I dont see many survival hunters around

[bloodmoth13]

And given the state of Survival do you think they succeeded? What does the pet do? SV rotation would be completely unchanged if pets didn't exist. Mastery, our pet interaction" is a terrible stat, and if it read "your auto attacks" rather than "pet attacks" would anyone notice? I suppose Flanking Strike is a thing, but that's only because Raptor Strike might as well not exist, and if our pets were removed and it's damage buffed nothing we do would be different.

Compare SV pets (and hunter pets in general) to Water Elementals and Ghouls and it's laughable that we're the "pet" class. Where are the buttons that make them do things? What's the point in having a melee tamable pet class when the pet is there for nothing but appearances? Like, if pet damage was reduced to 0 and hunter damaged increased by whatever %, what would the difference be other than we're better on target swaps and less susceptible to kiting/roots?

Poor argument, if the abilites of your pets were on you instead would you notice could be used for all pet specs, though in all honesty practically no pet class really makes great use of their pets, but pet control in this game is clunky. I mean, would you notice if direbeast applied a dot instead? or if a ghouls chomp was a player cast spell?

Survival has a rotational use for their pet, but you say thats not interaction? same as BM, what do DKs and mages use? cc and water jet? would you notice if water jet was player cast instead of pet cast?

[Kwaai]

Poor argument, if the abilites of your pets were on you instead would you notice could be used for all pet specs, though in all honesty practically no pet class really makes great use of their pets, but pet control in this game is clunky. I mean, would you notice if direbeast applied a dot instead? or if a ghouls chomp was a player cast spell?

Survival has a rotational use for their pet, but you say thats not interaction? same as BM, what do DKs and mages use? cc and water jet? would you notice if water jet was player cast instead of pet cast?

Ghoul is far superior to Hunter pets. Leap+Gnaw is great because it means you can stun a ranged target. The fact that it's not on the DK means it can be used while CC'd, or mid GCD, or when you don't have any resources. Unholy also buffs it's pet, which is at least something it does that involves it. Mages, likewise, get the benefits of Water ele abilities usable while out of LoS, or while CC'd, or during casts.

I don't really consider Flanking Strike to be a pet interaction because it's still only usable if we're in range, and even if our pets didn't exist (and the ability was completely unchanged) we'd still use it for lack of anything else to do. At least Kill Command has the effect of making BM pseudo-melee. Meanwhile, Unholy has Dark Transformation, Deathgrip, and Graw. Frost gets Freeze and Water Jet. BM has Beast Cleave, Bestial Wrath, and Kill Command. All of these are activated or have some impact on how you play the class. Likewise, moving them to the player would affect their usability.

Is that the case with SV? I'd argue not, but if you think that Flanking Strike or Hunting Companion is anywhere near as interesting as Leap/Grip/Gnaw/Freeze/Jet I think conversation is pointless.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Survival went from SoO gameplay, to WoD, and then to melee... I don't care how fun a spec is, I can't play melee and that's that. Motion sickness is a major bitch.

- - - Updated - - -

There are a lot of melee classes but only one class with a bow. If I wanted a melee class I would have played one of the melee classes not a hunter.

Amen to that.

[n7stormreaver]

I think the biggest problem is that people who rolled hunter did so because they wanted to be a ranged dps class. Most of those players dont want to play melee dps.

After seeing what the did to Warrior in Legion, i've used my free level 100 to up a Hunter, just to play SV, an was maining it ever since, because i've figured that hunters have a great class hall and essentially a new spec should at least be fun.

Now, i see that it was a huge mistake and my proposal to Blizzard is to write in all red caps next to Hunter class selection "Do not play Survival, we've changed this spec just to waste our time."

And now it seems i'll have to go through all the atrocious time-locked grind again with an actual melee class or discard Legion. Will be missing Hunter's Lodge though.

[marzix]

As someone earlier said, the problem with Survival hunters is it feels clunky. Doing Mythics I was almost always top dps, even beating MM and BM hunters, then I get to a raid and these same DPS people are doing close to twice the damage I am, yet my overall DPS has stayed the same. The ramp up is so much and the procs are so random, and they have to be when you want them to really maximize your DPS. I feel like the Mongoose Bite buff should just be static at whatever the 4th stack of damage is and each attack increases the buff duration by 1.5 seconds. There were so many times where I use my traps, lacerate, mongoose 1, then eagle mongoose 2, 3, then I am feared or stunned or have to move out of melee range and my stacks end up dropping. What's worse is when I get my 6th stack and then click on fury only to not have it go off due to something and stacks drop. So many times where the fight is going on and I have to just use fury with 3 stacks because some phase change or target change is about to happen and it's either use it then or wait for 30 seconds. Of course, then when buff drops, I get lucky procs and back up at 3 stacks again with everything off cd. The stacking nature of the buff makes the damage at the end really nice, but in a raid, it's so difficult to do successfully. Doesn't feel like my fault, but the mechanics of the spec/abilities.

My best time for damage was during Dragons fight, and even then there were times I had to just use Fury at 5 stacks or have to wait.

I don't really play other classes, but most of the other raiders were pretty consistent with their damage from 1 fight to next while mine was going up and down a ton. I'd rather just have a slightly higher base with less randomness in the burst. As an aside, I wish the triple throwing daggers was just one bigger axe or dagger. seems weird in melee to be doing it.

[Fenixhart]

I get so sick of seeing this shit. Hunters had melee moves until MoP because if you were within 3yards of us or something we could do 0 ranged attacks! They existed purely because the dead zone existed. Stop using this as an excuse for any sort of melee hunter spec. You just sound foolish to anybody who actually has played the class before MoP.

Sup, Played Hunter since Burning Crusade.

Dead Zone was long gone before they took melee out.

They even had an aspect to buff Melee damage.

Melee was always part of the Hunter fantasy, it just couldn't click well witht he design for a long time.

Pretending otherwise while the Poster Boy Beast Mastery Hunter was rocking axes is just sticking your head in the sand.

[marzix]

Of course they ruin the Poster Boy Beast Mastery Hunter by making him survival, while continuing to dual wield axes in Legion... Rexxar was always my favorite lore character above all the others, loved doing the attunement quests with him for I think it was Ony back in Vanilla hoping I could get 2 cool axes and be like him.

I picked Hunter at the start because I played Everquest as a Monk main (who had Feign Death) and wished I could play a Beastlord (a melee dual wielder with a pet). Hunter fit that, even though I didn't like range, not like I wouldn't be able to stand next to my pet anyways (boy was I wrong).

[Pantalaimon]

Because if we wanted to play melee we wouldn't have rolled Hunters in the first place.

The original survival hunter spec was actually a lot closer to melee & ranged hybrid that the pure ranged version we had for so many recent years. See abilities like Wing Clip for reference. So yeah in a way some that have been playing awhile might have rolled a hunter for at least some melee play.

[munkeyinorbit]

As long as we don't have statistics, it is hard to say how much people are playing this spec. However, calling it failure is just pure BS. Even if this spec is not played by many, however performs well and it is fun, it is just great spec not played by many.

However, what I know for sure is inevitable (if survival hunter wont be changed back to ranged - which I would hate), player base around survival hunter will grow...period. In year by now, everyone who will be rolling hunter will have melee aspect of hunter in mind and fact, that he can switch between ranged and melee is same benefit as switching between caster ranged DPS and melee DPS (shaman for example).

I understand many ex-survival players are not happy about this transition, but in the long run, game is well designed and will be played. It just need new generation of hunter players. That's all.

If the spec is not played by many even though it is smooth and fun to play and does great damage.

That's some great shit-posting right there. You just said If the spec is a failure it is not a failure. Deal with it. Expac is three weeks old and the spec is done already. It may be fun but melee players dont want to play it cause it has range specs and range players dont want to play it because it has a melee spec and there are multiple other classes that does melee better.

I also like how you gave ample evidence to state why survival will be well played in a year or so. Just like monks were. Oh wait. That didn't happen.

[threads]

Sup, Played Hunter since Burning Crusade.

Dead Zone was long gone before they took melee out.

They even had an aspect to buff Melee damage.

Melee was always part of the Hunter fantasy, it just couldn't click well witht he design for a long time.

Pretending otherwise while the Poster Boy Beast Mastery Hunter was rocking axes is just sticking your head in the sand.

lol no..deadzone and melee abilities were removed in cata.

[lmaoboat]

I think BM should have been revamped into the Melee spec, it just makes more sense fighting side by side with your pet. And what's ironic is that Survival actually feels more like a beast master with a close bond with his pet than BM does. Flanking Strike is the definition of fighting in unison with your pet. Survival could have been made into the pure magic damage range spec, using poisons, traps and enchanted ammunition, with less emphasis on the pet, while MM could have been the lone ranger utilizing heavy single target physical damage. There's just so much that they got wrong when they had the chance to do something really really great. They blew it big time.

I'm convinced Titanstrike was going to be the SV artifact, and they changed it early in development. The whole thing with shoving Hati inside it just seemed shoehorned in.

[Trollragemore]

Do you ppl not realize that Rexxar has been retconned into a survival hunter for legion...

[supersnap]

Some problems I have with survival, are 1) mastery is garbage, I am 100% sure that with artifact talents increasing pet haste that this should be working on auto attacks. Not just special attacks. 2) Haste doesn't scale any DoT that we have. 3) Eagle's Bite doesn't crit.

Level 100 tier talents are all bad. The goto talent is expert trapper, and that is just because it gives a flat 75% damage bonus to explosive trap (that doesn't scale with haste or mastery). Spitting Cobra does zero damage, focus isn't a problem.

Aspect of the beast, right now does 1/5th of the damage of flanking strike if you go ferocity. Since mastery only works on special attacks, it may be better to go tenacity for they extra 2 special attacks (charge and thunderstomp), which gives zero bonuses outside of damage reduction for pet. Now with 62% flanking strike buff coming this tuesday, it will only be 1/8th of flanking strike damage.

Sure there are other problems, but these rotation/damage problems seem like something they can easily hotfix where other changes require a bigger patch like 7.1.

Like I went from thinking haste was super pro for survival because of the pet, to now finding out that, 1) auto attacks don't matter, 2) focus regen on the pet is irrelevant because of the 3sec cd on the special attack.

[TheFuse]

The only people excited about having a melee spec forced on them were people who didn't actually play a hunter.

[OcciferGlass]

The only people excited about having a melee spec forced on them were people who didn't actually play a hunter.

Hunter main since vanilla. Loving new Survival which brings variety to the class. Different strokes for different folks.

[Deleted]

Ive played hunter since vanilla.
Theres nothing wrong with survival to be honest. Its a solid spec with great burst damage if lined up properly. The issue with survival as said before is melee is saturated and this only really matters in high end progression as far as im concerned. If you want to play survival and arent on bleeding edge prog. Guild it is fine. Only reason not to take in progression (mythic)is the utility. As in soaking damage etc. Rogues are the kings of this with cloak of shadows. Survival is fine. I am currently leveling as survival its good fun i love being in the lemee with my pet. Just a shame the artifact is a spear and not like a 2h axe or dual axes (like rexxar)

[Makatafinger]

if i could get my surv artifact i'd play it but i cant find the quest. Do you have to do MM one first? If so it is bugged for me and i've been waiting for a ticket response for 5 days -.-

[Firebyrd]

if i could get my surv artifact i'd play it but i cant find the quest. Do you have to do MM one first? If so it is bugged for me and i've been waiting for a ticket response for 5 days -.-

There's no set order for the artifacts. You pick your first, go get that, then a quest becomes available at 102 to get the other two.

[Srg56]

Survival smashes the real hunter specs in damage. They are superior when it comes to utility. No hunter ever said "You should gut one of the classes and make it melee. I totally would play that over a rogue".

Noone is playing it even though it is the top Hunter spec. Players dont need to change perception, designers do. The melee hunter came from nowhere and people say that it is well designed, but still, no one plays it. The spec has failed.

It didn't come out of nowhere, it's just a part of the class identity that was scrapped back in cataclysm. Hunters used to be ranged + having some damage if you got too close. Nowadays they're glorified casters, and that.. thing with the spear, whatever that is.

If they re-revamp surv they will have to change the other two as well, which imo is very much welcome. If they do, i hope they give all specs some melee abilities so that the "class fantasy" meme they keep buzzing around isn't just empty talk.

[Makatafinger]

There's no set order for the artifacts. You pick your first, go get that, then a quest becomes available at 102 to get the other two.

I know, I started as BM. I'm stuck at MM one since level 102 and cant get survival one too.