Guardian Threat problems

[Findme]

Hi,

we've done our first Emerald Dream raid today and i've tanked with my guardian and a guild mate tanked with his DK. We have similar gear (ilevel ~850). According to logs i've done more damage than him most of the time but i had absolutely no chance at holding threat off him. It doesn't matter if it's multi or single target situations, you can't hold the boss or mobs off him. Had some issues because of that on Ursoc and Il'gynoth horror because of that.


How was your experience regarding threat against other tanks? Did you have problems?

I would understand threat problems if i was lower geared or were new at tanking with druid but it's not that, i'm doing even slightly more dps than him but can't absolutely hold the boss.

[bumblebeef]

Guardian threat is super low right now and its very very annoying especially with mythic+ being skittish.

This week in raid i could be doing 20% more dmg then my DH co tank and still lose threat to him on aoe and single target so its pretty dam frustrating

[Sonnillon]

This week in raid i could be doing 20% more dmg then my DH co tank and still lose threat to him on aoe and single target so its pretty dam frustrating

Try loosing Horror threat on Cenarius to your protadin co-tank who has the healing talent selected... Healing aggro ftw. Luckily we solved it by him speccing into something else.

[exochaft]

I've been trying to narrow down the problem a little since I've noticed rather odd threat issues in different places.

For example, I still occasionally have the issues of Swipe/Thrash literally not hitting targets until combat is reset. Fortunately, it's pretty uncommon. I've also had issues with Swipe/Thrash on slightly uneven terrain not hitting targets, such as stairways or rocks... with speed boosts going, the problem is amplified.

If anything, I'd love to see threat boosts on Swipe and Moonfire. Rather annoying when an add spawns, mouse-over Moonfire it... and it still runs after healers until several ticks later (incidental AoE from DPSers can be a problem, too). Similar issue with Swipe when it comes to initial threat. Boosting threat generation on both would help with long-term single-target (and AoE) threat issues.

[Laorii]

I had a horrible night last night tanking with a DH co-tank (847 and 850). I lost aggro as soon as he used soul cleave. So I used RotS and I still lost aggro to him as soon as he cleaved and I didn't feel I could do anything more because I'm already hitting my buttons as often as they're usable. There's no bigger button to fix it, other than to taunt again and start over the process.

I could keep aoe threat just barely. But we had several 'oh shit' moments on taunt swapping when he took aggro back without even meaning too. It wasn't ideal at all.

[Selerian]

Yeah they need to tweak our threat coefficients asap. We are the worst tanks regarding aggro atm, really annoying.

[Az0na]

Whel if you need to swap tank 2 need hold back. Ofc mah DPS suffers so they do not. Bad co-op

[Thaledwyn]

Same here.

Had a paladin co-tank with 843, me with 848.

No chance to hold aggro :-(.

Should I change from Galactic Guardian to Soul of the forest or even Incarnation to help with this issue?

[Selerian]

Whel if you need to swap tank 2 need hold back

That's bad game design right there.

[Az0na]

That's bad game design right there.

Thats your opinion. Mine is bad team work between tanks.

[Laorii]

Thats your opinion. Mine is bad team work between tanks.

So, what my other tank needs to just deselect the boss and stand afk until he needs to taunt off me? We have a good relationship and communication, he isn't antagonizing me, he's just using the spell that spends his resource and carefully at that. Makes no difference.

[Sonnillon]

Same here.

Had a paladin co-tank with 843, me with 848.

No chance to hold aggro :-(.

Should I change from Galactic Guardian to Soul of the forest or even Incarnation to help with this issue?

What's your protadins tier 90 talent? If it's Judgement of Light have them swap it to something else. Cause for me, the issue was not DPS related, as he didn't touch my add at all and there was no MD/tricks in play. It was healing related. He swapped to something else and I at least could bring the Horror safely away.

Maybe the threat issue is in combination with other tanks healing as well as their better DPS?

[Selerian]

Thats your opinion. Mine is bad team work between tanks.

So you are hindering your raid by effectively prohibiting your co-tank to dish out as much damage as he can, while no other tank has that issue in addition to guardian being the worst in ST dps. And in your book that's ok and just a matter of good communication.

[Az0na]

So, what my other tank needs to just deselect the boss and stand afk until he needs to taunt off me? We have a good relationship and communication, he isn't antagonizing me, he's just using the spell that spends his resource and carefully at that. Makes no difference.

Part of tanking is control your treath. If you over aggro you partner tank when you should not its bad tanking. If that means he run around circles screaming i'm a pony untill he must tank again then thats the way it should be. Still beter then over agro your partner and die by hit you should not get because of a debuff with result of a wipe and all because you can not control yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

So you are hindering your raid by effectively prohibiting your co-tank to dish out as much damage as he can, while no other tank has that issue in addition to guardian being the worst in ST dps. And in your book that's ok and just a matter of good communication.

Dps is not part of tanking and sooner you learn that beter tanking will be. Your job is to stay alive and keep treath of your dps and healing and migtate incomming damage when needed.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

A big problem I think is moonfire. It currently has no threat modifier (that I know of) but it is my highest damaging spell with GG talented.
That's 30% of my dps not doing the normal amount of tank threat.

- - - Updated - - -

Dps is not part of tanking and sooner you learn that beter tanking will be. Your job is to stay alive and keep treath of your dps and healing and migtate incomming damage when needed.

You obviously have not tanked high end in the last 3 expansions. But you are completely mistaken.

[Az0na]

A big problem I think is moonfire. It currently has no threat modifier (that I know of) but it is my highest damaging spell with GG talented.
That's 30% of my dps not doing the normal amount of tank threat.

- - - Updated - - -



You obviously have not tanked high end in the last 3 expansions. But you are completely mistaken.

If you want to beleave that its up to you. Fact is you do not know me so screaming stuff like this makes you look silly. You disagree with me that is fine but screaming bshit is just bshit.

[Thaledwyn]

A big problem I think is moonfire. It currently has no threat modifier (that I know of) but it is my highest damaging spell with GG talented.
That's 30% of my dps not doing the normal amount of tank threat.

May a US Guardian please take this to the US forum so this thread issues can be addressed?

[Myth]

Part of tanking is control your treath. If you over aggro you partner tank when you should not its bad tanking. If that means he run around circles screaming i'm a pony untill he must tank again then thats the way it should be. Still beter then over agro your partner and die by hit you should not get because of a debuff with result of a wipe and all because you can not control yourself.

- - - Updated - - -



Dps is not part of tanking and sooner you learn that beter tanking will be. Your job is to stay alive and keep treath of your dps and healing and migtate incomming damage when needed.

So if a prot pally and DK are tanking they don't have to hold back. If a DH and Warrior are tanking they don't have to hold back. Only tanks that are working with a Druid have to hold back and you think that's ok? Tanks actually do respectable damage now and do so intentionally by blizzard (confirmed at Gamescon, Blizzcon 15, etc). Now I don't play a Druid and I don't tank with one but if this issue is legit then it needs to be addressed. The mentality that a tank is ONLY supposed to survive is false and that is backed up by Blizzard dev comments stating otherwise as I mentioned. So take your "L2P" mentality and troll elsewhere.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

If you want to believe that it's up to you. Fact is you do not know me so screaming stuff like this makes you look silly. You disagree with me that is fine but screaming bshit is just bshit.

You have your account link in your signature. And it shows no high-end progression achievement kill times on your account. I am not spewing nonsense. I check facts.

You are the one spreading misinformation of subjects you have no knowledge about.

- - - Updated - - -

May a US Guardian please take this to the US forum so this thread issues can be addressed?

I merely stated an observation. There's no evidence this is the case yet. We need more info from more people before we can say this is actually the problem.

[Deleted]

Yesterday I pugged normal Emerald Nightmare with a DH as co-tank. I charged in thrashed and swiped and then he came in and did his thing and I lost all aggro, just had to tell him to watch his threat a bit on the bosses and it all went fine, but I didnt get to keep aggro on any trash, rofl.
Also in heroic EM with my guild on the dragons of nightmare I had to tell my co-tank to lay off the dragon I was supposed to taunt of him because I lost threat on it several times and he had two dragons for a bit..

also Findme, can I ask what your rotation and stuff is? because our other tank is also a DK but I cant really get near him on the DMG metre.