could pretty much bet money on those and have made a safe investment, the rest of the specs are uncertain to be changed because we don't know how conservative or savage the tuning philosophy for this tier is at Blizz.

[Snegovik]

What to expect :

• Buffs to Frost mages, elemental shamans, all warlock specs, fury warrior
• Nerf to DH

You could pretty much bet money on those and have made a safe investment, the rest of the specs are uncertain to be changed because we don't know how conservative or savage the tuning philosophy for this tier is at Blizz.

A lot of comments above based on what a LOGICAL and Fair solution would be, but lets not forget this is Blizzard, and they LOVE having 1-2 OP DPS specs that blow every1 out of water, while other specs are total trash and remain trash.

I would add that Rets need buff to aoe, atm any fights that require target swap or aoe, Rets are in terrible terrible position. hence i would 100% expect some type of Ret aoe buff.

DH wise they should just nerf Fell Barrage and maybe fell rush dmg.

[Creatinebrah]

Nope DH is still upper/top notch bracket notch in single target fights :

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1853
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1864

You cannot argue that it is reasonable to have a spec with both a niche and above average performances outside of that niche. I'm fine with feral topping the crap out of every single target fights, they just cannot aoe. Cannot. DH is top single, cleave and aoe. This is too broad and will get nerfed, do not think that there is going to be any buff to anything to compensate, you'll get otherwise disapointed.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

Basically you can notice a pretty significant jump under Unholy DK, everything under that is pretty much undertuned, with another jump at the very top with the DH.

There is more dps difference between DH and the SECOND BEST DPS SPEC than there is between the second and the 6th best dps spec. That is the very definition of an outlier.

What to expect :

• Buffs to Frost mages, elemental shamans, all warlock specs, fury warrior
• Nerf to DH

You could pretty much bet money on those and have made a safe investment, the rest of the specs are uncertain to be changed because we don't know how conservative or savage the tuning philosophy for this tier is at Blizz.

don't forget nerfs to arms ST

[mitre27]

DH are performing well sure, but they're not doing too good, there's no justification to nerf them other than it being "unfair" for a class to be able to aoe and ST, which is crap, neither their AoE or their ST alone is too strong.

[Socialhealer]

DH are performing well sure, but they're not doing too good, there's no justification to nerf them other than it being "unfair" for a class to be able to aoe and ST, which is crap, neither their AoE or their ST alone is too strong.

we got a DH player here, who wants to be overpowered because he's bad at the game and needs a broken class to feel like he's good, cmon AoE isn't too strong? utter bullshit, lies.

did you play mage in HFC and think that was also fine? hey as long as you're top 3 dps because you play the spec rather than actually being good at the game i guess that works for you.

[Deleted]

DH are performing well sure, but they're not doing too good, there's no justification to nerf them other than it being "unfair" for a class to be able to aoe and ST, which is crap, neither their AoE or their ST alone is too strong.

If you can't see how dh aoe burst is op you need to l2p

[Deleted]

Yeah like, 5 out of 7 is a few

I suppose you are not counting Ursoc or Nythendra as one of the 5, so where are you getting 5 fights favoring AoE from?

Dragons is clearly a fight where Havoc shines, having done it today.
Elerethe seems kinda... okay? Spiders aren't up for a long time.
Same with Cenarius, yes, there are adds, but it's not really a lot of them, which would be where FotI, Eye Beam, Fel Rush, Fel Barrage and Blade Dance would shine. Nothing like, say, Scorpyron will be.
Xavius is just a dripfeed of adds, I don't think this is where AoE would be amazing.
Il'gynoth is not even a "real" AoE fight, damage on the blobs is inconsequential, as they pretty much die during a stun just by looking at them. Cleaving tentacles close to each other is where I felt good during the fight.

All that is just my opinion & experience, keep that in mind.

However, looking at my skillset shows me an abundance of AoE skills, which is worrying, coupled with our good ST. I would love having the damage component from Fel Rush removed, but that would require reworking Fel Mastery, 1 of our Legendaries and reducing the benefit of Mastery for us even more.

I am worried about the future of the spec, just like TEB and old SEF was limiting WW dps, the sheer amount of AoE we have access to might come back to bite us.

Is the nerf to Fel Barrage recharging faster by hitting multiple targets (e. g. Eye Beam) live by now?

[Minoan]

@randomcharacters
I had time to shine on Cenarius and Elerethe, I had times when I okay padded on blobs on tree, there is a possibility to cleave both dragons with FB even when there are no-adds dragons, so yeah I have a gut feeling that, if I can FB cleave every minute or so, and it is not breaking the rules of the strategy(like do not touch this or that completely until the moment X will come), I won't swap FB/ Once my raid team will become more familiar with encounters, and leave me less space to use all my AoE CDs, I will swap back to chaos blades, I love both talents equally. With that in mind, seeing how health bars will grow up in Mythic-I will have my AoE piece of cake

I know that FB on Elerethe is questionable, but I did it and won't regret Once she lands down for the first time, Meta into her, then FR-Glaive since there are always 2 spiders spawn close to her, FB on the run, reach the stack point and FR->momentum FOTI BD->VR+EB->Glaive and some FBs are back. With Cenarius, I thought I would kill myself with CBlades so I just blow the adds.

[kennytheone]

I just hope they will reduce the number of targets, blade dance and fel barrage or fel rush hits instead of reducing the skill dmg else they will fuck our ST g too which is not that amazing and plus everyone that is not playing a DH hates us i feel and we will have big problems getting into grps if our dmg goes down too much. This aoe nerf could've come before raiding started since it's op in 5 mans and Bgs not that much in boss fights where there aren't many encounters where we are top dps.

[redfella]

DH didn't top DPS for us either. It's probably that they are easier to play on the "sub-par" level so they are ahead of many classes in casual raiding.