Enhancement needs buffs

[Omybad]

it seems like this ozyl dude got extremely lucky in that fight, getting a lot more stormbringer procs than normal, and you got people on this forum thinking enhancement is fine because this one guys luck, i'd like to see his log for next weeks lockout

67 stormstrikes in a 4 minute fight is huge

[Deleted]

True, the range of DPS is quite horrible. I've experienced them myself first hand. So I agree that we aren't "good", but like you said mediocre.
We might get some tuning, but I fear we'll be overlooked.
On the percentages, I don't mind that there are classes 5% above/below us. That is still within "reason" for me.
Arms and feral is an outlier though, and will probably see some tuning.

Thats one fight though. On Ilgynoth we are bad. Enhancer @194k, DH@258k!

Being 2% ahead on one fight means nothing when on others DHs are 33% ahead because of burst AOE.

If you take average dps values dhs are >10%ahead. Thats not balanced.

[Karlz0rz]

Thats one fight though. On Ilgynoth we are bad. Enhancer @194k, DH@258k!

Being 2% ahead on one fight means nothing when on others DHs are 33% ahead because of burst AOE.

If you take average dps values dhs are >10%ahead. Thats not balanced.

If I go to statistics on Warcraftlogs, and put it at 99th percentile, and go through each boss, enha-shaman is above the median on all but one boss, which is Il'gynoth.
I don't see that as bad. That's more or less what it is to be average :P.
I aim to min-max my class, so for me only the 99th percentile matters.

[miffy23]

What? Just look at Warcraftlogs. Only Ret is worse and most melees are overall clearly better. We have empiri al data, not some good enhancers outdpsing bad ferals or extreme proc luck.

Lol you again with your ridiculous sample sizes you drag out to justify your own frustrations every tier.
Enh is pretty exactly where it's been simmed at, in the upper quarter and among the better melee specs. The only specs I've seen doing better are Arms warriors, DH, As Rogues, Fire mages and MM hunters. And most of them are very close. Arms is going to get nerfed down hard, as is MM, as is Havoc. All of them are outliers that are too far ahead right now, that is nothing to base Enh complaints on, we firmly outperform the majority of the rest.

Why do you think every major progress guild is suddenly running at least 1 Enhancer after hmming and haahing about them for weeks.
I'm actually rather fearful they will nerf Enh as well as it is doing exceptionally well right now.


PS: In case you hadn't noticed, only a small percentage of serious guilds log publically at this point.

[Potsu]

Thats one fight though. On Ilgynoth we are bad. Enhancer @194k, DH@258k!

Being 2% ahead on one fight means nothing when on others DHs are 33% ahead because of burst AOE.

If you take average dps values dhs are >10%ahead. Thats not balanced.

Ilgynoth is a very bad fight to gauge DPS on. The bloods stay alive at 1hp for a long time and people still need to cleave down the other bloods to 1hp. This adds massive padding damage to their DPS. This is especially prominent on ranged and melee with good range AoE (DH specifically with eye beams). If you pad on the bloods you can get tons of useless DPS that looks good on a DPS meter.

[freddy090909]

Ilgynoth is a very bad fight to gauge DPS on. The bloods stay alive at 1hp for a long time and people still need to cleave down the other bloods to 1hp. This adds massive padding damage to their DPS. This is especially prominent on ranged and melee with good range AoE (DH specifically with eye beams). If you pad on the bloods you can get tons of useless DPS that looks good on a DPS meter.

I expect that, if it doesn't already, warcraftlogs will eventually remove this overkill damage, like they already do for actually overkilled mobs.

[ehxy]

Guys, our damage is okay on fights where there is little mobility and we have high melee uptime. Using ursoc as a comparison is pure crap because he consistently(it's his goddamn mechanic for godssakes) charges off and charges back. That is not high up time. Dragons are a much better gauge you barely lose up time besides the split second you switch seconds as the dragons are swapped between tanks.

Where we lose out is simply because of mulitple target switching that are far from each other and AoE. I'm fine with most of that but I think we need more utility and a little help in the mobility department. I say let's ditch that stupid healing raid talent for something we'd actually use. Change feral lunge to work like grappling hook.

[Darleth]

Thats one fight though. On Ilgynoth we are bad. Enhancer @194k, DH@258k!

Being 2% ahead on one fight means nothing when on others DHs are 33% ahead because of burst AOE.

If you take average dps values dhs are >10%ahead. Thats not balanced.

Yeah, we're so bad, that we can get well over 250k+ during the burnphase on the heart.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Whatever you're doing with 194k, you're doing it wrong.

[Deleted]

Guys, our damage is okay on fights where there is little mobility and we have high melee uptime. Using ursoc as a comparison is pure crap because he consistently(it's his goddamn mechanic for godssakes) charges off and charges back. That is not high up time. Dragons are a much better gauge you barely lose up time besides the split second you switch seconds as the dragons are swapped between tanks.

Where we lose out is simply because of mulitple target switching that are far from each other and AoE. I'm fine with most of that but I think we need more utility and a little help in the mobility department. I say let's ditch that stupid healing raid talent for something we'd actually use. Change feral lunge to work like grappling hook.

This is the rankings for dragons.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1854
Enhance isn't doing well on it.
(apologies if I misunderstood your point, it may be worth rephrasing it)

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Lol you again with your ridiculous sample sizes you drag out to justify your own frustrations every tier.
Enh is pretty exactly where it's been simmed at, in the upper quarter and among the better melee specs.

I haven't seen a simC result with enhance in the upper quarter, here is the current one.
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html
Enhancer is always low, and unlike a lot of other classes doesn't have another higher performing spec it can switch to.
Could you link the simmed result you are talking about please.

The only specs I've seen doing better are Arms warriors, DH, As Rogues, Fire mages and MM hunters. And most of them are very close. Arms is going to get nerfed down hard, as is MM, as is Havoc. All of them are outliers that are too far ahead right now, that is nothing to base Enh complaints on, we firmly outperform the majority of the rest.

Not sure what you referring to here, could you link logs where enhance "outperform the majority of the rest"?

I'm actually rather fearful they will nerf Enh as well as it is doing exceptionally well right now.

Again could you link some logs that could cause Blizz to think about nerfing enhance?

PS: In case you hadn't noticed, only a small percentage of serious guilds log publically at this point.

Well said, we can only talk about what has been logged so far. (so please provide links otherwise it just looks like opinion)

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I haven't seen a simC result with enhance in the upper quarter, here is the current one.

I don't understand why sims get as much attention as they're given and used as some kind of holy grail when it comes to rankings. We haven't had a Patchwerk fight since the thing itself and these are operating under higher than ideal conditions for a class which is almost entirely dependent on random Stormbringer procs. One week you might blow the meters out of the water and the next you'll be trying to blend in to the ground to avoid embarrassment.

Don't take it personally. This is just something which grinds my gears.

[ehxy]

This is the rankings for dragons.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1854
Enhance isn't doing well on it.
(apologies if I misunderstood your point, it may be worth rephrasing it)

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I haven't seen a simC result with enhance in the upper quarter, here is the current one.
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html
Enhancer is always low, and unlike a lot of other classes doesn't have another higher performing spec it can switch to.
Could you link the simmed result you are talking about please.


Not sure what you referring to here, could you link logs where enhance "outperform the majority of the rest"?

Again could you link some logs that could cause Blizz to think about nerfing enhance?


Well said, we can only talk about what has been logged so far. (so please provide links otherwise it just looks like opinion)

I get where you're coming from and execute phase surrender to the madness is a serious play maker but what are you asking for exactly? I came to enhance because the gameplay is fun, looks great and is not the top dps but a solid below the top dps.

I was also under the impression before I started we'd still have windfury totem so we provided windfury to other melee so that utility more than made up for lack of potential to be the top end. Unfortunately, that is not the case we give 1-2 people stormlash instead which is..less than exciting because it's random and doesn't that mean it can go to healers where it pretty much gets wasted or does it have a smart buff component to it?

That's why I say we need more utility. I want to buff other people and raise everyone's damage so I feel like I'm that pinch of salt to the raid mix that gives it the flavour it needed.

Everybody and their grandmother has some sort of heroism so that shit doesn't mean anything anymore.

[Imnick]

Stormlash will never target someone in a healing spec.

[Deleted]

This is the rankings for dragons.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1854
Enhance isn't doing well on it.
(apologies if I misunderstood your point, it may be worth rephrasing it)

The fight you linked has Enhancement above average.

Enhancement will likely be left alone at the tuning pass. It's ST is good but not really good enough so that it'd be nerfed, unless they've been looking at Enhancement's with good stormbringer RNG. I don't think its AoE will be buffed simply because not every spec is meant to be great at AoE and they'll probably be fine with it being mediocre.


Enhancement is still in a far better place than it used to be in like expansions like Cataclysm, and even then an Enhancement could be very strong in raids in the right hands.

[Xanda]

Here to you

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...-september-23/

They brought WF back to where it was before legion lol

[Gunwolf]

This is prob the best combat log to look at.... It is the overall average for all classes on just the raid bosses :

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps


Here is the same chart using DPS values instead of their normalized "score":

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount



As you can see, Enhance is doing very well. We are in the top third overall DPS.


The "OP" Specs (>200k DPS): Feral, Arms, and Sin Rogue
These specs will prob be deemed OP and need a nerf.

The "UP/Gimp" Specs (<170k DPS): Frost DK, Frost Mage, Elem Sham, Sub Rogue
These specs are in desperate need of buffs.

The "low DPS" Specs (between 170-180k DPS): BM Hunters, Fury Warr, Locks (all specs but afflic seems lowest)
These still underperfrom, and could use some buffs. Lock in general are low, as even their best spec barely breaks 180k. Pure DPS should have like 2 viable specs, so I can agree that they need some buffs.

The "average/balanced" Specs (between 180-200k DPS): Basically everything else, which includes Enhance.







So Enhance seems to be doing just fine. They sure are fun as hell to play too. That being said, I agree with others in that our AOE could use some work. Crash Lightning isn't as great as I would like it to be. A wider aoe swipe would help, as well as more damage like stronger initial hit or perhaps the SS/LL procs could scale or something. I also think the ground aoe left by Crashing Storm is way too small.... the radius needs to be wider.

[Murderdoll]

I just wish there was less RNG. Its really hard to swallow having 0 procs of Stormbinger in the final 50 seconds of a boss. Our Heroic Kill on Nythendra this week I went almost went an entire minute without a proc. Granted, I had a rot in that time, but thats not a minute worth of mechanics.

I really hate this feast or famine model. When youre youre having a feast, the spec is fantastic. Youre pressing buttons, youre being rewarded. When youre in famine, the spec is downright frustrating.

If it was a case of "hey you need to increase your uptime of Frostbrand, Boulderfist and Flametonuge" thats fine. They are things that we as players can improve on.

Telling someone to "get luckier" is not something that goes down well.

We have two Enhance Shamans in our guild, so its easy to do comparisons. Using Dragons as another example. We had almost the exact same buff uptimes same casts of Crash Lightning. Everything is almost identical except for our damage done. The difference? I had 14 Stormbringer procs. The other shaman had 29.

Its really really hard to improve on luck.