From a Vanilla Player: The reason why I think WoW lost its glory.

[shonist]

i want to say something, coming from a new player (me) that joined WoW in late MoP.

You all veterans, sounds always the same, "before was better".

i understand your passion, but it seems that you are hard to adapt.
im pretty sure that some other guys like me, had an arsenal of game on steam and other platforms and after a working day, we dont want to spend an hour to find a tank on the spammy trade chat as many other says. Or having to run across all azeroth to get to the entrance of the dungeon. (Wtf).
or do all the quest available and grind mobs for weeks to be level max.

Tbh i think i have game that gives me more fun and entertainment without losing my entire day.
Yet im playing legion of course and a lot of hours grinding but its ok. this time i like it a little more.

Imo its the best game i can play because of raids. any game that i could download will sate my needs of progressing on bosses. (tried like every mmo out there).

i think wow losed its glory from the PoV of old players, but its real glory for me when i get home to play. and with lfg tools i dont need to be talking to 12yo childs the whole day.

This same will happen to me when WoW has no raiding and the game became about some type of playing that "young kids" likes to play in that era. idk.



tl;dr: WoW rules.

[bergmann620]

And those "people" are not the majority of players.

That was my point.

It wasn't / isn't the majority of players. But it's certainly the majority of players complaining about too little content, especially if they're doing so on MMO Champ.

I wasn't arguing that.

Nice strawman.

So, you were saying it was longer and more boring, but better for it?

[Kul Tiras]

As a pre-bc (vanilllaaaaaa, because we're all from my little pony) player, i fucking hate that era of wow and i fucking hate how practically nothing has changed in game since except make the time WASTED grinding gear just take less time. Nothing has changed otherwise.

All in the name of everquest MMO ideals, may they burn in piss alongside steve jobs and the generation of technological illiterates he helped create.

[bergmann620]

i want to say something, coming from a new player (me) that joined WoW in late MoP.

You all veterans, sounds always the same, "before was better".

I started playing in November 2004, and the game is better right this second than it's ever been.

[mistahwilshire]

The only thing that made Vanilla good was that even the top guilds were relatively terrible and no one had any idea what they were doing. The information age has brought down the quality of all gaming as a whole, and there's nothing you could ever do to bring back that sense of discovery, in WoW or even a brand new MMO.

Gaming is effectively solved in its current interfaces.

[Deleted]

Another freaking vanilla vs *insert current state of wow* ?

Freaking hell...OK lets start this off.

1. In Vannila you had a lot of spells yes, but rotation wise you used 1 maybe 2 spells maximum. Other spells were just a flavor thing or a useless thing that was just there fill your action bars nothing else. Now? you have at least a minimum of 3 spells in every single rotation out there ( yes even BM has at least 3 buttons ) and tons of other USEFUL abilities not random trash that does nothing at all.

2. You had a choice of many talents yes, but all those talents were just a simple +5% block chance, + 5% more shadow dmg etc. It was not really a choice, more like a filler or a silly glory point just to make you "feel" like you acomplished something. Now? you get 7 rows of 3 talents each, that's 21 MEANINGFUL choices not empty % talents that do nothing or just boost your dmg by 5%.

3. Not all specs existed or were viable in Vannila. For instance, arcane did not have spells that could fill out a full spec. instead it had support talents that helped fire/frost to do more or survive more aside from arcane missiles. Paladin was only a healer. Warrior was only a tank. Warlocks just spammed shadow bolt no matter what spec. I would not be able to play my ret paladin back then because well...the spec did not even exist because those talents were just jokes on a paper. Now? all specs can level, all specs can do dungeons, raids, pvp, world pvp, anything really.

Overall vanilla was hard because the mobs/bosses had high health/damage nothing else, no mechanics or anything just pure numbers. The community was good back then yeah but as was stated before the game is 12 years old now...people aged and new people came, if Xrealm was not here you would likely not see anyone in any zone... pvp back then was just " are you a rogue? you win pvp ! " or in the other instance " are you not a rogue? you lose! )

[Craaazyyy]

first of all OP is right in almost every way..

secondly ppl always forget that there are other things to do in the game other than raid.. so if you're telling that in, for example, Vanilla your PVE rotation was easy and you werent using like half of the spells you had IT DOESNT mean that ppl who were pvping werent using them either

and at last Vanilla wasnt the pinnacle of ANYTHING.. it wasnt the best, especially when it comes to how complex it was in terms of your character being hard to master.. the classes were progressively getting harder to play from Vanilla up to Cata(maybe not all the specs especially in PVE, but again folks, there are other things to do in this game)

and about specs.. ppl think that vanilla/tbc/wrath talent system wasnt as good cause everyone essentially was using same talents.. yes for the most part alot of players were using the same talents, but again for example in TBC as a disc priest i remember having like 8 different specs with ALOT of talent changes based on comp i play and comp i play against(im talking about arenas).. it was a pretty big deal.. in wrath it was similar, but with less talent changes that were making difference(atleast for classes i was playing).. then in cata they removed alot of talents from talent tree and made it easier and there were way less choices.. then in MOP they completely revamped the talent system and brought new system and i thought it was a good change, but only if they would be able to make the talents in every row comparable to each other in terms of performance.. they werent able to do it.. some classes had good choices and they were swapping talents from fight to fight, from comp to comp.. but alot of classes were using same talents ALL THE DAMN TIME.. they also started removing abilities that they thought ppl werent using that much or they thought were breaking the game WHILE ALSO adding more gamebreaking AND DUMB shit every expansion since mop..

some guy mentioned how you were always USING one curse all the time.. ye you probably were using one curse in pve, but in pvp you were using ALL OF THEM

[bergmann620]

The only thing that made Vanilla good was that even the top guilds were relatively terrible and no one had any idea what they were doing. The information age has brought down the quality of all gaming as a whole, and there's nothing you could ever do to bring back that sense of discovery, in WoW or even a brand new MMO.

Gaming is effectively solved in its current interfaces.

I disagree. The biggest thing is you have to keep people actually in your game. They did a pretty excellent job in Legion compared to the past- I only jumped out to look something up 4-5 times from 100-110.

They could go a bit further by removing some encounter difficulty and replacing it with logistical difficulty or slightly elongated pacing, which would allow for a less 'try-hard' play style. I think they could also go a bit further regarding incentivizing the building of social bonds.

Gaming isn't any more 'solved' than reading or watching a movie is. If you can't let go of 'seeing the matrix' when it comes to gaming/mmo conventions, I feel bad for you.

[mistahwilshire]

I disagree. The biggest thing is you have to keep people actually in your game. They did a pretty excellent job in Legion compared to the past- I only jumped out to look something up 4-5 times from 100-110.

They could go a bit further by removing some encounter difficulty and replacing it with logistical difficulty or slightly elongated pacing, which would allow for a less 'try-hard' play style. I think they could also go a bit further regarding incentivizing the building of social bonds.

Gaming isn't any more 'solved' than reading or watching a movie is. If you can't let go of 'seeing the matrix' when it comes to gaming/mmo conventions, I feel bad for you.

Discovery was what made WoW interesting to begin with. Once you know how 1000% of all mechanics work, and you're killing Mythic bosses as practice on PTR before they even hit live, there is absolutely ZERO discovery left and all intrigue is lost.

The world can never be like it was in 2005 again because of the internet. Gamers and gaming media approach games systematically now, because really every fucking possible system of progression available within the confines of game code have been tried and tested. Due to the limitation of the numeric system there's really only so many systems you can try, and now we're at the point where the industry regurgitates these systems in various combinations over and over again to the point where nothing can be new anymore.

Look how quickly hidden artifact stuff was torn apart. Blizzard said they'd hoped that would take months. Took days. That's the magic that was lost from WoW and all of gaming when the internet exploded and knowledge of game systems became common place.

[Deleted]

My resume and HOW i look it:

WoW Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK: MMORPG (WOTLK until ICC patch)

WoW Cata/MOP/WoD/Legion: MMO-Hack and Slash

The game is just different, that's all.

[Sturmbringe]

Another freaking vanilla vs *insert current state of wow* ?

Freaking hell...OK lets start this off.

but rotation wise you used 1 maybe 2 spells maximum.

So let me see. As a Hunter, I used Aimed Shot, watched the Auto-Shot bar so I would not clip my Auto-Shot and thus butcher my DPS, Multi-Shot, Rapid Fire and Troll Ability Berserking. In addition, I had to kite adds and thus use my explosive trap or frost trap, volley, distracting shot/disengage and multi shot and then feign death and re-trap and at the same time kite.

So, in the first instance I had to monitor five (5) different abilities, and in the second, while kiting and having a bunch of NPC's casting at me, without a pocket healer mind you, I had to use seven (7) different abilities, and if I failed I wiped the raid.

If you haven't played Vanilla just shut it, lest you get ridiculed by those who really have.

[Dangg]

I remember when WoW lost it's glory in 2006 when they started to hand out PVP welfare epics.

[deniter]

My resume and HOW i look it:

WoW Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK: MMORPG (WOTLK until ICC patch)

WoW Cata/MOP/WoD/Legion: MMO-Hack and Slash

The game is just different, that's all.

Yeah, that's pretty accurate. I agree.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Because you have never played the game seriously.

All that needs to be said, really.

[DaveL]

somehow, this video is still relevat against topics like those..



Just remember what and how many things you had to do to be useful in groups, guild or raids.
You surely don´t want to do those now. If you "enjoy" something, that doesn´t mean the other people will enjoy it too. And also, the majority doesn´t want this as well. Because if they wanted to, it wouldn´t be in the state as it is now.
I was 14 back in vanilla, had tons of time, farmed mats for potions and resist gear for my guild. I´ve spend two days in week by just doing that for the guild that had to have those things in raid where they spent about 10 hours of progressing.
Now i have job, other stuff to do and i´m glad for "just" world quests, rep grinds and quests that are gated behind rep requiements. That means i don´t really have to do it 8hrs per day all week just to get somwhere. Only 2-3 hours daily will do and it doesn´t limit me from anything.

[Kagthul]

warlocks was one of the classes with the most spells in vanilla and bc

yet our rotation was one of the most simple... curse and basically shadowbolt (abit of dot in BC) we wernt allowed to put up dots in vanilla cause our dots were shit in comparison to other things that needed to be on the boss

a large spellbook does not equal difficulty/complexity... we had a ton of curses... but it was obvious what one to use, and some of them were literally never used except for like one fight

Spoken like someone who feels that only raid content is relevant content.

In a Vanilla/TBC 5-man, i could regularly (as a warlock) be putting (4) DoT's on up to 3 targets, keeping a target seduced, keeping a target feared (and using Curse of Recklessness to juggle it so it wouldnt run out of range) - sometimes juggling two mobs on fear, and keeping a mob banished, with Curse application varrying between bosses.

[Rotted]

Yea I can agree with its dumbed down so to speak. But if we retained it like it was in Vin and TBC, then we wouldn't have a game to be honest. It wouldn't pull in decent numbers

[Deleted]

The game is moving towards a complete dumbed down and simplified version of what it was years ago.

Well this is certainly new and refreshing discussion....

[Ifeanychukwu]

That might be true, but they need Cross realms to survive.

Or maybe if they'd ever been willing to merge servers when populations started to get low on certain servers like people had asked for for years. If they had occasionally merged a couple of the servers that were becoming dangerously low population they could have maintained server communities. But I suppose if they did that they'd end up with an empty world in lower level areas so maybe they made the best choice overall. Certain low pop servers had a certain charm about them though... I remember on my very first server (Dentarg) you would recognize almost every name you'd see in trade and there were certain people that were really well known on the server, either for good or bad. I remember that server was crazy imbalanced though, something like 20:1 horde to alliance ratio. Even then it wasn't really too terrible. My guild was friends with a few horde guilds, we'd jump in vent together and do some friendly trash talking while PvP'ing. We used to have an event every Sunday called ganksquad where we'd all gather in STV for the fishing contest and have battles between opposing guilds. There were KoS lists and when someone would get guild we'd call in guildies and they'd call in their guildies and we'd fight it out wherever we happened to be. Those were good times...

[tonic316]

WoW was more interesting because how I could, with hard work, differentiate my characters, like, my mage, from every other mage in my realm. I am not talking aesthetically only, but my build chosen, profession chosen, my gear chosen, the number of spells available to me for different purposes other than damage itself (remember amplify magic? Buffs? Mana Shield? Evocation?). Those spells made playing Mage something interesting, It was like, if you had enough time playing and learning your class, you could really be better than the other mage guy by just using your arsenal wiser. I could be half frost and half fire before specializations, I could have Ice Barrier and Fire Nova by going down both talent trees, trying different things was fun, PvP and PvE wise.

Hate to break it to you but there was never choice. Just the illusion You specced what everyone else did or you were not going to be successful at the game. good luck getting a raid spot not being a holy pld, or resto shammy.

I know their intention is to make the game easier for new people, but they should not forget that when we once started playing back then, what made us enjoy the game itself was this same complexity that is going lost progressively.

What complexity? The game only seemed complex because there was no mmo-c or wowhead or icy-veins to tell you what to do.

Ps.: Even Artifact weapons is bad in my opinion, you end up being with the same very weapon as everyone else. Not fun at all.

You know what's not fun? Being stuck with a shit weapon for months on end because the one I need refuses to drop in a raid.

I feel like BG's nowadays are no different than a match of Counter-Strike, no trinkets procs, no profession stuffs and no anything that would make you feel different from the other guy, where all are the same thing and what really matters is your skill, internet connection and communication. It is good to have your skills in such a place where they are essential for the gameplay, but your time investing should be rewarded with a more personalized, customized and fun experience with your character.

So you're mad you can't go be op in pvp with that pve weapon you got? You have to actually be good at the game to be good at pvp? lol

I think you have the rose colored goggles on too tight. I'm glad you didn't bring up boss fights because boss fights now are a thousand times better then anything vanilla had. Vanilla was "load up decurse and spam it" and deal with this one other mechanic. Not hard at all. The only hard part was wrangling 40 other people. Lets also not forget having to be a warlock and farm 40 shards before raid. Or go pick mushrooms for hours on end. Or go farm mara resist gear. Or be a pld blessing everyone the whole time. If you find that last one fun you have a broken brain and don't know what fun in a video game is lol.

We only enjoyed vanilla because the alternative was way worse. IE - Everquest losing all your equipment. And FFXI having to party to level up and being able to de-level.