Only one Archimonde? What?(Spoilers)

[gambit998]

See the idea i have for this is simple: 1 Azeroth (Ours) 1 Draenor (Ours know known as Outland). WOD the way i understood it was always there, and running its own natural course which would make it exactly the same as our timeline minus our own intrusion into it. IE: Garrosh, Kairoz ect.. This created a break off point from our series of events and WODs. We dont know if there is a AU Azeroth as most assuradly there is becuase Draenor would have to link to something when the time was right unfortunatly the fact that our 'intervention' might have actually stopped Guldan from finding AU Azeroth.

People seem to confusing Alternate Dimensions and Alternate Timelines....they are not one and the same.

[Dembai]

It's more like we're fighting only PART of each demon. Rather like how we only fight PART of each old God.

The demon's main essence is tied completely to the Nether, and unless we ENTER the nether and break that bond, they can be summoned again and again and again.

After all, look at Warlock Demons. My lock has had Phannos (her void walker) since Vanilla. You know how many times he's died? About a billion. Can she summon him back again? Of course. Several demons actually complain about their existence as being able to be brought back to life only to be killed and have it done again and again.

If you think back to Ner'zhul, and what Kil'jaeden did to him, Ner'zhul would not submit, but his essence was STILL tied to the Nether - enough that Kil'jaeden could kill him hundreds of thousands of times before ripping out that connection to the NETHER and putting it in the HELM and SWORD.

So while you can say "it transcends dimensions and alternative universes", I think waving that away as a "it's a paradox we can live with" and instead recognize that the Nether is eternal and constant, and exists everywhere, all the time, all at once. The only way to kill, TRULY kill a demon (or fel-linked being) is to enter the nether and sever the connection there. It's also why Demons can kill each other, and what's more, that they know the only way to stop a rez on a fellow demon is by removing the heart and chaining it or containing it somehow. (See Lock weapon intro quests)

Otherwise, given enough power, you can summon ANY fel-being from the nether and it'll be the same being it was in every other version of reality. Because time can be bent and warped and crushed out of existance, but the Nether is untouchable and constant. (which says that Malygos had more consistancy of power than his brother Nozdormu, and indeed, his power is completely separate from Nozdormu's!)

What's really interesting though is that we know that time passes VERY strangely inside the Nether. For instance, the creation of the Lich King involved apparently the equivalent of thousands of years of Ner'zhul's soul being tortured to death and being brought back to life. But if you look at the "real world time" between when Ner'zhul was ripped into the Nether for his betrayal, and the sucessful launching of the helm and sword into Northrend, only a decade or so had passed.

So the real question is, (and this would take someone like Kil'jaeden to answer it), how do demons form memories? Do they form them at all? If so, does the flow of time outside the nether effect them? If that is the case, how do they deal with the fact that (due to time warping) sometimes they appear in a place that doesn't have pieces of history they remember?

I personally think that the less intelligent demons that ponder it just ignore it for the sake of their own sanity (such as it is), but the smarter demons would know about the Bronze Dragonflight and probably roll their eyes about how stupid it is to let mortals into the freaking Caverns of Time (seriously though. How much trouble have we caused?!)

[Aquamonkey]

Yet killing Archimonde in the present he is still alive in the past and future.

He's alive in the past because he hasn't died yet. The Nether doesn't transcend time. Demons still experience linear time. Archimonde chugged along through the WotA until WC3 when he died. His spirit went back to the Nether and he was reformed. He went back in time to the alternate universe of WoD, where he supposedly died in the Nether (perma-death). Archimonde does not exist in the future after his perma-death, unless he timetraveled to the future from before he died in WoD. Or unless Blizzard goes back on the intent of his Mythic encounter.

MovieU - alive, yet to reach the tomb of Sargeras

Movie is a separate continuity from the games.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Yet killing Archimonde in the present he is still alive in the past and future. Regarding the 4, possible 5 Gul'dan floating in the TN

Archimonde was slain at Mount Hyjal (Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos), The Caverns of Time: Assault of Mount Hyjal (World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade), and Hellfire Citadel (World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor).

MU - dead, only his skull remains
AU - dead, torn apart in the Suramar night well
AU2 - unknown, after doomhammer destroys Lorderon it's up to speculation if he reached the tomb
MovieU - alive, yet to reach the tomb of Sargeras

AU2 is your head-canon. And MovieU does not exist with Warcraft lore, even the alternate universe. MovieU is a whole other franchise. Therefore: only two Gul'dans, both of which will be presumably dead by patch 7.2.

where he supposedly died in the Nether (perma-death). Archimonde does not exist in the future after his perma-death,

Archimonde clearly dies on Draenor, and therefore his soul returned to the Nether to recover and wait for a new body.

[Raetary]

Archimonde clearly dies on Draenor, and therefore his soul returned to the Nether to recover and wait for a new body.

as stated before, blizz is not sure if they want the mythic only phase to be canon or not.
so its still up in the air.

[Staalsy]

There is 1 legion, but several clones of every demon, that's why we have 4 Gul'dans, and 3 Jaraxxuses for example. They are not aware of their clones and can not interact with each other directly, only indirectly like leaving notes to each other, or artifact's like with Gul'dan and Gul'dan, and Ner'zul.

No.

10char/

[Deleted]

The nether transcends all realities, and because of that the demons do too.
Velen aint a demon, velen appeared.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Ok. So there is 1 version of each demon, but infinite realities.

So, let's check this out. Archimode was an erredar, who, at first, were not corrupted. So, at the beginning, there was an infinite number of Archimodes. What happened to the rest of them when the first one became a demon?

I know you might be tempted to say "they vanished". But then that would mean that none of those currently on Azeroth or friends to our factions from other planets ever had a single other version of themselves that was corrupted and joined the Legion... yet we know the Legion tries to lure most of us to them, simply for being one of the few worlds that resisted them. Yet simple minded peasants and such would refuse the power of the Legion in all the infinite dimensions? "Oh, but why would the Legion corrupt peasants or peons or such useless ones?" Because by doing so, in this context, would mean all other versions of him in all other realities disappear. So corrupting some peasant in Azeroth X might make a stormwind knight disappear in ours if it worked that way.

Then there's the other option, all other versions still remain, but when one Archimode goes from erredar to demon, it joins the "hive mind" of a single erredar while the other erredar non-corrupted Archimode,if there's any, remain where they are.
Ok, fine. But then we'd have the example of Mannaroth. He corrupted the orcs by bleeding for them, died, went to WoD, bled for the orcs, died again... so his daily habit is going to another orc world in an alternate Draenor every day and bleeding for them? Every single day, since he became a demon? And every single day, until the end of all universes (which, as far as we know,might be infinite)?

[RedNight at MMOC]

as stated before, blizz is not sure if they want the mythic only phase to be canon or not.
so its still up in the air.

Even with the Mythic-only phase, the cinematic is the same where Archimonde falls to the ground on Draenor, utters "Gul'dan! You made a pact...", and then sends Gul'dan through the Twisting Nether to Kil'Jaeden. Finally, the fel light in Archimonde's eyes go out.

[Deleted]

Oh, this also raises another question actually:
Let's say we killed Archimode in the Nether and thus, demon Archimode is dead. (this might not be true, but for the example).

But then, one day, Archimode the erredar from Alternate world X, who was not corrupted, decides he wants to join the Legion now. Does he die when he does so or does he bypass the demon Nether dying thing?

[Deleted]

One Question: With this one Legion in all multiverses stuff: Wouldn't it been by far more intelligent to teach a trillion Kil'jaedens and Archimondes how to be mortal Warlocks instead of turning them into Demons?

[RedNight at MMOC]

Ok. So there is 1 version of each demon, but infinite realities.

So, let's check this out. Archimode was an erredar, who, at first, were not corrupted. So, at the beginning, there was an infinite number of Archimodes. What happened to the rest of them when the first one became a demon?

One Question: With this one Legion in all multiverses stuff: Wouldn't it been by far more intelligent to teach a trillion Kil'jaedens and Archimondes how to be mortal Warlocks instead of turning them into Demons?

This is the part where Blizzard says not to worry about it because they will never use this as it is too confusing.

[Aquamonkey]

Even with the Mythic-only phase, the cinematic is the same where Archimonde falls to the ground on Draenor, utters "Gul'dan! You made a pact...", and then sends Gul'dan through the Twisting Nether to Kil'Jaeden. Finally, the fel light in Archimonde's eyes go out.

Is Archimonde really dead?
I can tell you our idea behind that. We might change it. This might not be canon. This might be something that we decide we're gonna tinker with. I'll try and explain what the thinking was. The idea was that the demons in the Burning Legion, they're kind of immortal in that they can exist across all the planes, unless they're killed in the actual Twisting Nether itself. So killing Archimonde at the World Tree in Warcraft 3... well, he was killed on Azeroth, but he would re-coalesce in the Twisting Nether and come back to haunt us again. And the idea was if you played in Mythic and defeated Archimonde, you actually defeated him in the Nether and that he'd be dead dead for good. That was the idea that we played with. We tried to explain that and I don't know if... that certainly doesn't come across in-game because it's not necessarily explained in-game. Maybe we'll change that. Maybe we'll change the canon of that. But that was the idea that we were working with... was unless you rip these demons out and take them to the Twisting Nether and kill them there, they'll always keep coming back. But maybe that's not canon. Maybe we'll tinker with that idea. (Source)

Oh, this also raises another question actually:
Let's say we killed Archimode in the Nether and thus, demon Archimode is dead. (this might not be true, but for the example).

But then, one day, Archimode the erredar from Alternate world X, who was not corrupted, decides he wants to join the Legion now. Does he die when he does so or does he bypass the demon Nether dying thing?

Why would he die? It'd be no different than the first time Archimonde became a demon. Regular Arch soul becomes demon Arch soul where there is no demon Arch soul.

One Question: With this one Legion in all multiverses stuff: Wouldn't it been by far more intelligent to teach a trillion Kil'jaedens and Archimondes how to be mortal Warlocks instead of turning them into Demons?

Why not both?

[Raetary]

Even with the Mythic-only phase, the cinematic is the same where Archimonde falls to the ground on Draenor, utters "Gul'dan! You made a pact...", and then sends Gul'dan through the Twisting Nether to Kil'Jaeden. Finally, the fel light in Archimonde's eyes go out.

again, they are not sure if they want it to be canon or not.
the cinematic means jackshit.

Is Archimonde really dead?
I can tell you our idea behind that. We might change it. This might not be canon. This might be something that we decide we're gonna tinker with. I'll try and explain what the thinking was. The idea was that the demons in the Burning Legion, they're kind of immortal in that they can exist across all the planes, unless they're killed in the actual Twisting Nether itself. So killing Archimonde at the World Tree in Warcraft 3... well, he was killed on Azeroth, but he would re-coalesce in the Twisting Nether and come back to haunt us again. And the idea was if you played in Mythic and defeated Archimonde, you actually defeated him in the Nether and that he'd be dead dead for good. That was the idea that we played with. We tried to explain that and I don't know if... that certainly doesn't come across in-game because it's not necessarily explained in-game. Maybe we'll change that. Maybe we'll change the canon of that. But that was the idea that we were working with... was unless you rip these demons out and take them to the Twisting Nether and kill them there, they'll always keep coming back. But maybe that's not canon. Maybe we'll tinker with that idea. (Source)

[FelPlague]

There is 1 legion, but several clones of every demon, that's why we have 4 Gul'dans, and 3 Jaraxxuses for example. They are not aware of their clones and can not interact with each other directly, only indirectly like leaving notes to each other, or artifact's like with Gul'dan and Gul'dan, and Ner'zul.

nice made up cannon

there is only 2 guldans, and the one knows of the other, learning about what happened from kiljaden and khadgar
where did you get 3 jaraxxuses from? each demon is unique, but the bodies we kill are just avatars, their souls are in the twisting nether, and we must destroy it to stop them from coming back

as the guy below you said

demons are players who can constantly just respawn after a respawn timer, the only way to kill them is to go kill the one controlling the charecter in their home

[TotemJoker]

AU Gul'dan has a different backstory, the legion contacted him when he was just beta.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3QJ8Pgjj3c

[Stardrift]

Velen isn't a demon.

[RedNight at MMOC]

again, they are not sure if they want it to be canon or not.
the cinematic means jackshit.

For now, it means everything.

[Seifross]

For now, it means everything.

No, it means literally nothing. To post the same thing as the last two people who quoted you:

Is Archimonde really dead?
I can tell you our idea behind that. We might change it. This might not be canon. This might be something that we decide we're gonna tinker with. I'll try and explain what the thinking was. The idea was that the demons in the Burning Legion, they're kind of immortal in that they can exist across all the planes, unless they're killed in the actual Twisting Nether itself. So killing Archimonde at the World Tree in Warcraft 3... well, he was killed on Azeroth, but he would re-coalesce in the Twisting Nether and come back to haunt us again. And the idea was if you played in Mythic and defeated Archimonde, you actually defeated him in the Nether and that he'd be dead dead for good. That was the idea that we played with. We tried to explain that and I don't know if... that certainly doesn't come across in-game because it's not necessarily explained in-game. Maybe we'll change that. Maybe we'll change the canon of that. But that was the idea that we were working with... was unless you rip these demons out and take them to the Twisting Nether and kill them there, they'll always keep coming back. But maybe that's not canon. Maybe we'll tinker with that idea. (Source)

So it's totally up in the air. Archimonde may or may not have died permenantly, because even the writers don't know which is canon yet.

[Deleted]

Try to think of it this way. Azeroth/Draenor are computer generated worlds that the entity known as Archimonde logs into. He can log in whenever as many times as his respawn will allow as often as it will allow it, unless you kill the entity who is logging in when it is logged out ,his "irl" which is known as the nether.

Savvy?

You can't kill the nerd's character, you have to kill the nerd himself.

Yeah, but you guys are missing my point here...

Every Velen in every AU ruled alongside an alternate Kil'jaeden and Archimonde who weren't demons yet. So do those Archimondes and Kil'jaedens merge into one... single Archimonde and Kil'jaeden?

And what about Sargeras? Does only one Sargeras visit every single AU to offer every single Velen, Archimonde and Kil'jaeden the deal, or are there many Sargerases(Sargerasi?)?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah, but you guys are missing my point here...

Every Velen in every AU ruled alongside an alternate Kil'jaeden and Archimonde who weren't demons yet. So do those Archimondes and Kil'jaedens merge into one... single Archimonde and Kil'jaeden?

And what about Sargeras? Does only one Sargeras visit every single AU to offer every single Velen, Archimonde and Kil'jaeden the deal, or are there many Sargerases(Sargerasi?)?

I believe the Titans are supposed to be or if I recall like demons transcend realities. At least that is what I remember. As for what you said, theoretically there should be a Velen in the Legion due to alternate Realities would...be interesting. Again though I doubt Blizzard will address it. I think Blizz is trying to distance themselves from WoD as much as possible.