Which EN bosses which spec? BM/MM

[Deleted]

MM is generally very very good in EN.

I've only done 3 bosses so far but the only one of those where I suppose you could make an argument for BM is MAYBE Ilgynoth so you can beast cleave the ichors down. The thing is though, MM is still good at that with MS and barrage, and for everything else in the fight it's also really good - cleaving multiple, spread tentacles etc.

I have heard that BM pulls level with MM in single target when you get to about 26 points. If this really is the case then I could see potential on pure ST fights obviously but also fights with alot of movement. I just don't buy the argument that "good players don't need to worry about movement as they plan around it". It's a flawed argument imo as, on progression, alot of movement isn't predictable as you are still learning the encounter. In addition, even if you plan around movement, you will still lose abit of DPS any time you could be casting aimed shot but aren't. So yeah, if BM at 26 actually pulls level with / ahead of MM for single target then it will likely see a hell of alot more use.

[sarym13]

Any fight with adds just go MM. I personally go BM for Nelth, I might try it on Ursoc too. The rest of the 5 I just switch to Marks.

[MatthewOU2015]

Hopefully the tuning pass brings BM to MM level. I dislike MM and really don't want to play it.

[Deleted]

Did Ursoc, dragon and Cenarius last night. All favour MM currently - Ursoc is just pure single target burn with relatively little movement apart from handling his charge (normal mode here), dragons are mostly single target with some priority swaps for adds and the odd bit of AoE, Cenarius was abit of a clusterfuck but we still got him down - spread targets, single target DPS on adds - all MM specialities.

So far it seems an extremely MM friendly instance.

[Tsuya]

No, Blizzard is doing it wrong. It's up to them to correct it instead of making their player base jump through hoops keeping both artifacts leveled just in case their tuning changes things. The problem is compounded now with artifacts.

Exactly this. I've been telling my guild this exact thing for months now, and ive been constantly swatted down. They don't seem to understand that if blizz ruins the spec with tuning, then its going to take a ton of extra effort to bring the "new hotness" back in line with what you previously had. sure, this might get faster in coming weeks due to AK, but overall any AP spent on a different artifact to your primary spec is totally wasted.

[Dracodraco]

According to the Warcraftlogs MM is number 1 overall among all classes in the game at the moment (in the default 75% percentile, heroic EN, all bosses category)

Looking boss by boss it doesn't seem like BM is ahead of MM in any boss.

Take this with a big grain of salt though as Warcraftlogs can be misleading. Although its nice to see our class on top of any chart

Which is heavily inflated by a boss such as Il'gynoth. That boss is almost 100% singletarget priority, with random cleave killing off the small bloods no matter what your raid setup is - it just so happens that if MM hunters actually make an effort to AOE the bloods rather than do what they do second-best (singletarget burst priority stuff down), they get fucking HUGE numbers due to the fact that bloods are too spread initially to allow most classes to AOE them.

Make no mistake, MM is great this tier and will likely end up as the best / most versatile / usefull spec in EN as long as it doesn't get nerfed, but padding is still padding; I'm not impressed by a MM hunter that's 40-50K ahead of the pack on Il'gynoth because he managed to squeeze a barrage and 2x sidewinder-marked shots into the pack of adds that spawns, obliterating them before they even reach the eye because "LOL BIG DICK DPS". Remember, the overall score just takes the average of every fight; Any fight that has a huge amount of adds that can be padded on with burst AOE is going to skew MM ahead. Doesn't actually mean MM is the "best" for spider-roc boss either; It just means some sneaky hunters figured out that they could pad on the ton of spiderlings that spawns during the intermission, before someone stomps them dead instantly (not that this is a BAD thing if they're barrage-misdirecting the tank, for example; It's just... Not actually usefull, contributing damage).

[Jayeazy]

Which is heavily inflated by a boss such as Il'gynoth. That boss is almost 100% singletarget priority, with random cleave killing off the small bloods no matter what your raid setup is - it just so happens that if MM hunters actually make an effort to AOE the bloods rather than do what they do second-best (singletarget burst priority stuff down), they get fucking HUGE numbers due to the fact that bloods are too spread initially to allow most classes to AOE them.

Make no mistake, MM is great this tier and will likely end up as the best / most versatile / usefull spec in EN as long as it doesn't get nerfed, but padding is still padding

What? It's not even "padding". You can cleave down tentacles that are across the room from each other at the same time, cleave down a whole pack of corruptors that spawn at the far end of the room with our ridiculous 50 yard range and then cleave down packs of bloods while losing not a single bit of priority damage on a single target like a horror or other tentacle. In no way is that padding; effective cleave on shit that needs to die while losing literally no priority damage on a main target is what you want and insane for mm right now. That kind of damage is in fact "usefull, contributing damage" and is an incredible strength. If you're NOT positioning yourself to hit multiple targets at a time you'd just be wasting your potential as mm.

[Dracodraco]

What? It's not even "padding". You can cleave down tentacles that are across the room from each other at the same time, cleave down a whole pack of corruptors that spawn at the far end of the room with our ridiculous 50 yard range and then cleave down packs of bloods while losing not a single bit of priority damage on a single target like a horror or other tentacle. In no way is that padding; effective cleave on shit that needs to die while losing literally no priority damage on a main target is what you want and insane for mm right now. That kind of damage is in fact "usefull, contributing damage" and is an incredible strength. If you're NOT positioning yourself to hit multiple targets at a time you'd just be wasting your potential as mm.

As already said - MM is good. But you can't seriously think that the people that are getting the good ranks (EG, the ones dragging the spec up) is prioritising their attacks on the high prio targets. They're going to be doing good cleave, which I already said - hunters are fucking amazing. But the ones dragging the spec up are unlikely to be the ones playing *properly*, and likely to be the ones just trying to hit as many targets as possible with no regards for anything else.

I never said hunters aren't good. If you read my post, you'll see I'm saying they're fucking great and may very well be the best class for EN, period. What I'm saying is that numbers get inflated because people do stupid shit to get higher numbers. That's the only way to explain stuff like the spider boss (which is 100% singletarget with very, very minor cleave when the 3x spiderlings spawn during the big-boss-aoe attack) ranking MM so highly. Padding. Be it by accident or on purpose.

[Jayeazy]

just trying to hit as many targets as possible with no regards for anything else...
...I never said hunters aren't good. If you read my post, you'll see I'm saying they're fucking great and may very well be the best class for EN, period

First of all I don't see why you defend yourself so hard about saying they're not good, because I never implied that in any way. But I will maintain that taking advantage of the ability to single target a corruptor across the room and cleave every other type of tentacle, ichor or horror that needs to die in the way without losing a single bit of main target damage is nowhere near "stupid shit" that is artificially inflating the spec. And no, aoe on Ichors is not stupid padding. If you finish the fight, it's assumed that they were all (or enough of them) were dropped at the eye like they should be, so there's no reason to call any damage on them improper. Spiders during the transition of Renferal and however it is that people are aoeing trash on Nythendra are like the only examples of stuff that actually doesn't matter or shouldn't happen, but that is small and we're not the only class doing that.

[Azortharion]

You realize that the Mythic mechanic dictates that all bloods must die at least 4 seconds apart, this makes indiscriminate AoE on the bloods a no-go.

[Jayeazy]

You realize that the Mythic mechanic dictates that all bloods must die at least 4 seconds apart, this makes indiscriminate AoE on the bloods a no-go.

I also realize that Mythic is not yet open so the parses mentioned here are N/H. Whatever works best for mythic won't change what works best for what's unlocked now either.

[Azortharion]

Yeah, but no one really cares about N/H numbers, the issue is people taking N/H padded parses and trying to draw conclusions on them for Mythic, so he's pointing out that using them to draw any meaningful conclusion on that is going to be misleading because MM is inflated by player behaviour on N/H that would be considered needless padding on Mythic.

[Tehterokkar]

Il'gynoth is a joke boss anyway. The only thing that might cockblock it on Mythic is damage requirement for the heart phases(though, that could be fixed with 2 or more Shadow Priests going Surrender).