Why the hell are they nerfing Vengeance damage in PvE?

[Delimit]

lol what raid? Tanked 7/7 on N and 6/7 on H(will finish Xavius before week is up too) and it's an absolute joke. Hell when I'm in the dream I can take up to 11 stacks on Xavius. If you're having problems with viability in normal or heroic you're doing something wrong. Now, problems may arise in bleeding edge mythic progression but that's all there will ever be for DH tanks. A DH tank properly geared for the fight he is taking on almost never needs outside healing to stay alive.

If you think a 10% damage nerf effected Vengeance healing much at all I just can't help but think you don't even play one. Hell, I didn't even notice the nerf until it was confirmed on live and still don't. You still do laughable AoE for a tank spec, and you still do more self healing then needed in the vast majority of situations.

If you think a DH doesn't need outside healing, I can't help but think that you don't even play one.

Had me thinking I was still on the Monk forums reading that nonsense.

[Tech614]

If you think a DH doesn't need outside healing, I can't help but think that you don't even play one.

Had me thinking I was still on the Monk forums reading that nonsense.

If you actually need someone to target you with a cast heal you're doing something wrong. That isn't even up for debate on current content.

Mythic bleeding edge will be a different story, but 1) it's not out yet and 2) less then 1% of the community is bleeding edge and going to be doing it while undergeared.

Call me when prot wars are sitting at 11+ stacks on Xavius and able to tank him the entire time you're in the dream. They can but it's hard, it's flat out faceroll on a Vegeance right now. People not understanding Vegeance on this forum is pretty widespread and it's hilarious. The spec at worst case scenario is middle of the pack for bleeding edge and flat out broken when geared appropriately.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

What? How can you do less dps then a blood DK on single target?

[Delimit]

If you actually need someone to target you with a cast heal you're doing something wrong. That isn't even up for debate on current content.

Nonsense.

Logs of you going through heroic EN with no outside healing or go back to trolling Monk forums with your ridiculous statements please.

[Jieun]

Think it's just you because our demon hunter blew the meters up still doing great 300k and up dps on AoE and single target keeping it real at a fluctuating 200k - 300k range.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...spec=Vengeance

Something is not quite adding up here

[Yorgl]

Nonsense.

Logs of you going through heroic EN with no outside healing or go back to trolling Monk forums with your ridiculous statements please.

Agree, I'm not saying the class isn't fine (cause from my modest PoV it's totally fine ^^), but saying you actually do current content with only HoTs and your own heals to keep you alive requires logs to back your claim @Tech614 . That's sound pretty surprising, to say the least. :/

[Struggle]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749384995

The damage nerf hit CWB by 50%. The math is sourced above.

Plain and simple, if you think a 50% nerf to CWB, Fel Devastation, and Soul Rending isn't a big deal you're wrong.

[DeuZWw]

You know what REALLY makes me upset?
Spirit Bomb.
Spirit Bomb gives you 10% Leech basically. So you will heal for 10% of your damage done.
They nerf all our damage in 10%.

So, Spirit Bomb now, instead of giving you 10% extra heal. it actually makes you heal "normally" like it was on pre-nerf. I guess.
At the very least there should have been some buffs on talents.

[Tech614]

Nonsense.

Logs of you going through heroic EN with no outside healing or go back to trolling Monk forums with your ridiculous statements please.

Let me get right on linking you those private logs kiddo. It's not hard to figure out, actually try it. Stop panicking because your health fluctuates or play a different class.

[Jazzhands]

Let me get right on linking you those private logs kiddo. It's not hard to figure out, actually try it. Stop panicking because your health fluctuates or play a different class.

I'd link you my logs of myself soloing all of EN, but they're private, sorry. Trust me though, you can do it. Just go try it.

Now watch while no one believes my claim because I can't back it up with actual evidence.

[ehxy]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...spec=Vengeance

Something is not quite adding up here

I was talking about havoc my bad hahaha

[Deleted]

I'd link you my logs of myself soloing all of EN, but they're private, sorry. Trust me though, you can do it. Just go try it.

Now watch while no one believes my claim because I can't back it up with actual evidence.

Hes always been full of shit anyway, Every-time i see him post anything on this forum it's some outrageous claim.

[Marhault]

While the 250k hps is exaggerated, I was almost solo healing myself for 45 seconds at a time tanking H Cenarius due to the raid being far away. I can't keep it up for the entire 9 minute fight but it isn't out of the question to do large spurts of self-healing. We aren't in an unviable spot.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&target=20

We messed up bad on the end of the fight (And some people during the fight...) but during the periods that the adds are up (Basically the entire time that the thorns aura is up) the raid was moving too far away to heal me outside of Beacon. Between 3xDemon Spikes, Fiery Brand, Demon Spikes, then Fel Devastation, it wasn't like I was in danger of dying.

[tehdef]

The listed changes on MMO-Champion are tooltip updates because all tank damage was nerfed by 10% across the board effectively on the 20th.

Nope, wrong. Only DH was nerfed by 10%. Every other class has abilities that overlap with other specs, and those abilities were not included in the "tank nerf". DH Tank has no standard abilities that overlap with Havoc. Thus, all the of the Vengeance abilities were hit by 10%.

[Tech614]

While the 250k hps is exaggerated

Except it's not, you will never see those numbers thanks to overhealing but tank Xavius at 11 stacks and look at your healing meter then get back to me. When you're taking 2.5 mil damage a second and there is no over healing involved it actually shows the potential that is there. Not to mention you can have bursts of 400k+ HPS with FD, and bursts of 300+k while Meta is active. God forbid if you ever had to combine the 2 to survive you may burst well over 500k.

Basically people that don't understand the class still complaining they suck at it. Stop randomly spamming soul cleave and maybe you guys wouldn't need so much outside healing. Educate your healers on how the spec works and maybe they won't complain to you so much. If anyone thinks the class needs "buffed" at this point they flat out don't know what they're doing, and if they think the nerf did anything at all to the viability they simply haven't been playing with it and are panicking based off numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, wrong. Only DH was nerfed by 10%. Every other class has abilities that overlap with other specs, and those abilities were not included in the "tank nerf". DH Tank has no standard abilities that overlap with Havoc. Thus, all the of the Vengeance abilities were hit by 10%.

You should read it again. Abilities that overlap with other specs weren't nerfed for the OTHER specs they where still nerfed for the tanks.

[Jazzhands]

Except it's not, you will never see those numbers thanks to overhealing but tank Xavius at 11 stacks and look at your healing meter then get back to me. When you're taking 2.5 mil damage a second and there is no over healing involved it actually shows the potential that is there. Not to mention you can have bursts of 400k+ HPS with FD, and bursts of 300+k while Meta is active. God forbid if you ever had to combine the 2 to survive you may burst well over 500k.

Basically people that don't understand the class still complaining they suck at it. Stop randomly spamming soul cleave and maybe you guys wouldn't need so much outside healing. Educate your healers on how the spec works and maybe they won't complain to you so much. If anyone thinks the class needs "buffed" at this point they flat out don't know what they're doing, and if they think the nerf did anything at all to the viability they simply haven't been playing with it and are panicking based off numbers.

So... You're taking 2.5 Million DPS, and you don't need a single outside heal? Yeah....

Top parses of Vengeance on Heroic Xavius are mostly showing DH's around 100k HPS with only 20%ish overhealing. That math isn't quite adding up..... I'm taking 2,500,000 damage every second (This is, what, 75% of my HP?), and yet even fulling bursting my CDs I can only accomplish up to ~500,000 damage healed every second according to you... so how do you sustain outside of Meta and FD? Soul cleave only heals for ~300k non crit (An 858 DH averaged 280~ per cleave over 61 cleaves on heroic Xavius, don't give me shit about it doing 400+ all the time) and fragments/CWB do piss all usually. The parse I used :https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=4 (See what I did there? I supported my claim with evidence!) This is the #3 DH for heroic Xavius.

You're full of shit.

You also continue to simply say "We're good on Xavius, look we can do something other tanks can't on one fight so we're fine, y'all just don't understand the class!" Being good on one fight is called filling a Niche, and being a niche tank is not good, so this really doesn't help your argument.

Once again, link us some logs or just stop, your blatant exaggerations of your skill and the potential of this class isn't impressing or convincing anyone, because you have absolutely zero proof of what you're saying, you're simply talking out of your ass trying to make yourself look cool or something.

[Bryntrollian]

Nope, wrong. Only DH was nerfed by 10%. Every other class has abilities that overlap with other specs, and those abilities were not included in the "tank nerf". DH Tank has no standard abilities that overlap with Havoc. Thus, all the of the Vengeance abilities were hit by 10%.

I think you need to read those notes again and try to comprehend them properly this time.

[Shibito]

They did need a nerf though, and is unrelated to tank nerf...

yea cause HAVOC isnt needing a nerf either.

[Bloodydemize]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...7&type=healing I did 126k HPS for our kill, though we were only taking 3 stacks. Definitely have improvements to make. At my peak moments I was hitting 250k to 285k hps but it's definitely not something to sustain.

[Yorgl]

Let me get right on linking you those private logs kiddo. It's not hard to figure out, actually try it. Stop panicking because your health fluctuates or play a different class.

x'D
I can't tell if it's more embarassing or funny. :')