From a Vanilla Player: The reason why I think WoW lost its glory.

[Hexxidecimal]

Can you ever have arcane missiles and critical mass from fire nowdays? Or even, shatter and cast a Pyro Blast? back then you defined yourself, you didn't have to pick up labels. If you only cast fire spells, you are a fire mage, and that was enough, It had alot of passives I agree, but you had free of choices on stacking here and there or even picking up from all tree talent specs. It was fun.

Yeah you had free choices of being bad and it was fun for you, but terrible for anyone who wanted to play with you. Choice =/= good. You liked it, I was just annoyed at having so many useless fucking buttons.

Not saying all the prunes were good. They aren't. But generally I prefer the more dedicated specialization design. You still have some spells shared among all specs and a bunch of useless ones removed. Bonus for me.

But that is what this all is at it's heart. Preference. Mine is different than yours and that is ok.

[Dug]

We need legacy servers.

It would make everyone happy and end all these discussions.

For all of a year until everyone burns through that old content in a few months because all the most efficient strats/builds and ways to play the game have been discovered already and make no mistake even these vanilla die hards are going to want to be as optimal as they can. Your average player today is leagues better than the players of old and the old bosses/content would be an absolute joke compared to the mechanics of today. The only people that would be satisfied are the PvP crowd because they don't care about doing the same thing over and over.

PvE junkies would be back to cry on the forums and demand more content but in "vanilla" style.

[McNeil]

Vanilla/TBC and Legion are whole different games, I wouldn't even compare them at this point. There's no ''better'' version, its all about personal preference. One is more focussed on the community, open world and journey to max level. The other is focussed on end game and storytelling.

[xhisors]

The game is the way it is because of the players, I agree. People cry about everything. Sadly.

I miss the days that epics were rare, exclusive to raiders and weren't handed out like candy, I miss the days of leveling actually taking some time, I miss the days of actually getting to know people on your server. Times have changed and in my opinion, only for the worse.

Thing is gear was never really rare except vanilla.. The only thing that people should miss is the community of a server where your reputation if you did terribly in a pug/raid you were not invited back. Do you honestly want the game to take 4 months to get to max level? Of pure strait grinding? Thats the problem with nostalgia, its not so great when you actually start doing it again. Sorry I don't want to grind mobs in the plaguelands from 56-60 again. Especially when the main focus of the game is at max level.

The games 1-110 leveling experience is fine how it is, it needs to be faster and have an option of slowing it down for story that you enable/disable by talking to someone in the starting zone. Or maybe they could have this new zone scaling that they have going on throughout the entire leveling experience.. who knows. I've said it before but theres a reason why you get a free 100 when you buy legion. Its not just an incentive, its to keep people playing instead of leveling through old obsolete content for 2 weeks or more.

Vanilla, TBC, WotLK are a great memory and thats all they should be.

[Jotaux]

What's optimal in raids may not be optimal for other content. This holds true even in Vanilla.

I didn't say anything about raids. I said that things are more difficult when you play sub-optimally.

[Yunru]

Why I keep reading the game is easy and dumb and meanwhile only 1% (?) of players clear all mythic content before its nerfed?

Because its made like this. Super hard at start...then it gets dumbed down. And most people see it as pointless, since its gona get nerfed in future again and this is why there is almost no kills.

What is the point to sweat blood and tears on something so pointless, if you can just be patient till its normalized. Unless you realy have a dedicated players who want to be top 100 or something, its pointless.
And even then its totaly pointless, unless you are backed up by some company that offers you some real world reward.

Oh did i mention, if you want to join a guild like this, you generaly need to pretty much make a job application.

I did raiding like this back in vanila, tbc and woltk and i can tell you its pain (and it also eats all your free time for something else). Couldnt even play other new games due to dedication.

...........................................The old hardcore raider..................................................

[Extremities]

WoW is exactly the same it was years ago.

The only thing that changed is the info, and the accessibility of things making everything "faster" for everyone.

Back in Vanilla, 0.01% knew the existence of elitist jerk forums and how to discuss tactics and new things found that the "average WoW player" shouldnt know.

Back in TBC, MMO champion appeared and did the same thing with a more WoWish, prettier theme, from 0.01% the 0.1% knew the existence of mmo-champion.

At the end of TBC they unlocked their files and data mining became a thing and MMO Champion became so overly famous, along with another site, what was it? World of Raids?

The easier to read mmo-champion won the battle of data miners and became oh so famous.

Stop acting like a special snowflake.

The game is simply much more accessible and the information is so widespread thats why everything happens faster.

If LFG is removed, if data mining is removed, you are gonna have 99% of WoW population running around in 800 ilevel, crying about taking 2 hours to find a dungeon group and 3 hours to do a simple group quest.

Everything was changed for QoL improvements..The whole delusion of talents and bullshit every single times astonishes me.

Fact is, if you had a different spec than the top mages in your server, you were running Karazhan when others were running Sunwell, you special snowflake.

Lol, no no no, not even close my friend. The game(while I do enjoy it) has become EXTREMELY easier on all fronts. Everything. Leveling... people max lvl in 1 day.. Years ago, nope this didn't happen. Epics are now handed out easily.. years ago, nope not so much. I could go on and onnnnn and onnnnn. It's still a fun ass game, don't get me wrong, but saying it's still the same is completely, 100% wrong.

[anon5123]

I know their intention is to make the game easier for new people, but they should not forget that when we once started playing back then, what made us enjoy the game itself was this same complexity that is going lost progressively.

Casuals and Facebook "gamers" are now the majority of the playerbase, so Blizzard is catering to them by dumbing the game down with every expansion. In addition, they've sacrificed community in favor of convenience, with cross-realm zones and cross-realm LFD.

We're never going to get anything close to vanilla ever again, since the majority of the playerbase would find it unpalatable.

For all of a year until everyone burns through that old content in a few months because all the most efficient strats/builds and ways to play the game have been discovered already and make no mistake even these vanilla die hards are going to want to be as optimal as they can. Your average player today is leagues better than the players of old and the old bosses/content would be an absolute joke compared to the mechanics of today.

Solution: Release schedule, like so many private servers have done.

Release MC+Ony, then release the rest of the raids/patch events and such on the same timeline that they were originally released.

So no, everyone will not "burn through it in a few months". Especially considering that just getting to 60 takes a good 3-4 weeks, and that's if you're playing 3 hours a day, every day.

[Hexxidecimal]

Because its made like this. Super hard at start...then it gets dumbed down. And most people see it as pointless, since its gona get nerfed in future again and this is why there is almost no kills.

What is the point to sweat blood and tears on something so pointless, if you can just be patient till its normalized. Unless you realy have a dedicated players who want to be top 100 or something, its pointless.
And even then its totaly pointless, unless you are backed up by some company that offers you some real world reward.

Oh did i mention, if you want to join a guild like this, you generaly need to pretty much make a job application.

I did raiding like this back in vanila, tbc and woltk and i can tell you its pain (and it also eats all your free time for something else). Couldnt even play other new games due to dedication.

...........................................The old hardcore raider..................................................

What does and doesn't have a point is pretty subjective thing.

Some non-wow nerd could wonder in here and be all "PLAYING VIDEO GAMES IS POINTLESS NERDS!!". At their perspective they aren't wrong, but for us, for me at least, he is wrong. It has point and meaning to me.

So if you want the challenge, you can go for it. You don't even need to be top 100. Maybe you just want the satisfaction of beating something at the height of it's difficulty. Maybe that is what is enjoyable for people.

[Demonidze]

even if we came back to WoW vanilla today we would just min max the shit out of everything. back when WoW just started there was no sims, no mods, nothing... playing the game was a big adventure with everything new. every place is a mystery... thats why it was awesome. and the game cannot go back to that, simply because how educated we are now with PTR, data mining, youtubers with guides for literally anything, mods that tell you what to do and where to go.. so yeah, if we all traveled back in time to WoW vanilla it would be a horrendous experience imho.

[Hexxidecimal]

even if we came back to WoW vanilla today we would just min max the shit out of everything. back when WoW just started there was no sims, no mods, nothing... playing the game was a big adventure with everything new. every place is a mystery... thats why it was awesome. and the game cannot go back to that, simply because how educated we are now with PTR, data mining, youtubers with guides for literally anything, mods that tell you what to do and where to go.. so yeah, if we all traveled back in time to WoW vanilla it would be a horrendous experience imho.

This.

I mean there is plenty of people who legitimately like Vanillia WoW. But the greater portion of folks, would NOT be down for Vanilla.

[Extremities]

Thing is gear was never really rare except vanilla.. The only thing that people should miss is the community of a server where your reputation if you did terribly in a pug/raid you were not invited back. Do you honestly want the game to take 4 months to get to max level? Of pure strait grinding? Thats the problem with nostalgia, its not so great when you actually start doing it again. Sorry I don't want to grind mobs in the plaguelands from 56-60 again. Especially when the main focus of the game is at max level.

The games 1-110 leveling experience is fine how it is, it needs to be faster and have an option of slowing it down for story that you enable/disable by talking to someone in the starting zone. Or maybe they could have this new zone scaling that they have going on throughout the entire leveling experience.. who knows. I've said it before but theres a reason why you get a free 100 when you buy legion. Its not just an incentive, its to keep people playing instead of leveling through old obsolete content for 2 weeks or more.

Vanilla, TBC, WotLK are a great memory and thats all they should be.

Epic gear was rare. You didn't see everybody and their mother with it. Now, ever single player is decked out in epics.

I enjoyed the leveling experience as did many others. It felt meaningful, it felt like you were actually progressing your characters strength. Now, levels don't mean jack shit as they're only a mere number. You felt that strength increase gaining a few levels. Would I level up again grinding? Hell yes I would becuase I enjoy grinding. I hate being forced to quest non-stop with no other means of progressing my character. At least back then you HAD options of how to level. Now, its all streamlined by forcing you to quest. Dungeons gives basically nothing, killing mobs give nothing. Questing is the ONLY way to progress your character. PvP experience is practically nothing. As much as I disliked WoD, it definitely had a better leveling system in it than Legion(and I love Legion so far). WoD you could at least grind for levels should you choose.

[Dug]

Solution: Release schedule, like so many private servers have done.

Release MC+Ony, then release the rest of the raids/patch events and such on the same timeline that they were originally released.

So no, everyone will not "burn through it in a few months". Especially considering that just getting to 60 takes a good 3-4 weeks, and that's if you're playing 3 hours a day, every day.

I really think you underestimate the modern players need to burn through content as quickly as possible. Even with a release schedule it'll be like today where content is cleared so quickly and then you have months of bitching about boredom until the new stuff comes out. Rinse and repeat.

Not to mention leveling took that long because the game was new and people were exploring the game and going in the most suboptimal questing routes possible. We know everything about vanilla WoW and nothing is a secret anymore. The most efficient leveling paths are available and people will take them even if they claim they loved vanilla for the "adventure" (psst.. see "new").

[xhisors]

even if we came back to WoW vanilla today we would just min max the shit out of everything. back when WoW just started there was no sims, no mods, nothing... playing the game was a big adventure with everything new. every place is a mystery... thats why it was awesome. and the game cannot go back to that, simply because how educated we are now with PTR, data mining, youtubers with guides for literally anything, mods that tell you what to do and where to go.. so yeah, if we all traveled back in time to WoW vanilla it would be a horrendous experience imho.

Bolded for truth.

[Tiev]

I am absolutely loving playing fire mage. Also enjoying my prot warrior and my resto druid.

This is coming from a vanilla hardcore raider (I don't raid as hardcore these days anymore). I don't see it the way you do.

Are there less buttons now than there were way back when? Maybe. But I never used mocking blow in raids in vanilla or hamstring or a couple of other abilities. To a raider, you always had less buttons than the spells in your spellbook. They're simply not in your spellbook anymore.

I feel like you have enough complexity these days and even better, the complexity should come from raid encounters and not class-abilities.


Not sure this is the same for PvP but I don't pvp and never cared about it, so can't comment on that.

[Apsychicrat]

Epic gear was rare. You didn't see everybody and their mother with it. Now, ever single player is decked out in epics.

I enjoyed the leveling experience as did many others. It felt meaningful, it felt like you were actually progressing your characters strength. Now, levels don't mean jack shit as they're only a mere number. You felt that strength increase gaining a few levels. Would I level up again grinding? Hell yes I would becuase I enjoy grinding. I hate being forced to quest non-stop with no other means of progressing my character. At least back then you HAD options of how to level. Now, its all streamlined by forcing you to quest. Dungeons gives basically nothing, killing mobs give nothing. Questing is the ONLY way to progress your character. PvP experience is practically nothing. As much as I disliked WoD, it definitely had a better leveling system in it than Legion(and I love Legion so far). WoD you could at least grind for levels should you choose.

I asked before and i will ask again, why is it people having purple pixels bothers you. why do they matter. shouldnt the guy who has an Ilvl of 895 be more impressive? or is it that you cant tell that they have 895 at a glance the problem?

[Sturmbringe]

@Alvorea:

I fully agree.

Frankly I have lost hope that WoW will ever be what it used to be, which is why I haven't bought the expansion and I no longer play. The best way I could describe Retail WoW is "Communism". Everyone is the same with everyone else, everyone gets to have what the other guy has.

The other things you say, i.e. all classes feel the same, all classes play the same, no community, no big guilds, no socialization etc have been said here 1000 times, and Blizzard is very well aware of our views (as J. Allen Brack noted) and they disagree. They want to develop their game in a different way which they believe will yield much profit.

It is all about the money. Back when the game was really good, the people who run Blizzard were just like you and me, they were people who only wanted to make good games and played the games they developed. After Activision took over, WoW was not developed in the previous style but started being steered towards what the then Developers believed would fetch max profit. This completely ruined WoW and altered the game into something else almost beyond recognition.

The only hope there is to experience original WoW is that Blizzard decides to run Classic, TBC and WOTLK servers. Believing that they will ever change the current WoW to make it like the first three incarnations of the game is a pipe dream since the current version of the game is still liked by some and makes them some money still. They have no incentive.

No point to continue, I think this discussion is a waste of time.

[McFuu]

I'm a huge fan of Tree builds, but Vanilla 's tree talent system was bad. There was no alt paths, there was only 1 or 2 functional builds per class. If you want to play a game with a good tree, go play Path of Exile. You'll see immediately why it is a better tree system, but you'll also notice something else about playing. You hit 3 to 5 buttons Max. Mainly 2 main talents, and 2 to 3 other buttons that are your main talents but with different runes applied to change the effects. It's brilliant, but the game play is repetitive.
Wow actually has rotations, and a player's mastery of that rotation defines them, not there cookie cutter build.

[oodle]

That is the problem, it is about fun, and you can have fun by feeling the game more personal, even when not always winning. Everything is about competition nowdays, and all the fun are left behind.

But what If I find fun in the competition and winning (which I do). Oh look your argument now is void

I want to be the best possible and I don't know about you, but I kind of like winning. Most humans do. Typical argument from a non competitive shitter though. Dur the game was fun coz we didn't have to be so serious. Yeah but I like being serious and I find fun in being the best.

[Icoblablubb]

o look another Vanilla expert who knows everything just get hired by blizz or make yo're own company and do it better