Enhancement needs buffs

[Deleted]

The issue with Enhance is that it is back to when the stars align gameplay. I can do 2-3 minutes without a Stormbringer proc and my dps plummets because of it, however when the stars align I can do 300-400k DPS. So if the fights are quick, we're either going to be doing really good or very bad. Hopefully for longer fights we'll balance out. I don't think Enhance translates well in the sims.

We are at best mediocre in sims, but they undicate one thing: we have a large dps variance even on 7min fights. Over 10000 iterations there were tries with 50% more dps than other tries...

[Deleted]

pretty happy with things mechanically and numbers wise so far but I agree that our build is way too cookie cutter for the most part, would like the choices to be way more even. Though I can't see me dropping boulderfist for anything as I prefer not having to spam something. Glad I didn't go elemental (as i have for the vast majority of the time since wrath) as our caster bretherin been a bit shafted yet again.

[Karlz0rz]

There is like, only 1 person saying it isn't 'competitive'. We are saying it isn't consistent, and calling people out on their current BS DPS numbers. Especially since they provide no proof.

Remember that one time you claimed that no one would be able to do 300k, or 280k, or even 260k on a single target boss fight?
Remember that time Mr. Hatexon?

Well, here is the number one parse from Ursoc on Warcraftlogs. Enjoy!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Now sit down, relax, and learn from the big boiz.

[Muh]

67 Stormstrikes? Someone got lucky

[miffy23]

Haha we should be more afraid of nerfs at this point, our DPS is excellent.

[Muh]

Hmm doesn't look like it in the logs, more like decent but there are a lot of melees which handle the raid by far better than us

[Deleted]

Haha we should be more afraid of nerfs at this point, our DPS is excellent.

What? Just look at Warcraftlogs. Only Ret is worse and most melees are overall clearly better. We have empiri al data, not some good enhancers outdpsing bad ferals or extreme proc luck.

[Hatexon]

Remember that one time you claimed that no one would be able to do 300k, or 280k, or even 260k on a single target boss fight?
Remember that time Mr. Hatexon?

Well, here is the number one parse from Ursoc on Warcraftlogs. Enjoy!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Now sit down, relax, and learn from the big boiz.

Your total average DPS is 250k, not 357k. Congratulations on a ton of procs on a melee friendly fight I guess? Your warriors are also doing about 45k less DPS than they should be. So not only did you get really lucky in a sub-4 minute fight, your warriors didn't do as good as they should of.

[Karlz0rz]

Your total average DPS is 250k, not 357k. Congratulations on a ton of procs on a melee friendly fight I guess? Your warriors are also doing about 45k less DPS than they should be. So not only did you get really lucky in a sub-4 minute fight, your warriors didn't do as good as they should of.

So instead of just admitting that you were wrong, you have to find other things to complain about? This isn't my parse by the way, this is the top shaman on a ST fight.
Why not just admit that you were wrong, and own up to it?
Here you clearly have a shaman WELL over 300k, like you claimed was not possible. Just own up to it man.

[Deleted]

Our single target looks good but crash lightning is really frustrating in situations where you have to choose between staying alive or standing in bad positions just so you can actually cleave i'm not a fan of it at all now seeing so many other specs can aoe without the same handcuffs.

[Hatexon]

So instead of just admitting that you were wrong, you have to find other things to complain about? This isn't my parse by the way, this is the top shaman on a ST fight.
Why not just admit that you were wrong, and own up to it?
Here you clearly have a shaman WELL over 300k, like you claimed was not possible. Just own up to it man.

I'm not wrong? I looked at your logs. You got lucky on one fight on the first day of raiding with warriors who where performing badly (they should be AT LEAST doing 350k single target if as skilled as you claim, especially with how easy and melee friendly ursoc is.). Do you not understand how averages work? Do you not understand what actual total DPS is?

[Karlz0rz]

I'm not wrong? I looked at your logs. You got lucky on one fight on the first day of raiding with warriors who where performing badly (they should be AT LEAST doing 350k single target if as skilled as you claim, especially with how easy and melee friendly ursoc is.). Do you not understand how averages work? Do you not understand what actual total DPS is?

So you have a log, where someone does 300k DPS, like you said is not possible. And you STILL don't admit to it? How stubborn are you?
Just man the fuck up, take the ego hit, and realize that you aren't right 100% of the time.

[Hatexon]

So you have a log, where someone does 300k DPS, like you said is not possible. And you STILL don't admit to it? How stubborn are you?
Just man the fuck up, take the ego hit, and realize that you aren't right 100% of the time.

There is no ego hit. I am not wrong. Congratulations on being a big fish in a small pond? I am done with you. Enjoy yourself. \o/

[Deleted]

Remember that one time you claimed that no one would be able to do 300k, or 280k, or even 260k on a single target boss fight?
Remember that time Mr. Hatexon?

Well, here is the number one parse from Ursoc on Warcraftlogs. Enjoy!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Now sit down, relax, and learn from the big boiz.

Here are the overrall ranking for Ursoc (not just that one fight with the highest ranking enhance!!)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1841
Shaman is nowhere near the top.

So as things stand it looks as though enhance is NOT as great on ST as people were claiming. The reason people gave for shamans being in a good place on ST fights, was their personal experience of running dungeons. (wheras simcraft was indicating enhance was poor-medioce).
Here is a class balance blue post from last week explaining why they couldn't use data from dungeons for tuning and instead are going to use raid logs.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...alance-update/

So it looks as though some tuning is coming up. I think Blizzard do look at the forums to get an idea of how to rebalance/tune, and I guess this is just the sort of thread they are likely to read.
It would be a shame if they read this and see everyone saying: "shaman is in a good place on ST, possibly just need a buff to aoe and survivability".
It is possible the other classes will be nerfed, and no changes needed to shaman, but without making that assumption what changes would be needed to tune up enhance?

[Karlz0rz]

There is no ego hit. I am not wrong. Congratulations on being a big fish in a small pond? I am done with you. Enjoy yourself. \o/

Proven wrong with logs, still in denial. Stay classy! I won, you lost. Deal with it .

[Eej]

If you trim out all the soon-to-be nerfed Arms Warriors, Shaman is within 5% of the second highest DPS (Outlaw Rogue). Not bad, really.

[Karlz0rz]

Here are the overrall ranking for Ursoc (not just that one fight with the highest ranking enhance!!)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1841
Shaman is nowhere near the top.

So as things stand it looks as though enhance is NOT as great on ST as people were claiming. The reason people gave for shamans being in a good place on ST fights, was their personal experience of running dungeons. (wheras simcraft was indicating enhance was poor-medioce).
Here is a class balance blue post from last week explaining why they couldn't use data from dungeons for tuning and instead are going to use raid logs.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...alance-update/

So it looks as though some tuning is coming up. I think Blizzard do look at the forums to get an idea of how to rebalance/tune, and I guess this is just the sort of thread they are likely to read.
It would be a shame if they read this and see everyone saying: "shaman is in a good place on ST, possibly just need a buff to aoe and survivability".
It is possible the other classes will be nerfed, and no changes needed to shaman, but without making that assumption what changes would be needed to tune up enhance?

Yeah, overall we aren't at the top, but we are neither at the bottom. I just wanted to prove this dude wrong, when he claimed we wouldn't be able to do above 300k DPS. And he was fucking ADAMANT about it :P.
But yeah, there will be a tuning pass. I'm not sure we'll get that much love though, seeing as we aren't performing "poorly".

[Muh]

Still wish they would increase the procc chance or make it less extremely random

[Deleted]

Yeah, overall we aren't at the top, but we are neither at the bottom. I just wanted to prove this dude wrong, when he claimed we wouldn't be able to do above 300k DPS. And he was fucking ADAMANT about it :P.
But yeah, there will be a tuning pass. I'm not sure we'll get that much love though, seeing as we aren't performing "poorly".

The problem is you may have one try with 330k, one with 290k and one with 250k. No skill involved,just proc luck. The big variance just means that single logs dont mean anything.

If you look at averages Ursoc 75Percentile:

Feral +13.2%
Arms +10.6%
Rogue +4.4%
Monk +0.6%
DH -1.1%
Ret and DK -2.3%

Single target we arent good, we are are mediocre. The high variance leads to some very high, but also some very low results. Thats it.

What doesnt work is our AOE. DHs, Monks and Rogues have much higher AOE damage so they are 10 to 30% on some fights. And arms + feral are much stronger on single target to fix their weak aoe.

If you look at overall performance,retributiin is the weakest melee dps followed by enhancer and dks. I ignore the specs that arent played.

So overall. We are definitely on the lower end of the melees. DHs and monks are op because of much stronger AOE, ferals and warrs are much stronger on ST and rogues are good at both.

If enhancer AOE stays that weak, we should be at least 5% stronger on ST. Or they buff our AOE very much so we get closer that the gap between enhancers and dhs/monk/rogue isnt THAT huge. Id be okay with both.

[Karlz0rz]

The problem is you may have one try with 330k, one with 290k and one with 250k. No skill involved,just proc luck. The big variance just means that single logs dont mean anything.

If you look at averages Ursoc 75Percentile:

Feral +13.2%
Arms +10.6%
Rogue +4.4%
Monk +0.6%
DH -1.1%
Ret and DK -2.3%

Single target we arent good, we are are mediocre. The high variance leads to some very high, but also some very low results. Thats it.

What doesnt work is our AOE. DHs, Monks and Rogues have much higher AOE damage so they are 10 to 30% on some fights. And arms + feral are much stronger on single target to fix their weak aoe.

If you look at overall performance,retributiin is the weakest melee dps followed by enhancer and dks. I ignore the specs that arent played.

So overall. We are definitely on the lower end of the melees. DHs and monks are op because of much stronger AOE, ferals and warrs are much stronger on ST and rogues are good at both.

If enhancer AOE stays that weak, we should be at least 5% stronger on ST. Or they buff our AOE very much so we get closer that the gap between enhancers and dhs/monk/rogue isnt THAT huge. Id be okay with both.

True, the range of DPS is quite horrible. I've experienced them myself first hand. So I agree that we aren't "good", but like you said mediocre.
We might get some tuning, but I fear we'll be overlooked.
On the percentages, I don't mind that there are classes 5% above/below us. That is still within "reason" for me.
Arms and feral is an outlier though, and will probably see some tuning.