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  1. #201
    Deleted
    Dunno how you can call any warlock spec mechanically sound, to be fair.

    Destro: RNG shard generation, RNG mastery
    Demo: Extremely spammy, super high ramp-up, probably the spec that suffers the most from having to move
    Affli: Super high ramp-up, soul effigy, RNG shard generation
    All specs: Secondary resource cost for major cooldowns, no usable CC, no interrupt, only class with cast time on combat res, very biased talent builds for either ST or AoE while lots of other specs can do both as good or better with the same build.

    I mean, comeon, the only real benefit of a warlock (lets stop looking at damage for a second) is that he's tanky. It's a good benefit, true, but enough to not bring anything else to the table?

    You can argue that healthstones, summoning stones and portals are utility. But one is countered completely by health pots and the other two are highly situational and about as fun as Conjure Refreshments was for mages in vanilla.

    PS. I'm not asking to have all of these problems purged. All specs struggle with their own issues and downsides are necessary. But I hope they abolish some of these issues at least. I mean, damage is nice and all, but it's not the only toy you want to play with.

  2. #202
    Lets just state the obvious, the Warlock class (all three specs) is under performing. The option of having one "strong" spec to play does not exist as they do with other classes (especially pure dps classes). Numbers don't lie. Checked the logs for all heroic Emerald Nightmare boss kills (US) to see where Warlocks were ending up on the charts in the top 200 and 600.

    Nythendra: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 327. In the top 600 there are three Warlocks in total.

    Il'gynoth: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200 except Shamans) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 561. In the top 600 there are two Warlocks in total.

    Elerethe Renferal: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200 except Shamans) - First and ONLY Warlock to rank was Aff at 203 in the top 600.

    Ursoc: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 278. In the top 600 there are two Warlocks in total.

    Dragons of Nightmare: WE MADE IT, THANKS HAVOC! 20 Warlocks in top 200 (Paladins, Druids, and Shamans did not rank in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Destro at 19.

    Cenarius : Two Warlocks in the top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 89. In the top 600 there are seven Warlocks in total.

    Xavius: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200 except Paladins) - First Warlock to rank was Destro at 230. In the top 600 there are seven Warlocks in total.

    Lets hope the changes coming soon can help us catch up with the pack.
    Last edited by Amontoya86; 2016-09-23 at 03:12 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by dakalro View Post
    You do understand that you're designed in theory with wasting GCDs on Life Tap, right?
    yeah, and it doesn't feel that way, there is currently no payoff for using it, that couldn't be filled with anything else and probably feel better. it's just class fantasy crap for the sake of class fantasy, not gameplay

  4. #204
    Life Tap is ok, it gets bad, when you add Mana Tap into the mix.
    And its not like theres anybody who posted "feedback" on beta forum who didnt complain about the talent, and there are dozens of changes that could have made it much better gameplay wise.

  5. #205
    Deleted
    I'm just hoping the changes next week will be decent, and not just extremely minor hotfixes. It's clear as day that Warlock is doing terrible as of right now, especially for a class with 3 dps specs.

  6. #206
    In regards to Life Tap. How about Tap 20% health for 1 shard? Class fantasy stays intact, it could help out "smooth out" the shard starved moments.

    Or make Life Tap our baseline interrupt. X% health to interrupt a cast.

    Demo ramp up could be helped by increasing pet Life by 25-50%, adding a cap to pets at which point subsequent casts will just refresh the durations of existing pets.

    Affliction ramp up could be helped by increasing the rate that agony stacks build and placing a small initial damage component to all of our Dots. It doesn't need to be much, even if the first tick was instant, that would be a nice QOL change.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwysh View Post
    Snip.
    i like the direction for those fixes, lifetap should indeed be a form of gaining power, not just recharging shitty batteries.
    aff ST and ramp could be fixed by faster ticking agony/ corruption/ siphon life on the target for your drain life or simply less ticks needed to reach the agony cap and more damage on drain/ unstable

  8. #208
    Went through a few of the bosses just to see how it felt and was so disappointed. Immediately went back to my Rogue.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by theblackharvest View Post
    He is not saying that all warlock players are bad. He is saying that the vast majority of the people that complain and put warcraftlogs as proof are not playing in top 5 guilds and with ppl that play their classes at their absolute potential. So its not that you cant perform well..simply by focusing on being a better player, or play your class better can get you being competitive in you "playing enviroment" . Which is frankly true.

    That doesnt have anything to do with warlocks needing buffs. Yes they do and yes you have to work harder to archieve same results as monk, mage, dh or whatever. But we cant do anything else atm till the fixing patch comes and see what will be changed anyway.

    Many people get blinded by the underperfoming state of warlocks in top end enviroment and ASSUME that they do perfect rotations, ASSUME that they do perfect mechanics and that for their bad performance responsible is only the class balance and only that. Well bad news..thats not the case for 99% of the players who post here. Like class balance is the only thing that keeps them from doing top 3 parses.
    Yes.

    There is nothing preventing Warlocks from being able to progress any content in the game right now and contribute to a group except for the players themselves. It doesn't matter if you don't do as much damage as the DH, as long as you do enough damage to contribute. And that is absolutely possible. Don't worry about beating the top 200,, because that doesn't apply to most people, worry about being relevant in your group.

    I've actually never seen so many people go on a tirade telling people that are actually playing the class and doing well - or trying to do well - how wrong they are because insert paragraph of reasons and citations to WCL and to stop talking because "T3H WARLOCKS SUXX LOOK AT LOGS!!".


    - - - - - - -

    Now, back on subject. H Cenarius and H Xavius both down. Both of the fights felt smooth for Destro. We have the ability to do plenty of priority target damage while focusing on mechanics pretty easily. Portal is useful in both. Was at I believe 200k on H Cenarius (for reference, only 30k less than a Fire Mage in our group who was 82%.)

    Xavius numbers get really skewed (almost making WCL inaccurate?!?!) at the end because of tentacle cleave but there is so much wreak havoc potential here. It's hard to decide whether to do backdraft or roaring blaze here - I went BD, but will likely try RB for the next kill. I notice some people going FnB, but I'm almost positive that's to cheese the tentacles at the end. Ended this one at 264k, which was about 25 million or so damage under the fire mages and hunters.. who coincidentally had about 25m of tentacle damage. I had around 10m because of Immolates and Grimoire of Sac, but Destro is viable here too.

    Excited to see some numbers tuned, but still happy with getting Heroic down in about 7 hours of raiding over 3 nights
    Last edited by Jondar; 2016-09-23 at 03:55 PM.

  10. #210
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Thing is there really aren't many actual mechanical issues with the specs. A lot of the time people seem to be unable to separate mechanics they don't enjoy from mechanics that are actually issues with the spec, which are two very different things. There is plenty about the design of each spec I would change because of personal preference, but there's damn near nothing inherently wrong with any of them that can't be solved with tuning.
    So you don't feel like a long ramp up, inefficiencies with switching, poor mobility, and high cost of switching to AoE are poor mechanical hamstrings to raiding? Nor an over-reliance on 'on death' procs for dealing damage for Affliction?

    I mean, with the changes to CH; Unstable Affliction is looking less like a DoT and more like the band-aid fixed Chaos Bolt from MoP/Wrath Conflagrate; with up front damage and some rolled over into a DoT. It also snapshots off your Artifact.

    What data are you looking at? Just wondering because statistics data from logs can be very misleading if you're looking at that.

    Here's some statistics data from HFC:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#timespan=1000

    Destro must have been an awfully shit spec back then looking at this right? Hell its below demo and demo was gutted. And yet it was one of the best specs to have in your raid for half the fights and was actually built into the strategy of mythic archimonde.
    Same data as everyone else. I don't need to manipulate anything to show you:-

    Nythendra
    Demo mid pack at 75%
    Not quite mid pack at 95%

    IHoC
    Destro mid pack at 75%
    Warlocks basically non-existent at 95%

    Elerethe
    75% just fucking lol.
    Aff almost does something at 95%

    Ursoc
    75% filling out the bottom half again.
    Same story at 95%

    Next 3 fights have far less data, but:-
    Dragons
    Finally Warlocks doing something.
    And still good here too.

    Cenarius
    The good news didn't last.
    Still poor.

    Xavius
    Not great.
    Poor.

    Everything is mostly fine though, we're a tiny bit under tuned but mechanically sound and we already know a tuning pass is happening tues and we're likely to see buffs.
    "A tiny bit undertuned", when there's literally 1 spec in 1 fight that drags the class to nearing mid table in the total aggregate?

    I'm struggling to figure out how the current situation isn't fine.
    You have exceptionally low standards. It's like you consider logging on a success. Is it okay that your Class Hall portal only sometimes works too? Is it too much to expect that to always work?

    Let's talk population:

    http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php...ervertypeid=-1 By Warcraftrealms census data, we have 6% representation at max level. That's lower than at any time in the game's history. Granted, we have 2 new classes since then, but both are melee and shouldn't be taking excessively from our "pool". We should be 'expecting' 8%. We're not there.

    And looking at the data we were given the other day in this thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-what-I-found (I'm not sure how and I don't have time right now to look it up to see this directly on wowprogress) it looks like those getting to the level cap simply aren't sticking by their Warlocks once they're there.

    It isn't, but it is. It's literally always been the answer for the last 12 years, you play the spec(s) that's strong if you want to perform at a certain level. It's not something I think is great, in an ideal world all specs would be equally balanced and viable but that would require a level of homogenization that is simply not going to happen.

    So telling people to be ready to play multiple specs and swap to the "best" one at the time is the correct advise.
    Well I'm just not going to do that. No fan of Destro, absolutely loath the new Demo. I'm stuck with reroll or quit; I'm pretty much on for the former for now but I have some weeks still before I think I can actually think about sitting down and raiding again properly so, we'll see. It just sucks to see 10 years of investment in a character gone through, frankly, what feels like ignorance on the part of the developers. The bandaid covers the bullet hole.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2016-09-23 at 03:58 PM.

  11. #211
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Amontoya86 View Post
    Lets just state the obvious, the Warlock class (all three specs) is under performing. The option of having one "strong" spec to play does not exist as they do with other classes (especially pure dps classes). Numbers don't lie. Checked the logs for all heroic Emerald Nightmare boss kills (US) to see where Warlocks were ending up on the charts in the top 200 and 600.

    Nythendra: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 327. In the top 600 there are three Warlocks in total.

    Il'gynoth: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200 except Shamans) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 561. In the top 600 there are two Warlocks in total.

    Elerethe Renferal: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200 except Shamans) - First and ONLY Warlock to rank was Aff at 203 in the top 600.

    Ursoc: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 278. In the top 600 there are two Warlocks in total.

    Dragons of Nightmare: WE MADE IT, THANKS HAVOC! 20 Warlocks in top 200 (Paladins, Druids, and Shamans did not rank in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Destro at 19.

    Cenarius : Two Warlocks in the top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200) - First Warlock to rank was Demo at 89. In the top 600 there are seven Warlocks in total.

    Xavius: ZERO Warlocks in top 200 (Every class had at least one spec ranked multiple times in top 200 except Paladins) - First Warlock to rank was Destro at 230. In the top 600 there are seven Warlocks in total.

    Lets hope the changes coming soon can help us catch up with the pack.
    Great post. Thanks for gathering the information to point it out with statistical proof. I would +1 or REP you but MMO champ doesn't support that function so have my gratitude in terms of words : Thank You

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    So you don't feel like a long ramp up, inefficiencies with switching, poor mobility, and high cost of switching to AoE are poor mechanical hamstrings to raiding? Nor an over-reliance on 'on death' procs for dealing damage for Affliction?

    I mean, with the changes to CH; Unstable Affliction is looking less like a DoT and more like the band-aid fixed Chaos Bolt from MoP/Wrath Conflagrate; with up front damage and some rolled over into a DoT. It also snapshots off your Artifact.


    Same data as everyone else. I don't need to manipulate anything to show you:-

    Nythendra
    Demo mid pack at 75%
    Not quite mid pack at 95%

    IHoC
    Destro mid pack at 75%
    Warlocks basically non-existent at 95%

    Elerethe
    75% just fucking lol.
    Aff almost does something at 95%

    Ursoc
    75% filling out the bottom half again.
    Same story at 95%

    Next 3 fights have far less data, but:-
    Dragons
    Finally Warlocks doing something.
    And still good here too.

    Cenarius
    The good news didn't last.
    Still poor.

    Xavius
    Not great.
    Poor.


    "A tiny bit undertuned", when there's literally 1 spec in 1 fight that drags the class to nearing mid table in the total aggregate?


    You have exceptionally low standards. It's like you consider logging on a success. Is it okay that your Class Hall portal only sometimes works too? Is it too much to expect that to always work?

    Let's talk population:

    http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php...ervertypeid=-1 By Warcraftrealms census data, we have 6% representation at max level. That's lower than at any time in the game's history. Granted, we have 2 new classes since then, but both are melee and shouldn't be taking excessively from our "pool". We should be 'expecting' 8%. We're not there.

    And looking at the data we were given the other day in this thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-what-I-found (I'm not sure how and I don't have time right now to look it up to see this directly on wowprogress) it looks like those getting to the level cap simply aren't sticking by their Warlocks once they're there.


    Well I'm just not going to do that. No fan of Destro, absolutely loath the new Demo. I'm stuck with reroll or quit; I'm pretty much on for the former for now but I have some weeks still before I think I can actually think about sitting down and raiding again properly so, we'll see. It just sucks to see 10 years of investment in a character gone through, frankly, what feels like ignorance on the part of the developers. The bandaid covers the bullet hole.
    Can you post some of your own logs so we can help you perform better in the Emerald Nightmare raid?

  13. #213
    I want to take a moment to give a shout out to whoever the player Xanez on Blackrock is that managed to reach rank 147 on Nythendra. Almost 300k damage in demo, which is outstanding. Granted, he is at ilvl852 and has the BiS legendary shoulders, but still quite an achievement. 25k more than the next highest ranked Warlock.

    It is still around 50k less than the top dps, but it shows, with great gear and BiS legendaries, we, too, can strive to be slightly above average...

    P.S.

    First part is a legit compliment, great job, great damage. The second part, yeah, well....you get the idea...

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You did not even do bloody Heroic EN yet, how the hell do you know?

    Below average? In our last Heroic raid I was in top 5 at 3 encounters (3, 4, 4), 6th in one encounter and 10th in one encounter due to dying midway. That is out of 17 damage dealers. Amount of effort I put? About the same as them, I recon.

    Is that below average to you?
    LoL I can't take it anymore... FYI you are giving the people in your raid too much credit for being good players and doing good DPS because the logs you linked were far from that. Your delusions that things are OK are tied to this notion that your raid group is doing top damage when in fact it's not and if you compare your damage to others outside your group you'd see its rather lacking.

  15. #215
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jondar View Post
    Can you post some of your own logs so we can help you perform better in the Emerald Nightmare raid?
    So I'm posting links to thousands of logs, and you want 1 specific one? What are you expecting to find in that, that you can't find in those? Surely you're not hoping to discredit all of those data points by questioning my ability?

    I'd love to furnish you with that in any case, but I'm not raiding until Saturday, and wont be on my Warlock. There might be some historical logs from previous tiers though out there that show I'm not completely awful.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    So I'm posting links to thousands of logs, and you want 1 specific one? What are you expecting to find in that, that you can't find in those? Surely you're not hoping to discredit all of those data points by questioning my ability?

    I'd love to furnish you with that in any case, but I'm not raiding until Saturday, and wont be on my Warlock. There might be some historical logs from previous tiers though out there that show I'm not completely awful.
    What do their logs have to do with your logs? You aren't those players, and you don't raid in their group so it doesn't really matter. I thought you had raided and that's why you had so many complaints about Warlock, so I wanted to see where you could improve. Calm down.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    So telling people to be ready to play multiple specs and swap to the "best" one at the time is the correct advise.
    It is the correct advise but right now with how artifacts works with their iLvL is the fact that warlocks following said advice have to get 3 relics for every spec which means getting 9 relics up-to-date just in case a spec becomes better than the other one.

    So saying to just switch spec because artifacts are easy to level (which is somewhat true due to Artifact Knowledge but still a pain for 3 spec with current AK levels) ignores the fact that someone who could have tried/still trying to get relics for a certain spec and be unlucky and not get them to drop. For example, in my case I've been trying to get a Fel relics for two weeks now for both demo and Destro yet for the life of me, they just won't drop. I've got an 880 Affliction weapon, 870 Demo (still with an 830 relic in it and an 835 relic) and a 859 Destro weapon and it's not for lack of trying to get it higher. Couple that with needing to keep different armor set due to stats priority which means you've got to get 2 to 3 different sets of armor else you're stuck with using a sub-optimal set (e.g: Mastery being king for Affliction and terrible for Demo) from a different spec which leaves you under performing even with the current best spec which makes the effort that you put seem worthless.

    You could be lucky and get everything necessary quickly and that would be a non issue. But what do you tell people who are not lucky ? I think telling people to farm enough Artifact power to keep 3 relics leveled up properly, keep 9 relics up-to-date and get 2-3 gear set just to be able to switch on the fly is asking for a lot.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    So you don't feel like a long ramp up, inefficiencies with switching, poor mobility, and high cost of switching to AoE are poor mechanical hamstrings to raiding? Nor an over-reliance on 'on death' procs for dealing damage for Affliction?
    None of these things are exactly new to the class, and they did not prevent it from excelling in the past, I'm not sure why it would be a problem now all of a sudden. If someones initial experience with the class was mop I could see how they might feel that way, but literally none of this has ever been a problem.

    Long ramp is rewarded with higher sustain or stronger burst than a class with no ramp, if the specs aren't seeing those rewards then its a tuning issue not a mechanics issue. Not being able to switch goes hand in hand with ramp and its reasonings. Poor mobility is rewarded by being stronger when you get to turret, if it isn't working that way then its a tuning issue.

    Basically every class has to deal with talents determining what kind of dmg they can do. It's either ignorance or naivety that people think warlocks are special in that regard.

    Affliction can very easily be balanced around its on death traits, that's again not an issue its simply a matter of tuning. I genuinely don't understand why that's not immediately apparent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Same data as everyone else. I don't need to manipulate anything to show you:-
    No one said anything about manipulation, just that looking at stack rankings in statistics doesn't exactly give context and can be misleading about the state of a class. Hence my linking the HFC statistics, where it looks like destro is almost equally shit to what locks are currently, yet it was easily one of the best specs in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    "A tiny bit undertuned", when there's literally 1 spec in 1 fight that drags the class to nearing mid table in the total aggregate?
    See above, again destro was all of mid table and demo was even above it during HFC and yet demo was a way shittier spec and destro was one of the best specs in the game. You need to understand what you're looking at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    You have exceptionally low standards. It's like you consider logging on a success. Is it okay that your Class Hall portal only sometimes works too? Is it too much to expect that to always work?
    Yes of course I do, that's how I got myself into a us top 10 guild, and raid amongst the top .6% of players in the world. Because my standards are exceptionally low.

    By the by the portals already been fixed, they made it so you just walk into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Granted, we have 2 new classes since then, but both are melee and shouldn't be taking excessively from our "pool".
    You're literally talking about the xpac where they released demon hunters, the very class that we were always the closest to and had all the fantasy of. They literally remade one of our specs from scratch just to take our toys and give it to them. Not to mention it being one of thee most iconic and popular warcraft hero designs since ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    it looks like those getting to the level cap simply aren't sticking by their Warlocks once they're there.
    Tbh wouldn't surprise me at all, the class is a bit undertuned while also being significantly more difficult to get solid numbers out of than it has been for the last 2 expansions. It reminds me of lock pre-mop, where it was one of the harder classes to play, and that really just never jived with the general audience in the first place. You again couple that with us being under tuned and the massive hyperbole going around forums and yeah you're gonna get people who are put off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Well I'm just not going to do that. No fan of Destro, absolutely loath the new Demo. I'm stuck with reroll or quit; I'm pretty much on for the former for now but I have some weeks still before I think I can actually think about sitting down and raiding again properly so, we'll see. It just sucks to see 10 years of investment in a character gone through, frankly, what feels like ignorance on the part of the developers. The bandaid covers the bullet hole.
    And I can understand that, but you need to understand that the problems there are your personal ones and not ones with the class itself. I remember vividly talking to you during mop where you said something like you were using succubus all the time while playing demo simply because it made you happy to do so and you loved playing demo and having your succubus out while fully understanding it was a dps loss and you were in a guild where they respected that. I remember gaining a very high opinion of you from that convo because you seemed to have that full understanding of the state of the game and yet were still able to just do what made you the happiest while being perfectly viable. You were a cut above many other raiders of varying levels in maturity and especially the players who likely raided around the same level as you who were far more high strung. We were literally wading in the same sea of hyperbolic BS that we're in right now and yet you were there talkin' bout how you didn't give a shit and were using what you enjoyed.

    It's just odd to see the opposite coming from you ever since wod. I mean I've already been through this, and I get it. It's not fun when you stop enjoying the class you've always enjoyed the most but many people have been there. I was originally a mage and for many years until they made changes and I stopped enjoying the class and swapped. I didn't blame the class for being poorly designed or what have you, because the class was perfectly fine, it was me who stopped enjoying its mechanics. So I found a different class that I enjoyed.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  19. #219
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jondar View Post
    What do their logs have to do with your logs? You aren't those players, and you don't raid in their group so it doesn't really matter. I thought you had raided and that's why you had so many complaints about Warlock, so I wanted to see where you could improve. Calm down.
    Oh my freaking god would you people stop with the "It isn't your group so it doesn't matter" mentality. Does that mean if your raiding group doesn't have spec X, spec X should just be removed from the game? You can't just look at performance in a vacuum. The fact that you won't get an all-star team consisting of every single number 1 player for each spec means that the performance of each individual is not going to be perfect in a single raid group.

    With that out of the way, can you people please begin to understand that the complaints are not (Usually) about being able to clear anything, but that there are very clear balance issues, which will hopefully be fixed next week?

    Seriously, is it that outrageous to not be clapping your hands in joy when it is extremely obvious that the class you are playing is quite underpowered? Every single person who posted logs here as a warlock who did relatively well in his/her raid group has also shown that everyone he/she raids with performed much worse than what is possible.

    Edit: Also, I think a big reason for the general unhappiness is that the difference between a good and bad DPS has never been this high (I think?). And I'm thinking about BALANCE here, not individual skill.

    And frankly, warlocks generally got shat on in Legion if you ask me:

    Healthstone still worse than healing potion.
    25% of current destruction talents were in some form baseline before Legion.
    Cool visuals removed to be given to others for no good reason.
    Resource system changed for no good reason (Destro).
    Affliction is severely undertuned, and has to rely on a broken artifact trait (The explosion on death needs to be changed, it is either too good or completely useless).
    No baseline interrupt, interrupt removed from GrimSac for no good reason.
    The tanky caster - Works for affliction, not enough for demo and destro (Which 7.1 may be fixing).

    And when it comes to shiny new toys, warlocks also got the short end of the stick. Affliction lost an engaging execute phase and soulburn, and in return got a passive damage increase from artifact weapon. So exciting!

    Demonology lost the most iconic demon form ever, and in return got to summon a couple of fel hounds every now and then.

    Destruction lost a ton of baseline stuff and a good resource system, some cool visuals, and in return we get a boring artifact ability, but also a lot of quality of life in havoc (+havoc talent) and shadow burn. Unfortunately those two also "dumbed down" the spec quite a bit, and havoc is very likely the culprit behind destruction trailing behind on single target DPS.

    There are just a bunch of weird changes with no good explanations behind them, and adding to that mediocre numbers just doesn't help.
    Last edited by mmoc738030ea5a; 2016-09-23 at 05:16 PM.

  20. #220
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jondar View Post
    What do their logs have to do with your logs? You aren't those players, and you don't raid in their group so it doesn't really matter. I thought you had raided and that's why you had so many complaints about Warlock, so I wanted to see where you could improve. Calm down.
    They reflect the general state of the class, in particular Affliction, which is the spec I would be playing in raid if I was to decide "hey, actually I'm not really in for rerolling after all". So far though, I've been disappointed in everything I already outlined many times already mechanically; and there isn't even stellar damage to soften the blow. I played and mained Warlock, Demo mostly, for 10 years. You have to appreciate I have a pretty strong attachment to that character and this class as a result. It's bad enough losing my favourite spec to the present travesty, but I'd had enough of a fondness for Affliction too.

    As it is, I can jump on my Mage and just be better and get more out of it in terms of engagement and fun.

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