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  1. #121
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    Lots of good posts here !

    I definitively don't feel like I play on a server anymore .. or immersed in the game at all.

    Everything seems so interface-ish if that makes sense.

    Now that I think about it damn Vanilla was magic. There were a lot of issues too, like balancing was really really bad (even worse than LEGION if you can believe that).

    At times you even were lost in the world. Feeling the despair.
    You knew the enemy horde/alliance team in battlegrounds and hated them with a passion.
    Things needed figuring out. I knew everything about LEGION before the game even came out.

    One thing that is still good is raid encounter design. I always loved raiding ( I don't consider LFR to be raids and I consider people who only go LFR to be lost souls who are missing the best experience WoW has to offer ).
    Normal raiding nowadays is way too easy though. It should be called easy-mode or come-in-and-loot and heroic should be called normal again. Though probs to Blizzard for fooling the bad players that they achieve something.

  2. #122
    This is what I hear -

    "I miss getting special treatment from people in game for spending enormous amount of time doing things sane people with a life would never do. No one really cares or realizes how stupid it is now and this makes me sad. I blame Blizzard."

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    I'll give them to you, but it's nothing to do with WoW.

    1) The game world was fresh and new, and there were brand new sights and experiences everywhere.

    2) Your friends were still playing.

    3) You didn't have a full-time job or kids or a house or a spouse, so you could literally exist in Azeroth for 10 hours on a Saturday if you wanted to.
    1. Every game is like that, including expansions. There's always a burn out in every game, don't expect 100% work from the devs.

    2. Really? Cause, I have an entire guild still online, as well as friends that are playing as well. My guild had over 140 peeps online during WoD, and my guild wasn't even that big. Not to mention that many of my friends were still playing before legion pre-patch ever happened.

    3. Uhh....what? I mean, don't people have lives outside of WOW? You can't just play it 24/7 and expect there to be content left, right? That's both a quick burn out, as well was wasted spoiler hiding potential.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ji-tae View Post
    Lots of good posts here !

    I definitively don't feel like I play on a server anymore .. or immersed in the game at all.

    Everything seems so interface-ish if that makes sense.

    Now that I think about it damn Vanilla was magic. There were a lot of issues too, like balancing was really really bad (even worse than LEGION if you can believe that).

    At times you even were lost in the world. Feeling the despair.
    You knew the enemy horde/alliance team in battlegrounds and hated them with a passion.
    Things needed figuring out. I knew everything about LEGION before the game even came out.

    One thing that is still good is raid encounter design. I always loved raiding ( I don't consider LFR to be raids and I consider people who only go LFR to be lost souls who are missing the best experience WoW has to offer ).
    Normal raiding nowadays is way too easy though. It should be called easy-mode or come-in-and-loot and heroic should be called normal again. Though probs to Blizzard for fooling the bad players that they achieve something.
    What is this, 2004? This is a rated T for teen game. Expect the game to update itself, as well as become easier. This isn't everquest, where you had to spend over 3 hours trying to find out where the fuck the trash mob is. This is an mmorpg that is catered to teens, and because of this, the game needs to become easier, it needs upgrades, it needs addons, it needs much more than just hours and hours of pure rage and unease.

    Say what you want, but..i'm sticking to my mind that...well...Vanilla wow sucked.

  4. #124
    Agree with OP. Most specs have been rushed in Legion and are not fun and too simple to differentiate a good player from a bad one.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    This is what I hear -

    "I miss getting special treatment from people in game for spending enormous amount of time doing things sane people with a life would never do. No one really cares or realizes how stupid it is now and this makes me sad. I blame Blizzard."
    Holy shit. I agree 100%, this post describes every legacy server baby ever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Agree with OP. Most specs have been rushed in Legion and are not fun and too simple to differentiate a good player from a bad one.
    Dude...bro...if you think this is bad, then...you wouldn't even look at vanilla.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrenna View Post
    I can't imagine how the game can possibly be dumber now, when dps rotation was hitting 1 button that throws a missile, may it be frost bolt, fire bolt or shadow bolt.

    Sure you had lots of spells, most of which were utterly pointless because they dealt next to no damage in the wrong spec, or worse, took up a debuff slot on raid bosses, (back when you couldn't apply unlimited number of debuffs, which was SO MUCH FUN for sure btw).

    Talents offered an illusion of choice, with some talents mandatory while others were outright pointless and impossible to use in any build. Waiting 50+ levels to get your spec's signature move made the game slow and clunky.

    All WoW has lost is archaic game mechanics.
    This is pretty true, but I find the interesting part of the conversation is what's defined as "archaic game mechanics".

    For example, as someone who played in classic as well, things like Recklessness-fear kiting mobs indefinitely, knowing how long things need to live to make Curses worth it, knowing which classes Dark Intent benefited most for both myself and the recipient, and what bosses were safe to go into melee to use Meta's Immolation Aura were all things I knew well and loved knowing well. The current WoW feels like it's peeled apart these little class quirks to the extent that doing a DPS rotation is as bland and straightforward as "Can you use this thing? Does it need any setup? If not then use the thing, or if there are adds and it cleaves maybe wait a few seconds and use the thing for more damage".

    There's a lot of truth to the fact that it's hard to separate yourself as a good player anymore. This can be seen as a good or bad thing, but I've personally always hated the removal of abilities like these for classes. There are small signs of stuff like this returning (ret paladin blessings are a good example despite the fact that they could have really been implemented better) and it gives me a bit of hope but I'd like more stuff like this back. WoW feels very bare-bones and unwilling to give synergistic gameplay anymore.

  7. #127
    I am Murloc! Phookah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvorea View Post
    That is the problem, it is about fun, and you can have fun by feeling the game more personal, even when not always winning. Everything is about competition nowdays, and all the fun are left behind.
    To you maybe. I have a lot of fun while still being competitive.
    It's almost like everything you just said was pointless, because enjoyment and quality are subjective
    hmmmmm

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Agree with OP. Most specs have been rushed in Legion and are not fun and too simple to differentiate a good player from a bad one.
    This makes me miss the complexity of Vanilla WoW. I can still remember watching all the raid videos on how to play a frost mages and spending HOURS and HOURS getting my rotation just right. Pressing 2 then 1.5 seconds later pressing 2 again and then 1.5 seconds later pressing it yet again. It took me WEEKS to finally get it down perfect. You could really tell the mages on the server who were better by looking at their talent tree, because they all figured out how to spec it the same. Man I really miss the complexity of Vanilla, Legion is such garbage compared to that.

  9. #129
    80% of the comments show wrathbabies claim how bad current WOW is, and how they want their legacy servers.

    19% of the comments is full of "Current WOW vs Vanilla WOW" stuff.

    And 1% of the comments show common sense, loving WOW the way it is.

  10. #130
    As someone who played Vanilla and raided very competitively, there was no alternative for people who didn't raid. Dungeons were largely ignored in terms of adding more content. PVP was still in its early infancy and if you didn't PVP there was little outlet for you outside of raiding. Gear wise if you raided you pretty much crushed everyone else who didn't in PVP. This game will constantly change and adapt and grow for better or worse because the group that first started playing this game is not the core group that drives it now.

  11. #131
    As a vanilla player: Sorry, you are simply looking at vanilla with your rose tinted glasses.
    I used to raid in vanilla as a Mage and later as a Rogue. Things were not harder, in fact i'd say most mythic content now is harder. You know what was hard ? You had to grind so fuckin much for everything. You needed SO MUCH TIME to play it. You actually had to go through a mindless and boring grind to get to the content that truly mattered. And when you got there it was a mess because half the classes were subpar. You couldn't play whatever you want because some classes were simply shit. Also, 40 people was a mess to organize.

    While i hate Flying and Cross Realm Instancing ruined local servers, WoW didn't lose it's glory because it was harder or anything. We changed. Back in 2004 i had 19 years, i had all the time in the world to play. Now i'm 31 and i have a family. But i still love WoW, the spark is still there. My Mage is still the same. But only rarely i'll have a full weekend of WoW because i have other priorities now. Everything changes and if you can't have fun with WoW anymore it's time to move on.

    There is nothing wrong with moving on. Blizzard didn't expect you to play WoW for 12 years straight like some of us do. Move on for another game. For me, WoW is still the best game out there and the only one i can log in and lose myself in and forget everything shitty about the rest of the world.
    English is not my first language, feel free to point out any mistake so i can keep learning.

  12. #132
    WoW changed at Cataclysm, it's a new ¨era¨.
    And forget it, your old memories will never comeback

    You see after 10 seasons, a serie is removed from TV becuae it sucks, unless it's The Simpsons and keep putting crap for the last + 10 years.Sometime you'll find a good episode to watch.

    Of take your favorite band, after 2 albums they split for new project or they suck. Sometime they will put a new song and you will remember the old day's.
    Unless you're a rock band like Iron Maiden a put the same things for the last 25 years.
    Same goes for WoW, same goes for everything, we get tired.

    When Legion came out, It's like ¨ohh yes lets start over again for the 5th time or is 6 or 7 time I don't remember, but lets start this shit again.
    Let's gather stuff, escort someone, loots some corpse, kill 10 animals and gather their eggs to make some food.
    Take fly path, change zone go for a run with friend to get some loots.

    Yes, I've been doing this for the past 12 years and no, It's impossible to live TBC again and be anxious to go in Suramar like I was for that portal in Outland.
    Now we want it over before it start, fuck the questing, i want to kill stuff and not to learn to play my class again with all the talent and shit.
    I'm happy they keep it simple and I don't want to go throught a Vanilla talent tree trying to make an hydrid healer/dps.

  13. #133
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    There are at least several design decisions that lost WoW's glory, but not one alone did it. For example in the TBC the idea of a daily quest was awesome, but today it's hated because it's abused. Back in WOTLK, Heroic was an awesome idea, but today we hate it. Part of it is execution, and the other part is abuse. The idea of hard mode wasn't a bad idea when it's done like Ulduar, but afterwards when it became a switch and now we have 4 switches for a single raid, it became a bad idea.

    But not all ideas start off good. Going from old WoW talents to new is universally hated from the start. LFR raid was given criticism immediately. Then there are things that were added to the game that does nothing for the game, like Pet Battles. While Pet Battles don't ruin WoW, they do take precious development time, which is sorely needed elsewhere in the game.

    Then there's the environments, which got dull and lack lore. After WOTLK, the connection between the world and lore seems missing. To give you an idea, I loved the path of the Titans in WOTLK. It's a road that runs from Ulduar down south, and there's lore to that. It's minor, but it's what gave the world life and history. Then you have a lack of challenge to reward ratio in the game. Some things are just thrown at me, and some things I could spend months and never acquire. There's also no challenge to the game, unless I do Mythic raids. Mythic isn't just challenging, it's a life change since I'll be logged in certain days of the week, with people that may or may not hate me, to try and down a boss that some other Guild downed easily.

  14. #134
    Deleted
    By reading this also i can feel something:

    Most of you people say that Vanilla farming, raiding, etc...was tedious and grindy, now is more dinamic, etc etc etc. Well...i think that today's gamers are just more lazy than the gamers of 10 years ago (lazy in the sense of...people wanting the reward faster faster faster), plus, the terminogy "gamer" change A LOT in 2010.

    For me, i don't tedious on old WoW. I don't see dumb and easy the retail WoW of today. I enjoy both, just i like more the old game, that's all.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    Or maybe if they'd ever been willing to merge servers when populations started to get low on certain servers like people had asked for for years. If they had occasionally merged a couple of the servers that were becoming dangerously low population they could have maintained server communities. But I suppose if they did that they'd end up with an empty world in lower level areas so maybe they made the best choice overall. Certain low pop servers had a certain charm about them though... I remember on my very first server (Dentarg) you would recognize almost every name you'd see in trade and there were certain people that were really well known on the server, either for good or bad. I remember that server was crazy imbalanced though, something like 20:1 horde to alliance ratio. Even then it wasn't really too terrible. My guild was friends with a few horde guilds, we'd jump in vent together and do some friendly trash talking while PvP'ing. We used to have an event every Sunday called ganksquad where we'd all gather in STV for the fishing contest and have battles between opposing guilds. There were KoS lists and when someone would get guild we'd call in guildies and they'd call in their guildies and we'd fight it out wherever we happened to be. Those were good times...
    It was a strange combination of events that happened. The game changed enough (Cataclysm and beyond) where many people no longer would sub for the entire duration of each expansion - certainly not like they used to. Also, Blizzard was attracting a different crowd while watching many of their founders quietly exit. Blizzard begun to realize that these drops were inevitable because of their "new" game design, yet populations would spike again for each XPac.

    So in order to not speak badly of their own expansions losing population shortly after release, they begun the X-realms to give the illusion of a populated game to paying players.

    Community suffered - more. As if random PUG LFG / LFR wasn't bad enough for communities.

    I guess it can be argued that Blizzard did what made sense as far as cross-realm ... but I can't personally excuse them for mutilating their bread-and-butter game to start with (which caused this mess to begin with).

    When I played Vanilla and TBC, I WANTED to log on to see what new happened in my guild. I read our guild website and all the posts. This shit mattered.

    Nowadays? Pfft, who cares. The current game design makes caring about anything other than yourself inconsequential.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiacRR View Post
    By reading this also i can feel something:

    Most of you people say that Vanilla farming, raiding, etc...was tedious and grindy, now is more dinamic, etc etc etc. Well...i think that today's gamers are just more lazy than the gamers of 10 years ago (lazy in the sense of...people wanting the reward faster faster faster), plus, the terminogy "gamer" change A LOT in 2010.

    For me, i don't tedious on old WoW. I don't see dumb and easy the retail WoW of today. I enjoy both, just i like more the old game, that's all.
    It's not lazier, its better design. Why should someone have to spend hours and hours of their life doing a repetitive, dull, tedious task so that their character can do .05% more damage. No one in their right mind would do that, only people with deeper personal issues would.

    It's like you want to feel special for something and all you have to do is put in time in the game and you'll be special in the game, but the game has taken that feeling away from you more and more and now you're sad about it or something and blame Blizzard, yet it all stems from your inability to face your issues with yourself.

    The old way was super unhealthy for 100 different reasons and that partly is why it changed. All you hardcore people can get the h$%^ out of the game and go be toxic people somewhere else.

  17. #137
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    I would like to see all "I am a Vanilla Player" posters required to prove that they were also legally able to buy and consume a beer during that time period, because it seems like much of the nostalgia comes from Vanilla having been their chance to be a cool kid when they were 14.

    No, the world isn't going to seem the same seen through the eyes of a 26 year old looking back and I notice we don't have that many posters in their 30s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity87
    12 years ago most people didn't go online to look up the best talent builds, they took what looked exciting. If the old talent trees were in the game today I guarantee groups would be denying people because they didn't take the best talents.
    That did, however, start fairly early on. Sites now dead or on life support were full of flame wars over things like whether a rouge (sic) should ever used maces and how many points into a tree one should go.

    One of the big changes that I think gets overlooked is that sites like this have less impact today. Everything has shifted to watching videos of kills and setting up something like Weak Auras to keep you on your rotation while DBM tells you when to move and GTFO screams to remind you to stop standing in the fire. Those are things that players have added, and while some elements from addons have made it into the game much of what they add to simplify our lives isn't really a Blizzard addition -- it is added by us. The game is still there and playable with the basic Blizzard UI, but who does that?
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  18. #138
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mhorrg View Post
    I've always put it down to cross realms.

    WoW was awesome when your server was a community and you only interacted with each other. As more and more cross realm elements were added we lost the community and community is what makes MMOs good.
    I can't argue that cross realm elements didn't kill server communities. I believe that it did. However, I will say thank fucking god for cross realm elements. My friends list grew over the years due to the number of contacts I made on other servers. Before cross realm elements I had maybe 20 close friends on Uther and when I transferred to Blackrock I had a similar amount after being there awhile(and Blackrock at the time had a huge population). When I retired midway through WoD my battle.net friends list was well into the hundreds (it had been at 100 for a long time but at some point in WoD the limit was increased).

    Server communities were ok but no server community I ever experienced, in any mmorpg, resulted in the large number of close friends I made via cross realm connections. Nothing compares to being able to play with a wide variety of people that I genuinely like, that I genuinely enjoyed playing with, that played the game the way I like to play it. Cross realm made the ability to find those kinds of people significantly more easy. Honestly, if it wasn't for cross realm elements, I would have retired far sooner. And really, if cross realm functionality had been expanded, meaning I could raid the highest levels of the game without switching servers, I probably would have stayed around in WoD even longer and I'd probably be subbed for Legion.

    It still surprises me, given how easy I made friends via raid finder, how people feel the game is less social. The social avenues of the game greatly expanded for me with the addition of those cross realm elements. Mileage varies for everyone of course; anecdotal is anecdotal.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    This makes me miss the complexity of Vanilla WoW. I can still remember watching all the raid videos on how to play a frost mages and spending HOURS and HOURS getting my rotation just right. Pressing 2 then 1.5 seconds later pressing 2 again and then 1.5 seconds later pressing it yet again. It took me WEEKS to finally get it down perfect. You could really tell the mages on the server who were better by looking at their talent tree, because they all figured out how to spec it the same. Man I really miss the complexity of Vanilla, Legion is such garbage compared to that.
    Why are you comparing with vanilla?

  20. #140
    zzz

    wow lost part of it's glory because devs give peoples like op too much credit, they really need to release vanilla server we may get rid of those once and for all.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

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