Overall: Paladin vs. Warrior

[Prussian]

Looking to roll a sword'n'board type class. Curious which is currently performing better. I'm interested in how both rate in regards to tanking, damage in a DPS spec, and overall fun. Thanks for the advice!

[Kithelle]

Well...I don't know the exact numbers...and you can take my advice with a grain of salt...but I would say overall Warrior is the better choice...both tanking and dps...but a lot of people think ignore pain needs a nerf, so keep that in mind since 7.1 is gonna be testing.

[seussiii]

Paly isn't my main but from what I understand they are close enough to just choose the one you enjoy the most. I wouldnt jump on the FOTM train because like Excel said... IP might be getting nerfed.

[Damonharp]

http://i.imgur.com/hEr4EG8.png

Check it out

[seussiii]

I'd be curious to see how much IP has to do with that result and how much it would shift if it were adjusted.

I could definitely see warrior being top tank for the remainder of this xpac but it will likely be adjusted as time goes on. Likely by the time you were even able to level up and raid.

Bottom line... Hypothetically... If war was nerfed to 2nd or 3rd place.. would you still play it? Go for whats fun to you and reasonably competitive.

Also with Pally/druid/monk you have the option of branching off to healing if you ever get bored.

DH... id be a little nervous to invest in as who knows how class balance will play out.

[Wi1kie]

As much as I love my Pally... Ignore Pain is too good right now.

With that said, it feels like Blizzard's nerf bat is already in it's back swing ready to smash the crap out of it!

[Ravingmad]

DPS-wise, the Warriors spec pulls ahead. Ret need a buff or something as it doesnt compete well with other classes at the moment.
Tank-wise, Prot Warrior are doing very well. Prot Pal are fine at the moment. They have a lot of spells/utility to reduce damage and the healing spell is one of the best of the game imo. But this heal is required, as we can drop very fast in HP at times.

[Taeldorian]

Okay, here's the thing.

Warrior:
1. Arms has really good dps but it is so fucking dull to play beyond belief, not many people really want to play it even if it has better numbers.

2. Fury has meh dps. A good ret can do better than a good fury, but fury is really fun to play.

3. Prot warrior is fun and it's a bit OP. Ignore Pain is extremely good, but anyone whose been playing WoW for a while can smell a nerf coming.

Paladin:
1. Ret has somewhat decent numbers when you look at heroic EN logs. Heroic matters more than normal logs because serious players and decent guilds are the ones who have completed heroic right now, so those logs are a bit more correct and accurate. We could use a buff, but a good ret can do pretty well. Look at heroic logs for proof or reference.

2. Holy is in a really good spot. I've had no trouble healing heroic EN. I run with a Rdruid, Rsham, MW, and me (Hpal) and I've been competitive with each of them. Its a fun healing spec and I enjoy it a lot.

3. Prot is in a good spot as well. The nerfs are a bit unwarranted but it's still in a good spot. Ignore Pain for Prot Warriors is just too strong though, but it will absolutely get nerfed. So, I wouldn't gamble based solely on that ability.

Just my 0.02. Go with what you want. If you're looking to dps, warrior may be a better choice but arms is the optimal dps spec and it's mind numbingly dull.

[trashfu]

Okay, here's the thing.
3. Prot warrior is fun and it's a bit OP. Ignore Pain is extremely good, but anyone whose been playing WoW for a while can smell a nerf coming.

Warriors are balanced for mythic content. Not even the best tank for it. If you nerf it, they will drop hard.

IP is extremely good when you outgear content. When mobs in relevant content take away the shield from 1 hit, which it already does, IP isn't suddenly that op.

[Taeldorian]

Warriors are balanced for mythic content. Not even the best tank for it. If you nerf it, they will drop hard.

IP is extremely good when you outgear content. When mobs in relevant content take away the shield from 1 hit, which it already does, IP isn't suddenly that op.

I main holy paladin so I've done a shitload of healing already and I can tell you right now IP does not drop from 1 hit. Even in mythic+ it still holds up pretty well. In raids bosses may take it away in one-two hits depending on the attack but it's extremely strong even for current content.

Improving prots mitigation could help counter the nerf to IP but it does need to happen. It doesn't need to be extreme, just a small nerf.

A good or half decent warrior can pull twice the amount a DK could or BrM could and hardly take damage. I have the easiest time healing them due to this one spell. That lands on the OP side. Don't believe me? Just watch Asmongold. He's hardly a good Prot warrior (he just started a few weeks ago as maining Prot) and he went through mythic+ (2) while hardly taking damage.

[Skarzog]

I main holy paladin so I've done a shitload of healing already and I can tell you right now IP does not drop from 1 hit. Even in mythic+ it still holds up pretty well. In raids bosses may take it away in one-two hits depending on the attack but it's extremely strong even for current content.

Improving prots mitigation could help counter the nerf to IP but it does need to happen. It doesn't need to be extreme, just a small nerf.

A good or half decent warrior can pull twice the amount a DK could or BrM could and hardly take damage. I have the easiest time healing them due to this one spell. That lands on the OP side. Don't believe me? Just watch Asmongold. He's hardly a good Prot warrior (he just started a few weeks ago as maining Prot) and he went through mythic+ (2) while hardly taking damage.

I think he is talking about the jump from heroic raid to mythic raid. Going from Mythic 1 to Mythic 2 isn't much of a jump in damage taken.

Problem with IP is that it only scales with AP and not damage taken. Most Warriors will transition into Mythic raids next week around 850-860 item level seeing possibly 100k extra on their IP. Meanwhile some mechanics like Eye Beam from the Horrors in EN will gain +1M dmg. IP will be eaten through easily, at which point Warrior turns into paper. A class like Prot Pally will mitigate an additional 500k of that damage because SotR is a flat % damage mitigation.

I have a feeling Warriors will struggle through Mythic EN once IP starts being eaten through instantly.

[Eon Drache]

Okay, here's the thing.

Warrior:
1. Arms has really good dps but it is so fucking dull to play beyond belief, not many people really want to play it even if it has better numbers.

2. Fury has meh dps. A good ret can do better than a good fury, but fury is really fun to play.

3. Prot warrior is fun and it's a bit OP. Ignore Pain is extremely good, but anyone whose been playing WoW for a while can smell a nerf coming.

Paladin:
1. Ret has somewhat decent numbers when you look at heroic EN logs. Heroic matters more than normal logs because serious players and decent guilds are the ones who have completed heroic right now, so those logs are a bit more correct and accurate. We could use a buff, but a good ret can do pretty well. Look at heroic logs for proof or reference.

2. Holy is in a really good spot. I've had no trouble healing heroic EN. I run with a Rdruid, Rsham, MW, and me (Hpal) and I've been competitive with each of them. Its a fun healing spec and I enjoy it a lot.

3. Prot is in a good spot as well. The nerfs are a bit unwarranted but it's still in a good spot. Ignore Pain for Prot Warriors is just too strong though, but it will absolutely get nerfed. So, I wouldn't gamble based solely on that ability.

Just my 0.02. Go with what you want. If you're looking to dps, warrior may be a better choice but arms is the optimal dps spec and it's mind numbingly dull.

Have you played Ret? Most will rank it as the worst spec to play as currently. Not because of numbers but because it feels like a half finished warrior with combo points. The gameplay sucks. And in 7.1 it looks like it will become an rng fest. And Fuck blessings. They keep falling off for no fucking reason whenever you go out of range. Have to buff each fight over and over and over again because you didn't hold hands running into the portal.

[Jester Joe]

Have you played Ret? Most will rank it as the worst spec to play as currently. Not because of numbers but because it feels like a half finished warrior with combo points. The gameplay sucks. And in 7.1 it looks like it will become an rng fest. And Fuck blessings. They keep falling off for no fucking reason whenever you go out of range. Have to buff each fight over and over and over again because you didn't hold hands running into the portal.

As far as I know, Blessings are always stripped upon entering an instance unless they're all on you. Not sure why it works that way, maybe to prevent people from buffing outside the instance and then having others go in. Never had an issue inside the instance though.

[Deleted]

Just my 2 cents on this topic.

While at the moment warriors are in a better spot, thanks to Ignore Pain, their artifact traits, while usefull, don't add that much utility/survivalability.

On the other hand Prot Palas will get a lot more utility/survivalability once they are able to unlock all their artifact traits, (I see the same case with Blood DK)

So take that also into consideration, when deciding, incoming nerfs or not. I'd say, decide on playstyle rather which one is percieved better at the moment.

[Taeldorian]

Have you played Ret? Most will rank it as the worst spec to play as currently. Not because of numbers but because it feels like a half finished warrior with combo points. The gameplay sucks. And in 7.1 it looks like it will become an rng fest. And Fuck blessings. They keep falling off for no fucking reason whenever you go out of range. Have to buff each fight over and over and over again because you didn't hold hands running into the portal.

That's completely subjective. Go on the forums and you'll see plenty who are fine with the way ret plays. Most people are complaining about certain mechanics like no built in cleave, greater blessings, etc.

I play ret as my OS in raids and I find it fine in terms of gameplay. My Ilvl is high though and my haste in ret is as well. It doesn't improve the already bad mechanics as I stated before but I enjoy the gameplay.

[Nedralixx]

When a prot warrior pulls 300k hps in a raid you know that something is wrong.

[Eon Drache]

That's completely subjective. Go on the forums and you'll see plenty who are fine with the way ret plays. Most people are complaining about certain mechanics like no built in cleave, greater blessings, etc.

I play ret as my OS in raids and I find it fine in terms of gameplay. My Ilvl is high though and my haste in ret is as well. It doesn't improve the already bad mechanics as I stated before but I enjoy the gameplay.

You can't really say that my comment is subjective but yours isn't. You used that as a point against arms so why doesn't it work for ret?

[Shaktard]

When a prot warrior pulls 300k hps in a raid you know that something is wrong.

As far as i know Ignore Pain is an absorb and they usually show up in the healing done category.

[Taeldorian]

You can't really say that my comment is subjective but yours isn't. You used that as a point against arms so why doesn't it work for ret?

It works for every single spec in the game.

[Skarzog]

When a prot warrior pulls 300k hps in a raid you know that something is wrong.

Its a big number, but if you think about what it actually means its not that impressive.

Consider that IP is for the most part a Warrior's primary form of damage mitigation; a flat absorb which is counted as a heal.

What would a Pally's healing look like if all the damage mitigated by SotR was counted as healing?

If a Pally got hit for 2M by a large mechanic and mitigated that damage with SotR, thats 1M damage mitgated and now count that as healing. Throw in HotP and I am fairly certain they would pull similar healing.

The problem with IP is that its a flat absorb which scales with AP; a stat that does not inflate proportionately to the jump from Norm/Heroic raid to Mythic raid. If IP is tuned for Mythic level content, the fact that its a static absorb will make everything below it trivial. Whereas a 50% dmg mitigation from SotR will directly scale with the damage taken, always requiring a Pally to be healed.

Honestly, if they did nerf IP; Warrior would probably be unable to tank Mythic raids.