1. #10461
    Well I actually never did buy WoD lol. But WoD was a lot worse than Legion. I got it when they gave it for free to everyone who still didn't have it.

    Wait it out is definitely lot cheaper. I'm sure the upgrade price will drop by then. Less crowded zones. Balance issues fixed. There will probably be some kind of catch up gear. Of the two choices available I'm happier with waiting it out. It helps that I did most of what I'd be willing to do without flying on beta already lol. Not like I'm missing much. Only thing I really didn't do was Suramar because I hated it. Why oh why couldn't they just have made that the no flying zone and gone back to the MoP model for the rest? ugh.... I could have avoided it like the plague if it weren't part of the damn achievement for everything else. Not like I'll ever end up flying there anyway, there's nothing left to do there after the achievement is done unless there are unique pet battles or something.
    Last edited by rebecca191; 2016-09-23 at 08:23 AM.

  2. #10462
    Only thing I dislike about no flying is that daze dismounts you.

    Lucky me I'm a rogue, gotta love grappling hook + vanish

    Skickat från min SM-N910F via Tapatalk

  3. #10463
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Parliament of the Daleks
    Posts
    2,940
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Odds on the last set of hoops will come out in the patch that unlocks flight, possibly with a time-gate so people don't feel "forced" to rush the content. Best thing to do would be complete each phase of pathfinder as it is released and take breaks inbetween, or ignore the expansion until flight is knocked and do it all at once.
    Heh, that might end up being the plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Players like you are simply too immature to handle any statement made now, consisting of points which would be altered by any of the above scenarios. They are avoiding the 'outcry' from players like you saying rubbish like 'they added MORE' or 'they said 7.3 , and pushed it back to 7.4!!!!' - simply because things can/do/will change over the course of game development - which sounds obvious, but players cant understand it.
    I won't stoop to your level with that "players like you" bullshit because that's already being on a defensive footing with an internet stranger. I'll take the high road.

    Flight on mainland Broken Isles can be unlocked any time Blizzard so wish. The mainland of the continent's finished. If flight restriction is achievement-based only and not centered around some kind of "epic questline", which it has already been proven to be, then the achievements to unlock flight are completely arbitrary. Blizzard would have no problems, none sticking to a set timeline. It doesn't matter if patch 7.x is a raid or a selfie cam. All Blizzard have to do is flip a switch and enable flight for people with a certain meta achievement.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  4. #10464
    Deleted
    I would mind no-flying much less if we could get back to zone design of Classic or BC where you could just ride almost anywhere in a zone from your current location. Sure, there have been some obstacles, but it was never as obnoxious as it was in WoD and is in Legion. Zones in MoP have been bearable, as well.

    I just hate the current zone design. As if PvE now has the meaning of "Player vs Terrain" and nothing else.

  5. #10465
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Heh, that might end up being the plan


    I won't stoop to your level with that "players like you" bullshit because that's already being on a defensive footing with an internet stranger. I'll take the high road.

    Flight on mainland Broken Isles can be unlocked any time Blizzard so wish. The mainland of the continent's finished. If flight restriction is achievement-based only and not centered around some kind of "epic questline", which it has already been proven to be, then the achievements to unlock flight are completely arbitrary. Blizzard would have no problems, none sticking to a set timeline. It doesn't matter if patch 7.x is a raid or a selfie cam. All Blizzard have to do is flip a switch and enable flight for people with a certain meta achievement.
    That's not necessarily true. If blizzard intends to include future parts of the pathfinder achievement with things such as exploring new areas, or completion of more dungeons, then they can't give an exact date until those new areas or dungeons are also ready for a live version.

  6. #10466
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    They don't need to say 2017 march 21, they should only tell in patch 7.2, 7.3 etc, that leaves them plenty of wiggle room. I doubt the dev team doesn't know how many patch is planned. This is a billion dollar company, not George, the 70 year old baker from across the street, who doesn't know if he will have chocolate muffin next week. Oo
    Imagine: Blizzard have a piece of world content they plan to be the final.part of Pathfinder, currently they plan to release it in 7.2 along with a raid. The raid is completed but something about the world content is taking longer than expected. Blizz decide to release the raid and implement the world content in patch 7.3

    If Blizzard had announced that flying would be coming in 7.2, even if they use phrases like "we expect," "we plan" or "we hope," you can guarantee that there will be people who spend the next few years using it as proof that Blizzard were horrible liars out to con the players. This is why we get a lot less insight into what the developers are thinking with Legion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    I would mind no-flying much less if we could get back to zone design of Classic or BC where you could just ride almost anywhere in a zone from your current location. Sure, there have been some obstacles, but it was never as obnoxious as it was in WoD and is in Legion. Zones in MoP have been bearable, as well.

    I just hate the current zone design. As if PvE now has the meaning of "Player vs Terrain" and nothing else.
    Lots of Vanilla zones expect you to take a long, specific paths to get to certain locations. Yes Vanilla had some open zones which Legion lacks but pretending there aren't any "rat-mazes" is demonstrably false, and with Vanilla it was enhanced by there usually being only one flight path per zone. If you were questing in northern Stranglethorn as Alliance you usually had to start in Darkshire

  7. #10467
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Imagine: Blizzard have a piece of world content they plan to be the final.part of Pathfinder, currently they plan to release it in 7.2 along with a raid. The raid is completed but something about the world content is taking longer than expected. Blizz decide to release the raid and implement the world content in patch 7.3

    If Blizzard had announced that flying would be coming in 7.2, even if they use phrases like "we expect," "we plan" or "we hope," toucan guarantee that there will be people who spend the next few years using it's proof that Blizzard were horrible liars out to con the players. This is why we get a lot less insight into what the developers are thinking with Legion.
    Blizz usually don't release a raid by itself (except ulduar, except BRF, but that's not really and exception), when they release a raid, it must have some outdoor pve content. Especially because they physically put new raids on the new land, where the new raid takes place. Not to mention the gear catchup. So no, I doubt this will ever happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    That's not necessarily true. If blizzard intends to include future parts of the pathfinder achievement with things such as exploring new areas, or completion of more dungeons, then they can't give an exact date until those new areas or dungeons are also ready for a live version.
    This assumes Blizz has no idea how many patches they plan for Legion, how long Legion will last. That would be very bad business plan. Because there is such thing as business plan, which states how much time between patches is planned, how many patches are planned for whole Legion. If they know that, then knowing when to push the button for flying must be cake. So for example if they know Legion will last for 2.5 years, and 5 patches are planned (I would bet my best panties that they have some pretty good ideas about future Legion raids and pve outdoor content, because the art team needs some time to create it, and that happens before it hits the ptr, so the art team is probably really busy with 7.3 already), then they can discuss when to give flying. You (and I) don't know if there will be 3 or 5 or 7 patches, but they know.
    Last edited by Lei; 2016-09-23 at 11:15 AM.

  8. #10468
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Heh, that might end up being the plan


    I won't stoop to your level with that "players like you" bullshit because that's already being on a defensive footing with an internet stranger. I'll take the high road.

    Flight on mainland Broken Isles can be unlocked any time Blizzard so wish. The mainland of the continent's finished. If flight restriction is achievement-based only and not centered around some kind of "epic questline", which it has already been proven to be, then the achievements to unlock flight are completely arbitrary. Blizzard would have no problems, none sticking to a set timeline. It doesn't matter if patch 7.x is a raid or a selfie cam. All Blizzard have to do is flip a switch and enable flight for people with a certain meta achievement.
    That was precisely the argument in WoD, yet there were plenty of invisible walls and unfinished areas that needed to be finished before flying. How do you know this isn't the case in Legion? Sure they can just flip a switch, but we could have issues if those things are not fixed.

  9. #10469
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Imagine: Blizzard have a piece of world content they plan to be the final.part of Pathfinder, currently they plan to release it in 7.2 along with a raid. The raid is completed but something about the world content is taking longer than expected. Blizz decide to release the raid and implement the world content in patch 7.3

    If Blizzard had announced that flying would be coming in 7.2, even if they use phrases like "we expect," "we plan" or "we hope," you can guarantee that there will be people who spend the next few years using it as proof that Blizzard were horrible liars out to con the players. This is why we get a lot less insight into what the developers are thinking with Legion.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Lots of Vanilla zones expect you to take a long, specific paths to get to certain locations. Yes Vanilla had some open zones which Legion lacks but pretending there aren't any "rat-mazes" is demonstrably false, and with Vanilla it was enhanced by there usually being only one flight path per zone. If you were questing in northern Stranglethorn as Alliance you usually had to start in Darkshire
    You are talking about questing, I am talking about moving around. Two complete different things.

    I am just so tired already of having to circle a mountain or hill almost to 360° degree after arriving at my flight path or even after traveling some distance, because there is literally only one way to access the specific location of a world quest. I get that discovering that path is some kind of explorer content. Granted. But why is it valued as an achievement that we have to repeat this over and over until we finally get flight?

    I already try to select world quests which have the minimal travel time, because of this annoyance. Is it what the devs have in mind if they present us their content? That we stop doing some quests altogether because they have an obnoxious location? Some things are just not worth 98 gold or 300 resources.
    Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2016-09-23 at 12:05 PM.

  10. #10470
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Blizz usually don't release a raid by itself (except ulduar, except BRF, but that's not really and exception), when they release a raid, it must have some outdoor pve content. Especially because they physically put new raids on the new land, where the new raid takes place. Not to mention the gear catchup. So no, I doubt this will ever happen.


    This assumes Blizz has no idea how many patches they plan for Legion, how long Legion will last. That would be very bad business plan. Because there is such thing as business plan, which states how much time between patches is planned, how many patches are planned for whole Legion. If they know that, then knowing when to push the button for flying must be cake. So for example if they know Legion will last for 2.5 years, and 5 patches are planned (I would bet my best panties that they have some pretty good ideas about future Legion raids and pve outdoor content, because the art team needs some time to create it, and that happens before it hits the ptr, so the art team is probably really busy with 7.3 already), then they can discuss when to give flying. You (and I) don't know if there will be 3 or 5 or 7 patches, but they know.
    Blizzard knows how many patches Legion will have already. Unless they need to add a stop gap raid or filler content due to a delay in another patch, they know how many. They also know when they are unlocking flight. They already mentioned it would be somewhere in the middle of the expansion unlike WoD where it was the last patch.

  11. #10471
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    That was precisely the argument in WoD, yet there were plenty of invisible walls and unfinished areas that needed to be finished before flying. How do you know this isn't the case in Legion? Sure they can just flip a switch, but we could have issues if those things are not fixed.
    You missed the class when they actually admitted that oops, Draenor was actually not created to allow flying, like at all. That is why then they needed half year(?) to actually fix it.
    Then they said Legion would be different and it's indeed a switch. (But they said that for Draenor as well when they told us that at start there won't be flying)


    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Blizzard knows how many patches Legion will have already. Unless they need to add a stop gap raid or filler content due to a delay in another patch, they know how many. They also know when they are unlocking flight. They already mentioned it would be somewhere in the middle of the expansion unlike WoD where it was the last patch.
    Why are you telling me this? I'm saying the same. Except I haven't heard that middle of expansion thing.
    Last edited by Lei; 2016-09-23 at 12:05 PM.

  12. #10472
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    You are talking about questing, I am talking about moving around. Two complete different things.
    The only issues I have had in Legion is the occasional tree root that prevents me from moving. Other than that, you can clearly follow the roads and paths to near your questing are then shoot over to it avoiding most of the terrain. Some areas a bit hidden but this has always been the case. Traversing has been made even easier with the FM whistle at 110. SO I'm not complaining. Then again, if flight were completely removed I wouldn't be complaining either. I don't miss it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    You missed the class when they actually admitted that oops, Draenor was actually not created to allow flying, like at all. That is why then they needed half year(?) to actually fix it.
    Then they said Legion would be different and it's indeed a switch. (But they said that for Draenor as well when they told us that at start there won't be flying)




    Why are you telling me this? I'm saying the same. Except I haven't heard that middle of expansion thing.
    Just agreeing/confirming. I do believe it was JAB that mentioned that on an interview a while back. Going to see if I can find it.

  13. #10473
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Ok, so I suppose people have never heard of the business technique when you propose a total crazy idea which causes your partner to scream, then you lower it, so they think they won, but it's still awesome for you?
    Example:
    Devs: NO MORE FLYING, EVER! (Which is crazy, I have like 150 flying mounts, many of them from the shop, bought for cash money, wtf should I do with all those without flying, and they haven't stopped creating new ones, by the time they announced this, the Corrupted Dreadwing was in the ptr files as Glory of the Hellfire Citadel raider reward I believe, which then they swapped to the Wolf, as originally the wolf was the 150k apexis reward)
    Playerbase: OMG NO, RIOT, FILL ALL THE THREADS!
    - dramatic silence for a couple of day -
    Devs: Okay, how about a long long... long long long achievement then?
    Playerbase: ANYTHING, just don't take away flying!
    Playerbase thinks they won, and they are more content doing pathfinder part 1-2-3-4-5-6-7. Yeah...
    I mean I'm not rioting, I'm playing the game, sometimes I let some swears out when I have to do stuff in Highmountain, but I'm just patiently (at least for now) waiting for flying.
    I am not going to patiently wait for flying when they say things like "mid expansion" which could be mean wait a year lol.

  14. #10474
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I am not going to patiently wait for flying when they say things like "mid expansion" which could be mean wait a year lol.
    Hey, that's as new for me like it seems new for you.

  15. #10475
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    The only issues I have had in Legion is the occasional tree root that prevents me from moving. Other than that, you can clearly follow the roads and paths to near your questing are then shoot over to it avoiding most of the terrain. Some areas a bit hidden but this has always been the case. Traversing has been made even easier with the FM whistle at 110. SO I'm not complaining. Then again, if flight were completely removed I wouldn't be complaining either. I don't miss it.
    And I do miss flying even with all convenience around. Getting flying mounts in BC was a dream come true, my first Nether Drake is still one of my most beloved mounts, and I would exchange the whistle instantly for my flying mount, even if I had 5 min CD on flying mount use like the whistle does as long as Pathfinder is not completed.

    I would go even further and exchange flight masters for personal flight for good as soon as my character gets to max level.

    For gold sinks, I would also prefer having some mounts to buy instead of paying the flightmaster fee. I have the feeling that Legion has the least amount of mounts available in the expansion.

  16. #10476
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Blizz usually don't release a raid by itself (except ulduar, except BRF, but that's not really and exception), when they release a raid, it must have some outdoor pve content. Especially because they physically put new raids on the new land, where the new raid takes place. Not to mention the gear catchup. So no, I doubt this will ever happen.
    Black Temple, Hyjal, Dragon Soul all came without additional world content and I don't see why Blizzard couldn't have delayed Timeless Isle if it wasn't ready in time. Also don't forget Tanaan was originally supposed to come in 6.1. The idea that Blizz would never release a raid without world content, or never delay content if it isn't ready in time, is silly.

    This assumes Blizz has no idea how many patches they plan for Legion, how long Legion will last. That would be very bad business plan. Because there is such thing as business plan, which states how much time between patches is planned, how many patches are planned for whole Legion. If they know that, then knowing when to push the button for flying must be cake. So for example if they know Legion will last for 2.5 years, and 5 patches are planned (I would bet my best panties that they have some pretty good ideas about future Legion raids and pve outdoor content, because the art team needs some time to create it, and that happens before it hits the ptr, so the art team is probably really busy with 7.3 alrj3eady), then they can discuss when to give flying. You (and I) don't know if there will be 3 or 5 or 7 patches, but they know.
    I doubt Blizzard really know for sure, their plans tend to change a lot (remember Faralon in WoD?)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    You are talking about questing, I am talking about moving around. Two complete different things.

    I am just so tired already of having to circle a mountain or hill almost to 360° degree after arriving at my flight path or even after traveling some distance, because there is literally only one way to access the specific location of a world quest. I get that discovering that path is some kind of explorer content. Granted. But why is it valued as an achievement that we have to repeat this over and over until we finally get flight?

    I already try to select world quests which have the minimal travel time, because of this annoyance. Is it what the devs have in mind if they present us their content? That we stop doing some quests altogether because they have an obnoxious location? Some things are just not worth 98 gold or 300 resources.
    I'm talking about getting to a certain part of the zone, many areas in Vanilla fit what you consider a "rat maze" design where you have to follow a particular path to get to your destination.

  17. #10477
    I'm pretty sure Blizzard said that they would handle flying in Legion similar to WOD and that it would be unlocked close to the last content patch. I think this is a great compromise, the world does feel more alive and slightly dangerous when tied to the ground. WoW isn't primarily a flight simulator and RPGs in general isn't either so it makes sense.

  18. #10478
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    You missed the class when they actually admitted that oops, Draenor was actually not created to allow flying, like at all. That is why then they needed half year(?) to actually fix it.
    Then they said Legion would be different and it's indeed a switch. (But they said that for Draenor as well when they told us that at start there won't be flying)
    I caught the bit where they said CRZ had caused additional problems with flying in WoW, which is why it took about 2 months between 6.2 launching and flight unlocking. Can you link your information saying Draenor wasn't ready at all, and how it took half a year?

  19. #10479
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Black Temple, Hyjal, Dragon Soul all came without additional world content and I don't see why Blizzard couldn't have delayed Timeless Isle if it wasn't ready in time. Also don't forget Tanaan was originally supposed to come in 6.1. The idea that Blizz would never release a raid without world content, or never delay content if it isn't ready in time, is silly.



    I doubt Blizzard really know for sure, their plans tend to change a lot (remember Faralon in WoD?)
    Tanaan actually fits my argument, because they didn't push Hellfire Citadel out with half-done Tanaan (well, Tanaan was "done" as a zone since beta, just without the fel crap), they delayed and released them together. But I'd say WoD is more like the exception than a rule in pretty much everything.

    Black Temple http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_2.1.0. Skettis, Ogri'la, Netherwing, Consortium quests.
    Hyjal is the black sheep as it was technically open from BC release, but you needed serious chains of attunements.
    Dragon Soul http://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_4.3.0 Transmog + void storage, reforge, Darkmoon Faire revamp. I'd say this is okay.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I caught the bit where they said CRZ had caused additional problems with flying in WoW, which is why it took about 2 months between 6.2 launching and flight unlocking. Can you link your information saying Draenor wasn't ready at all, and how it took half a year?
    Sure, I'm trying to find it, if I remember correctly, people were moaning about 6.2 taking so long, and some blue said it's because they need to test flying because draenor was not designed for flying. Trying to find it but when I enter draenor and flying it throws all the 500+ pages long threads in my face.

    EDIT: Found some of the info. 6.2 (Tanaan) was released on 2015. june 23 (http://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.2.0), with Draenor Pathfinder Achieve, but the actualy flying came with 6.2.2 which was released on september 1st (http://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.2.2) Ion Hazzikostas has had an interview in May when he said there won't be flying in WoD, and not in future expansions either (http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/22/864...mo-pc-blizzard), this is when people went crazy and made them "reconsider" this decision. Trying to find the exact quote for the other stuff. But it's really hard when they tend to delete whole blue posts, and the new armory doesn't help either.

    EDITEDIT: I think I found it, but I remember different person talking about it with slightly different wording. http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...000271#post-18

    EDITEDITEDIT: It's really hard to find anything that doesn't sound complete BS on this topic when you bump into dev tweets like this: https://twitter.com/OccupyGStreet/st...11014708408321
    Last edited by Lei; 2016-09-23 at 02:57 PM.

  20. #10480
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Hey, that's as new for me like it seems new for you.
    And remember: mid-expansion is a vague enough term. Take WoD as an example:

    Due to it having a content drought that lasted more than a year, Flight was effectivelly enabled "mid-expansion". A bit less than 1 year development cycle, and a bit more of 1 year as "remaining shelf life", so to speak.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •